Fast, Cheap, Good. Pick Two

[TallTayl]

When entering a new venture you have loads of choices to make. When reading forums and Facebook groups we often read comments asking for shortcuts so people don’t “waste supplies.” I get it.  New hobbies are often expensive. Nothing, though, is worth more than the experience gained from simple trial and error with a little research and understanding sprinkled in. As you understand your medium future endeavors become quicker and often more affordable. 

 

Fast and Cheap. Potentially costs in quality. This may fit your business model well if “good enough” gets you where you want to go.

 

Fast and Good. This one costs more money. Short timelines mean more up front spending for materials to test on a short time line. 

 

Cheap and Good. This costs more time. Slow and steady can win the race. 

 

pick your poison. What do you think?

[Shari]

I so agree with you.  I've been recently seeing so many new folks that have been making soap for 3 months and have already gone full fledged into selling and think they know it all on another forum.   It absolutely makes me crazy.   Can't tell them any different.   I avoid those folk like the plague as they already know it all and have an amazing product.  

 

I too well over a year of making soap and B&B products and a lot of money before starting to sell.  But so worth it in the end.

[iansmommaya]

I started to ignore them online a good while ago and now in person if someone asks me rude questions like where do you get so and so I say something like "I have various sources for all my ingredients." if they persist I say "I grind the bones and under moonlight I pray to the Goddesses for good customers."

[Sponiebr]

56 minutes ago, iansmommaya said:

I started to ignore them online a good while ago and now in person if someone asks me rude questions like where do you get so and so I say something like "I have various sources for all my ingredients." if they persist I say "I grind the bones and under moonlight I pray to the Goddesses for good customers."

I'd look'm dead in the eye, and say "Liposuction clinics. I got the idea from a movie I saw..." 

GTFOH! 

ETA: 

In all fairness I DO tell them I find whoever has the LOWEST price on the internet or retail store at the time I need the materials and WHOEVER that is gets my business. Basically whatever or whoever is on sale THAT week. 

And THAT's the honest to God truth. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Sponiebr

[TallTayl]

I’m one that probably sells too quickly in some cases. I liken a LOT to man hours spent learning.  

 

For instance, when I took up pottery a few years back, I was approached by quite a few people who “had been doing pottery for years.” What they meant was they took a class once or twice over the course of a few years. I usually dive headlong into something before I know why not to and spent more time learning than they had even touched clay. Who actually “knows” more? Hard to evaluate.

 

soap people who make one batch a week for a year will in all likelihood progress more slowly than someone who makes 5 batches a day to master the craft. 

 

Its all relative.  

 

In the end, some folks have more or less aptitude.  Those with more aptitude (skill/talent/understanding/ whatever) will probably be “ready” sooner while some masters who’ve been at the same thing for decades are still not ready. 

 

All I know is a lot of business comes down to luck.  The harder I work, the luckier I get. 

[chevcher]

I used to be so helpful on the forums... Then, one day I realized that some folks just did not want to do their homework at all .
 I think they love the idea of quitting their job to stay home and make candles / BB products and get rich,  if only it was that easy right ? 
 It just baffles my mind 😖 
 

[TallTayl]

2 minutes ago, chevcher said:

I used to be so helpful on the forums... Then, one day I realized that some folks just did not want to do their homework at all .
 I think they love the idea of quitting their job to stay home and make candles / BB products and get rich,  if only it was that easy right ? 
 It just baffles my mind 😖 
 

Those who truly want to quit will. Those who are all tawk won’t. 😉

 

 

[jerry]

Things are often much easier looking than they appear. I am reminded every day of this fact as I cruise past all my wick testers lol. And geez, we have the cleanest hands on the block - anyone need any soap?

[TallTayl]

15 minutes ago, jerry said:

Things are often much easier looking than they appear. I am reminded every day of this fact as I cruise past all my wick testers lol. And geez, we have the cleanest hands on the block - anyone need any soap?

