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Can anyone recommend a wax with short cure time and strong CT/HT?  Is there such a thing?

I'm currently using C-3, Candlescience FO's and HTP wicks.  Zero HT after a month.  So ready to ditch C-3 😅

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Paraffin wax like 4630 or 4627 fit that description. Melt pour cool light.  You get what you get from it 

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1 hour ago, Sarah S said:

Paraffin wax.

I love CW's blends. I have been wanting to get some 4627 to play with though. 😁

 

I tried working with 4627 for a solid year amd no matter how much or how little FO % I used or wick combination, it seemed to throw black soot like crazy. More so than any other wax ive tried. 

 

But the throw on it is next to nothing I have found before or since trying it. Have fun with it if you do get some and let us know how you like it 😬

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There are lots of people who believe in cure times, and lots of people who don't. Personally, I cure for 3 days, but I'm 99.9% certain there's no chemical reactions taking place after the candle completely hardens (~24 hours).

 

As others have recommended, try a wax with paraffin. It should be a sure way to get a throw.

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4627 does throw but it also smokes like crazy, even blended. But the candles smell amazing.

maybe it’s your batch of C3.

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Thank you thank you.  I might just mix C3 with one of the recommendations above.

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8 hours ago, bktolbert said:

There are lots of people who believe in cure times, and lots of people who don't. Personally, I cure for 3 days, but I'm 99.9% certain there's no chemical reactions taking place after the candle completely hardens (~24 hours).

 

As others have recommended, try a wax with paraffin. It should be a sure way to get a throw.

 

May I ask what wax you use?   3 day cure time sounds lovely!!

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56 minutes ago, jfc said:

 

May I ask what wax you use?   3 day cure time sounds lovely!!

I use AAK 415. It is just plain soy wax:

https://www.fillmorecontainer.com/aaks-golden-wax-415-100-soy-formerly-golden-brands.html

 

I am also of the belief that adding fragrance to wax at high temps (150F+) burns off volatile scents, so I add my fo 100-120F. Other people may have luck with higher temps, but this is what works for me. You may want to try doing everything (adding fo, pouring, etc.) as cool as you comfortably can to see if that changes anything.

 

Best of luck!

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On 3/21/2019 at 5:38 PM, jfc said:

Can anyone recommend a wax with short cure time and strong CT/HT?  Is there such a thing?

I'm currently using C-3, Candlescience FO's and HTP wicks.  Zero HT after a month.  So ready to ditch C-3 😅

First let me say that it is possible your problem may not be the wax. It could be a process related problem, or a wicking problem, or even some combination. It could even be that the FOs you picked don’t work well in your wax. As for curing all soy wax needs time to cure. For soy wax curing is the process of crystallization and it is a process that continues for a long time. My first candles were soy and after two weeks they had zero HT, I came across one a year later and the HT was amazingly strong. Lots of people make soy candles that have good HT after two weeks, but the HT will always be better after two months.  I gave up soy because I blamed the wax when the biggest part of my problem was process related. One thing I found is that not stirring enough will kill your HT. If you are fairly new to candle making I highly recommend using a good paraffin wax, I use 4630. Most people do what I did and start with soy, which is harder to learn on. I mostly use a paraffin soy blend now, but I am very confident that I could make good soy candles now, if I wanted to. I learned by reading this board, asking questions, and using the search engine.   

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On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 9:58 PM, bktolbert said:

I use AAK 415. It is just plain soy wax:

https://www.fillmorecontainer.com/aaks-golden-wax-415-100-soy-formerly-golden-brands.html

 

I am also of the belief that adding fragrance to wax at high temps (150F+) burns off volatile scents, so I add my fo 100-120F. Other people may have luck with higher temps, but this is what works for me. You may want to try doing everything (adding fo, pouring, etc.) as cool as you comfortably can to see if that changes anything.

 

Best of luck!

I use 415 and I give mine 24 hrs.

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I'm surprised to see the short cure time on the 415 users. I have melts that I was sure didn't have any throw at all so I sat them aside and tried even after a week with nothing. I just pulled them after 3 mo and they have great throw so I'm not sure what the difference you're doing is. Maybe candle vs melt?? Are you adding any additives to enhance FO?

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I’ve been experimenting with straight pro blend 600 which is soy/ paraffin, almost 50/50 and I poured it in the morning. Because of an immediate super strong cold throw I burned it later that evening. The hot throw was strong as well, sea salt and orchid from c.s. 

My coconut and soy take 2 plus weeks, longer is better from my observations.🌸

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1 hour ago, aptommo said:

I'm surprised to see the short cure time on the 415 users. I have melts that I was sure didn't have any throw at all so I sat them aside and tried even after a week with nothing. I just pulled them after 3 mo and they have great throw so I'm not sure what the difference you're doing is. Maybe candle vs melt?? Are you adding any additives to enhance FO?

I use no additives, melts are strong as well, although, not sure I've tested them at 24hrs, but I certainly don't make them wait.

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ALL waxes will benefit from a cure. For the shortest, go with 100% paraffin.  Doesn't really matter so much which one.  As for the suggestion of adding FO at low temp.....I wouldn't recommend that.

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3 hours ago, aptommo said:

I'm surprised to see the short cure time on the 415 users. I have melts that I was sure didn't have any throw at all so I sat them aside and tried even after a week with nothing. I just pulled them after 3 mo and they have great throw so I'm not sure what the difference you're doing is. Maybe candle vs melt?? Are you adding any additives to enhance FO?

