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Coconut oil doesn't improve my scent throw


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Based on the internet, I thought coconut oil would improve the throw of my soy candles. However, after testing and testing (and testing), my conclusions are 

  1. any soy candle with more than 20% coconut oil is simply too mushy and takes forever to "dry"
  2. coconut oil does not noticeably improve the throw

 

In fact, I prefer the scents of my all-soy candles to candles with coconut oil. Nonetheless, I will continue to use a small percentage of coconut oil <5% in my candles because it does improve the appearance of tops (makes the hard glaze look of soy smoother/creamier).

 

So, if you're new to candle making like me and are thinking coconut oil is a miracle cure to poor scent throw... don't let your high expectations disappoint you. Some fragrances just aren't meant for soy.

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Thank you for sharing this. Those were similar to my observations.

 

Soybean wax is so unstable on its own that coconut oil only makes things worse.

 

I actually prefer paraffin in soy to Coconut as it is a lot more predictable as well.

 

Did you also find the coconut oil and soy wax makes it more prone to soot?

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I have a coconut wax formula. I have no soot with my candles. The reason to use coconut oil with soy is it’s an all natural alternative paraffin. In all my versions using coconut oil it does help with burn with soy and you get a meltpool faster, which equals faster throw of scent.

Soybean Oil I would never use as it would be prone to rancidity, and soybean oil gone off is yucky.

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1 hour ago, TallTayl said:

Thank you for sharing this. Those were similar to my observations.

 

Soybean wax is so unstable on its own that coconut oil only makes things worse.

 

I actually prefer paraffin in soy to Coconut as it is a lot more predictable as well.

 

Did you also find the coconut oil and soy wax makes it more prone to soot?

At this moment, I can't justify paraffin when there are more sustainable alternatives for the environment.

 

I've not seen a ton of soot in either all-soy or coconut-blended, but my candles without coconut oil have noticeably less carbon buildup.

 

53 minutes ago, NightLight said:

I have a coconut wax formula. I have no soot with my candles. The reason to use coconut oil with soy is it’s an all natural alternative paraffin. In all my versions using coconut oil it does help with burn with soy and you get a meltpool faster, which equals faster throw of scent.

Soybean Oil I would never use as it would be prone to rancidity, and soybean oil gone off is yucky.

You might get a faster throw with coconut oil because of its low melting point, but I don't think it throws better. I actually haven't tested the speed. I usually just test ~1, 2, and 3 hour. Interesting idea!

 

I just wanted to put it out there for new folks that a regular soy candle isn't inferior to a soy candle with coconut oil in terms of smell.

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Are you referring to Coconut Oil?? Or coconut wax??   For fun, I tried blending some coconut oil (is used for cooking, but looks like a wax) with some Millenium soy 20/80.  The tops looked like swiss cheese, although it didn't burn that bad...and I didn't notice any improvement in hot throw.  

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46 minutes ago, Gary in Canada said:

Are you referring to Coconut Oil?? Or coconut wax??  

 

What's the difference?   If you're talking about a 100% coconut product and not one of the many mystery blends currently being marketed as "Coconut wax" ...


You can buy 100% Coconut Wax , a soft, white, solid from Cargill composed of Hydrogenated coconut glycerides" with a MP of appx 90-102 degrees or you can buy Coconut Oil 92, a soft white solid, from a soap supplier like Bulk Apothecary composed of  Hydrogenated coconut glycerides with a MP of appx 92 degrees.   If there's a difference between those 2 products, aside from the name, I can't tell what it is. 

I blend 100%  coconut oil (or wax, if you prefer)  with soy -  the soy used and the ratio of coco:soy take some tweaking to get good results for sure.  It's not a magic bullet.  Too much coco does not a better candle make.

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Hydrogenated coconut oil is NOT a wax and anyone thinking that they can use it to make a candle alone is wrong. All coconut wax candles are blends how you make it or buy it is up to you. Like soy it has its own set of problems of adding too much or less in your blend.

 

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Hydrogenated coconut oil is NOT a wax and anyone thinking that they can use it to make a candle alone is wrong. All coconut wax candles are blends how you make it or buy it is up to you. Like soy it has its own set of problems of adding too much or less in your blend.

 

You can use coconut oil to help your blend burn faster easier. I use if I am stuck between two wicks, for example a wick almost perfect but not reaching edge of glass. Add coconut oil and it can help with that instead of wicking up one size that you know is going to be too big.