Oh man I’m going through something similar now.  I figured how hard could it be doing a horse hair wrap on hammered copper wire? I mangled the ends but learned a lot. Like how my vision and dexterity aren’t what they used to be ha ha Ha ha ha 

 

[iansmommaya]

2 hours ago, Sponiebr said:

I'd look'm dead in the eye, and say "Liposuction clinics. I got the idea from a movie I saw..." 

GTFOH! 

ETA: 

In all fairness I DO tell them I find whoever has the LOWEST price on the internet or retail store at the time I need the materials and WHOEVER that is gets my business. Basically whatever or whoever is on sale THAT week. 

And THAT's the honest to God truth. 

 

 

I'm purchasing ingredints today and doing exactly that.  Hmmmmmm.... so and so is charging more per pound for cucumber hydrosol, so and so has rose hydrosol for sale! into the cart it goes!

[iansmommaya]

My personal pet peeve, fine, ONE of my pet peeves is when people who just joined a forum and start asking what our favorite, best, cheapest, etc. source for so and so is. A**HOLE, at least contribute SOMETHING first. Grease the wheel SOME.

oy.

[jerry]

5 hours ago, TallTayl said:

 I figured how hard could it be doing a horse hair wrap on hammered copper wire? I

I think that horse head looks pretty darn cool!!! 

[Paintguru]

21 hours ago, TallTayl said:

I’m one that probably sells too quickly in some cases. I liken a LOT to man hours spent learning.  

 

For instance, when I took up pottery a few years back, I was approached by quite a few people who “had been doing pottery for years.” What they meant was they took a class once or twice over the course of a few years. I usually dive headlong into something before I know why not to and spent more time learning than they had even touched clay. Who actually “knows” more? Hard to evaluate.

 

soap people who make one batch a week for a year will in all likelihood progress more slowly than someone who makes 5 batches a day to master the craft. 

 

Its all relative.  

 

In the end, some folks have more or less aptitude.  Those with more aptitude (skill/talent/understanding/ whatever) will probably be “ready” sooner while some masters who’ve been at the same thing for decades are still not ready. 

 

All I know is a lot of business comes down to luck.  The harder I work, the luckier I get. 

 

True, but the other side of the coin is being paralyzed into never selling because you don't want to sell an imperfect product.  I feel like there is a bare minimum threshold one needs to get their product to before it can be released into the wild.  While you get feedback on that product, you can fine tune it over time while, in parallel, growing your customer base, story, etc.  In other words, you can't find luck if you don't put yourself out there at some point.

[Crafty1_AJ]

On ‎3‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 1:54 PM, TallTayl said:

I’m one that probably sells too quickly in some cases. I liken a LOT to man hours spent learning.  

 

For instance, when I took up pottery a few years back, I was approached by quite a few people who “had been doing pottery for years.” What they meant was they took a class once or twice over the course of a few years. I usually dive headlong into something before I know why not to and spent more time learning than they had even touched clay. Who actually “knows” more? Hard to evaluate.

 

soap people who make one batch a week for a year will in all likelihood progress more slowly than someone who makes 5 batches a day to master the craft. 

 

Its all relative.  

 

In the end, some folks have more or less aptitude.  Those with more aptitude (skill/talent/understanding/ whatever) will probably be “ready” sooner while some masters who’ve been at the same thing for decades are still not ready. 

 

All I know is a lot of business comes down to luck.  The harder I work, the luckier I get. 

 

Agreed.  I am a born researcher and love to learn new stuff.  Then after I do my homework, I dive in headlong and wholeheartedly into practicing.  I work my butt off.  We must be twins separated at birth.  Except for that whole age difference thing.   

[CandleRush]

I love your post talltayl!

Im surprised by some comments though about working hard to get where you are so on and so on and how you want to guard your experience and not wanting to share everything. Of course that’s your right. Maybe I’m an over sharer then. I’ve given recipes to anyone who asks and if they succeed using my recipe great. That’s a refection on me. I look at it this way, we are meant to help each other out, there is plenty to go around for everyone. That newbie who asks still has to do the work, he or she will soon discover learning something new takes time. Since I joined this forum, my first ever at 64 years old I’ve learned loads and while most here share freely with great advice, it’s me putting in the work.