I'm not quite sure what would be moving around/settling inside a melt or candle to make it throw better after 3 mo. if it remains completely solid. But if it worked for you, keep at it! Just stinks that it's so long.

 

1 hour ago, bfroberts said:

ALL waxes will benefit from a cure. For the shortest, go with 100% paraffin.  Doesn't really matter so much which one.  As for the suggestion of adding FO at low temp.....I wouldn't recommend that.

Any reason behind your recommendation against adding FO at low temps? As long as the wax is liquid, it should blend just fine. Additionally, you are minimizing the burn off of volatile scents (albeit it might be negligible, but you're lowering the risk of evaporation). My wax doesn't start hardening until 90F. At 100-120F, it's completely liquid.

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5 hours ago, bktolbert said:

I'm not quite sure what would be moving around/settling inside a melt or candle to make it throw better after 3 mo. if it remains completely solid. But if it worked for you, keep at it! Just stinks that it's so long.

 

Any reason behind your recommendation against adding FO at low temps? As long as the wax is liquid, it should blend just fine. Additionally, you are minimizing the burn off of volatile scents (albeit it might be negligible, but you're lowering the risk of evaporation). My wax doesn't start hardening until 90F. At 100-120F, it's completely liquid.

I am not a scientist, and I don't pretend to know what is going on inside a candle as it cures.  I do know I have used many different wax types, and they all, without fail, will burn somewhat differently at different stages of the cure. Sometimes vastly different.   I didn't say all waxes (or any for that matter) take months to reach the end result, but none of them are cured the moment they've set up.

 

When you meet an FO that won't blend at a low temp, you'll see why.  All this talk about burn-off is really just hogwash.  If an FO burns off in 2 minutes after being added to wax, it's a poor excuse for a fragrance oil.

 

 

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14 hours ago, bktolbert said:

I'm not quite sure what would be moving around/settling inside a melt or candle to make it throw better after 3 mo. if it remains completely solid. But if it worked for you, keep at it! Just stinks that it's so long.

 

Any reason behind your recommendation against adding FO at low temps? As long as the wax is liquid, it should blend just fine. Additionally, you are minimizing the burn off of volatile scents (albeit it might be negligible, but you're lowering the risk of evaporation). My wax doesn't start hardening until 90F. At 100-120F, it's completely liquid.

Soy wax has a crystalline structure. As it cools the molecules begin forming their final structure, but that process continues, although the rate of change slows over time. You can’t see it changing, but it is. A soy candle with very poor HT after two weeks may have very strong HT after six months. Paraffin has a different molecular structure and reaches its final state much faster.   

 

Heat causes the molecules in a substance to move faster, this facilitates the blending of the wax and FO. The goal is to get the wax and FO properly blended on a molecular level, it will require less stirring if the wax is hotter, but I recommend following the manufacture’s guidelines, if you can find them.  

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@Forrest is spot on.  Crystal formation in soy wax is polymorphic, meaning there is no regular size, shape or orientation of the crystals. The crystals form at different rates and in different sizes depending on the temperatures it melts to, and the rate it cools to. Heating until all wax crystals and additives are fully melted and moving around in a nice homogenous blend is a great start to your candle. 

 

Controlling the cool so that the crystals cool into small, regularly sized shapes and sizes helps ensure your candle will have an even amount of FO from top to bottom, and will be smooth and shiny.  The very same wax can be melted and cooled differently and will appear to be entirely different waxes all depending on temps and rates.

 

If not heated enough, and / or cooled large irregular crystals form more so than small regular sized. This gives some soy the grainy look and texture.  Cool soy too slowly and you may be able to stick your finger right through the middle of a finished, aged candle.  The fragrance will be squeezed out around the larger formed crystals. This is where you’ll hear some people describe the lack of scent at the start of a candle called “drift” because the FO seems to the lower parts of the candle by sheer gravity. That pool of liquid lower in the candle might smell momentarily better, though imcreasing odds for a candle flare or fire. 

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Don't get me wrong guys, not EVERY melt has taken that long. Usually I'll get a good HT in a week or so, honestly I don't try it before then to be safe. But there have been occasions now where I thought something just didn't work out and sat it aside in a bin, only to find later that it was great after sitting that long. :blink:

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Incidentally, palm and paraffin (along with all the other botanical waxes) are the same in terms of crystal formation.  The crystal size and shapes of most other waxes, like paraffins, are small and the same shape, think tiny ping pong balls. They are much more stable over time, they “cure” more quickly. Palm waxes grow frost crystals by slow cooling,  that same wax cooled fast is smooth and shiny. 

 

Curing is more than cooling.  Curing is giving those crystals time to form and make bonds with other crystals.  Forrest is right again about time.  A freshly made soy (and soy blend) candle will usually require a different wick than one cured several weeks or months.  I have made this same mistake time and time and time again when rushing through testing. It takes more energy to break well formed bonds therefore more potential for hot throw given time and the larger wick. Well cured, well wicked, well made  candles don’t suddenly turn to slush and subsequently liquid during a typical burn like a freshly made candle can.  Likewise well cured candles wicked appropriately will burn longer and be less likely to soot, carbon, etc. since the wick won’t be flooded with fuel as with a freshly made soy blend candle.

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