 

Coconut oil takes longer to harden. Not mushy just very slow solidifying, well mushy if you have added waaaay to much.

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Here’s where I see the use of “wax” as appropriate... 

 

soy “wax” is simply hydrogenated soy bean oil.  Companies refine and hydrogenate a base “wax” to different degrees for their final end product.  Makes soy “wax” like midwest soy and 415 are kind of terrible without additives, but they are still insidered a “wax”.

 

jojoba oil is technically considered a “wax” though it is a liquid that looks like any other oil on my shelf. 

 

Coconut oil 76 is an oil solid at 76*F or lower.  Coconut 92 is partially hydrogenated to raise the melt point to 92*F or thereabouts. The food industry calls it an oil or a wax for whatever end purpose they have, but that does not mean it will perform like other hydrogenated oils.

 

coconut oil 92 - I totally agree - is terrible alone as a modern container candle fuel. It’s not durable for the end product “we” think of in a “solid” wax container candle and would need to be described very differently to end customers to set expectations. Though when you think about it, olive oil and other liquids are candle fuels around the globe and have been for thousands of years. 

 

When adding coconut 92 to soy “wax” a lot of unpredictable things can happen. American Soy suggested adding 10% “high melt coconut” to improve the throw of their midwest soy wax product.  Result: kind of a messy candle.  That naked wax is not designed to hold that much oil so it leaked. I suppose I Could go down the rabbit hole of additives to stabilize, but “why”? 

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  • 1 year later...
22 minutes ago, Johnnylaw said:

I have a semi-related question. I use a coco-soy blend. Will adding coconut oil help with the HT at all or would it just be a redundancy?

It may be helpful, or it may create a totally new set of problems. 
 

coconut oil is no magic ingredient.

 

most issues with HT are wick related, FO related, or a combo.

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The coco-soy already has coconut oil in it. Adding plain coconut oil, even the 92F oil, is going to make the overall blend softer and lower its melt point. I would say it's redundant.

Instead, if you're using a pre-blended soy (with additives) in your own coco-soy blend, try switching to a different soy. I've had noticeable differences when swapping 464/444/C3 soy for "virgin" soy in my palm-soy blends. Sometimes, the additives in the ready-to-pour soys don't pair well or are incompatible with non-soy ingredients such as coconut oil, palm wax, palm oil, beeswax, etc.

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  • 1 year later...

Hello, 

 

I am not sure anyone will comment as it's now 2022. 

 

So here is my question, do the properties of hydrogenated coconut vs unhydrogented coconut have any differences other than melting point difference? Ordinary cooking coconut oil has a slight smell, where as coconut wax is hydrogenated meaning has additional hydrogen in its chain and doesn't give off a slight coconut scent. 

 

For improving hot throw is there one that works better or are they both the same. 

 

And another question, there is also fractioned coconut oil, made by heating coconut oil to high temperatures, waiting for oil to cool and when it cools it seperate into solids on top liquid on bottom. Well that liquid is called fractioned coconut oil. Sigh. 

 

I am making candles with eos only and I am trying to improve hot throw. I read on the internet (so it must be true) that fractioned coconut inhibits smell, and that coconut wax has great hot throw. These two addatives are seemingly the same so they seem contradicting to me. 

 

Does any one here know what all the differences are for the three types of coconut products. 

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58 minutes ago, Lanakay said:

Hello, 

 

I am not sure anyone will comment as it's now 2022. 

 

So here is my question, do the properties of hydrogenated coconut vs unhydrogented coconut have any differences other than melting point difference? Ordinary cooking coconut oil has a slight smell, where as coconut wax is hydrogenated meaning has additional hydrogen in its chain and doesn't give off a slight coconut scent. 

 

For improving hot throw is there one that works better or are they both the same. 

 

And another question, there is also fractioned coconut oil, made by heating coconut oil to high temperatures, waiting for oil to cool and when it cools it seperate into solids on top liquid on bottom. Well that liquid is called fractioned coconut oil. Sigh. 

 

I am making candles with eos only and I am trying to improve hot throw. I read on the internet (so it must be true) that fractioned coconut inhibits smell, and that coconut wax has great hot throw. These two addatives are seemingly the same so they seem contradicting to me. 

 

Does any one here know what all the differences are for the three types of coconut products. 

Too much of that question relies on what you are starting with and the problem(s) the additive is trying to fix. 
 

every brand of coconut 76 (ordinary coconut that is solid at typical room temp) I’ve ever bought is different. I use it in soap products and am amazed at the differences from drum to drum.  Some I have is “wetter” than others and just plain won’t burn.  Coconut 92 degree (partially hydrogenated) can burn “better” that wet coco76, but does little to nothing to improve burn or Ht in waxes that don’t need the additive. It had created new problems in waxes that didn’t need it - like pooling and seepage.  Coconut 92 might help keep some waxes in a solid/semi solid state for longer because of that 16 degree difference in melt point. fractionated is liquid at room temp and will cause other issues in waxes that can’t hold that much liquid oil (premature melt, weeping, seeping, instability during temp changes such as in shipping to customers). 

 

coconut oil is not a magic hot throw bullet. Nor is any other oil, hydrogenated oil or other additive. It all depends on what you are starting with. Candle wax is a VERY complex product.
 

If your burn is otherwise good, HT can be tweaked to a degree with a wick series change. Every EO needs something different to perform to its best. I’ve had noticeable improvements, for instance, using CDN vs CD wicks in many waxes. Same wick different chemical treatment. 


I wish the wax manufacturers would produce the super and mostly reliable candle waxes from just a few years ago. 2016 marked a big turning point for most of us.  Waxes became unusable for so many of us, yet we are just expected to buy more, pay more, and suffer silently. There was no accountability, and problematic waxes led to many dangerous candles released to the public by makers who didn’t know any better.

 

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On 4/7/2022 at 9:08 AM, TallTayl said:

Too much of that question relies on what you are starting with and the problem(s) the additive is trying to fix. 
 

every brand of coconut 76 (ordinary coconut that is solid at typical room temp) I’ve ever bought is different. I use it in soap products and am amazed at the differences from drum to drum.  Some I have is “wetter” than others and just plain won’t burn.  Coconut 92 degree (partially hydrogenated) can burn “better” that wet coco76, but does little to nothing to improve burn or Ht in waxes that don’t need the additive. It had created new problems in waxes that didn’t need it - like pooling and seepage.  Coconut 92 might help keep some waxes in a solid/semi solid state for longer because of that 16 degree difference in melt point. fractionated is liquid at room temp and will cause other issues in waxes that can’t hold that much liquid oil (premature melt, weeping, seeping, instability during temp changes such as in shipping to customers). 

 

coconut oil is not a magic hot throw bullet. Nor is any other oil, hydrogenated oil or other additive. It all depends on what you are starting with. Candle wax is a VERY complex product.
 

If your burn is otherwise good, HT can be tweaked to a degree with a wick series change. Every EO needs something different to perform to its best. I’ve had noticeable improvements, for instance, using CDN vs CD wicks in many waxes. Same wick different chemical treatment. 


I wish the wax manufacturers would produce the super and mostly reliable candle waxes from just a few years ago. 2016 marked a big turning point for most of us.  Waxes became unusable for so many of us, yet we are just expected to buy more, pay more, and suffer silently. There was no accountability, and problematic waxes led to many dangerous candles released to the public by makers who didn’t know any better.

 

@TallTayl

Thank you for the reply. I am trying to solve the hot throw issue for my candles primarily but also tunnelling and wick size.  So too many problems I suppose. 

 

I have 2 containers and both tunnel or mush room with the htp wicks, the containers are 3 and 3.5 inches and htp 1312 they mushroom and 126 there is tunneling, htp12 12 doesn't work either.  I tried a store bought blend bw917 which has  soy coconut bees was and it burned soooo nicely melting everything to the edges even without the pool going all the way to the edge becasue the wax was softer. I contacted supplier and they couldn't tell me the percent coconut as its proprietary but gave me a ball park that it's less than 20 percent coconut. This is why I decided to try to blend my own soy with coconut oil (not coconut wax and I am not sure if there is a difference blending wax vs coconurnoil). To help with the tunnelling and the hot throw. the soy only candles doesn't produce any hot throw at 7 or 10 e. O. percent. I am only using essential oils and I amm adding them under 140 as to not burn them. 

 

I guess the wick is not creating a warm enough pool for the scent. Or there are other factors I am not aware off as a newbie. 

 

I guess i am doing too many things at once and I should test other wick sizes and other wick series. What series should I try for a coconut soy blend?

 

The reason I wanted to blend myself is I assumed thought that if I did 30 percent coconut it would improve the hot throw. 

Thanks

Lana

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There are many moving parts to your candle design from the post above.

 

adding fragrance (including essential oil) to a soy wax at low temps often introduces issues like sinking, pooling and drift.  I’ve dug down into soy based candles made with lower mixing temps and found “wetness” in the lower parts, or seeping, or droplets. this creates a potential fire hazard and potential  “flashing over” situation when the candle burns lower in the container. Flashing over is when the surface of a candle catches fire. It is an immediate fail according to the ASTM which publishes safety standards for our industry. 
 

I too use essential oils and don’t do anything different when mixing into any of my waxes.  Palm needs temps in excess of 200*F, as do most coconut blends, so temp is not an issue with “good” oils. I use as little as 5-6% essential oils in my coconut blends and can have room filling fragrance when the right wick is used. When a wax is cooled to 140, then fragrance is added there’s a quick temp drop in that blend that can impair how the wax crystals form.
 

Not all essential oils burn the same, or are suitable for candles.  Essential oils high in eugenol, for instance, will require a humongous wick just to burn regardless of the wax. Lavender usually needs much less.  Patchouli is a big wicker upper. The answer to the hard to burn aromachemicals (which includes essential oils) is usually lower %.


Wicks. I personally never had luck with HTP.  With more acidic wax blends and wick smothering fragrances, CD or actually CDN are usually much more effective.  Premier 700 series wicks have been wonderful lately  in many of my soy-containing blends. They’re burning bright, clean and true even multi wicked in larger ceramic containers in all sorts of blends.  
 

Sometimes wicking down will solve hang up and melt pool issues.  If the flame does not struggle or smother out, a smaller wick  will have time to melt more wax before gobbling up the liquid wax fuel into the flame. This gives time for hang up to clear and for more delicate aromachemicals to show up.

 

melt behavior: often if truly “tunneling”, meaning leaving a shell all the way to the bottom regardless of how long the candle was lit on an otherwise decent burning candle, you may benefit from a “flux”. A flux modifies how a material melts and flows.  Look up  the term, and see how it applies in many industries from plumbing to glass making to ceramics. This is how some people are benefitting from adding coconut oils, paraffins, etc. without understanding why. In some cases the coconut oil combined with the wax,fragrance,and other ambient conditions are hitting a sweet spot and stumbling into better performance.  Sometimes, though, the flux creates havoc in warmer weather (which is coming for those who ship or sell at outdoor venues). If not careful that coconut oil will cause a candle to seep and pool.

 

a flux can slightly modify how the wax molecules are slipping around each other to more easily melt together.  Too much flux and you’ll end up with a puddle of melted wax in your container as the candle warms the container and contents. 
 

many people counterbalance the excess pooling with a gel making ingredient like beeswax. Often they don’t understand why it works, so will add too much which creates the need for more flux until you’re playing a losing game of soften and gel. Some people try to use polymers like polyboost or vybar.  Both hold seeping in suspension like a glue, which will bind fragrance too tightly preventing that throw. 
 

making a wax from scratch is an art alongside a science. I’ve burned some wonderful coconut oil beeswax home made blends during winter months that completely failed with all capital letters as soon as ambient temps got above 72*F. Voluspa, for one, uses coconut oil and beeswax.  It’s right on their safety documents. The first voluspa candle I lit I was totally enamored. The second burn the thing was totally liquid and the wicks tipped over.  One arrived completely softened and blobbed to one side of the jar. It’s hard for even the big brands to get it right. If you’re going to blend your own, then do yourself a huge favor and test extensively  for several months through different ambient conditions to make sure that the candles created in winter months don’t become a safety hazard in warmer months.

 

look into cosmetic products, like lipsticks, for hints as to how you can improve a blend to perform well in your conditions.  I read through formulas and patents for key information when blending for myself and for clients. Sometimes I get lucky.  Sometimes not, but I always learn something in the process. 

 

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30 per cent is way too much. That candle will be a mess in warm weather. If you have only tried one wick series, a change in wick can be dramatic. Get some CDs and test. Regarding coconut oil, not al waxes like it. Some you can do more than others.It can affect the burn but I found it can affect the tops from solidifying nicely.

I had a formula with soy coconut but used a special stearin and the candles were great but due to palm embargo that stearic has disappeared for two years.

The answer may be don’t use eo’s if you aren’t getting throw. They are not designed for candles.

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