If you look under the General Discussion label it clearly says, ask questions, get answers. That’s what a forum is, I thought. Don’t be afraid to share your knowledge willingly, it will come back to you in a good way. 🌸

[Shari]

@CandleRush - I disagree.   I have put in years of time, energy and money.  I'm not just handing over my recipes.  Would I share a basic recipe or give a starting point? Absolutely.

 

If someone posts a recipe and asks for feedback I will give the best advice and suggestions I possibly can.  Why would I give someone my particular recipe when I did all the research and testing?  

 

I will share suppliers, feedback on recipes and help if fixes are needed if I can.   I would never go into a forum saying hey, I need a recipe.  Do you realize how many new folks start selling after their first or second batches.    

 

Is my recipe all that special, maybe not, I'm  sure many have something very similar.  But, it's mine.  It's poor form to just ask for a recipe.   Tell me what you've done and put into it so far then I'm more than happy to help.   I make soap, B&B products.    

[CandleRush]

I feel we may have hyjacked the original post by ,talltayl, which I thought was excellent but here goes!

I appreciate your views.

Everyone has their own opinion and ways of doing things for sure and that makes it interesting.

It’s true we can’t assume everyone is working as hard as we do. But really that does not matter cause their lack of work does not keep me from working hard.

If I have a talent and worked hard to get there I’d rather share it. I’m not afraid of someone stealing or copying my methods. 

I look at it like this, two people make a cake using the same recipe, both cakes turn out completely differently. 

Im just not guarded I guess.

I personally gain more when I give. 

I do believe it’s possible for someone to sell after a few short months, heck we all learn differently, how can you be sure that person did not do the work? I wish I was that person, but I love the process and journey too much and I love knowledge more!

There are some amazing people here loads of wisdom, generous.

At the same time I’ve also noticed a level of anger, and candle snobbery in this forum that I never anticipated, why, I just don’t get it. 

In the end, maybe forums are not my cup of tea! 

 

peace🌸

 

[TallTayl]

@CandleRush please stick around. I enjoy reading your perspective. 

 

We all can share as much or little as we want - and we can do so kindly.  A  few people met through forums are closer to me than my own blood family.  Those relationships are priceless. We talk every single day.  People are real.

 

Every little pearl posted teaches us a little. Those who are inclined to do the research and work for the sake of learning will pick up every little nugget along the way and turn it into something. Having had more “failures” than I care to count, I’m a heck of a lot smarter than I was even a year ago. I don’t share current formulas either -  I will share things learned along the way. Nothing personal,  often my current formula isn’t “all that” in the end. I gotta get through it to understand WHY first. It’s an artistic process. 

 

One reason not to share *all* that I witness every day is unscrupulous people who gather up recipes and sell them as “their own”. Peruse etsy. I was curious once and bought this amazing bubble bar recipe for the bargain price of $20. It was the exact same recipe I had from many years ago sold as their own sweat and tears. Whatevs, they took the time to make it pretty and save people some research. The Dish forum had Hoovers sucking up recipes they turned around and sold in books for a pretty penny. Turns out those recipes were waaaay out of date since we had all moved forward with the times. The reviews reflected that so justice in the end. 

 

You are right about the cake, different hands, different ingredient sources, different ingredient lots, different tools, etc. make for a very different end product. Heck, look at all the variances in C1 candles in other threads right now.  We all open the cases of the same product and yet have vastly different candles in the end. We are all learning. That is why I keep at this. I love learning for the sake of learning.

 

Share what you are comfortable sharing and no worries about things you don’t care to share. It’s all good. We can do so without coming across as defensive. we all probably picked up our current bag of tricks from someone we read on a forum somewhere. 

 

Peace. 🦄 and a unicorn. ❤️

[CandleRush]

I’m grateful for your reply, as always insightful. And you are correct in saying each of us can choose or not to choose what we share, certainly no pressure. 

All good!

Love the copper wire work. I have a box full of copper too! Hammering copper blank bracelets is lots of fun if you haven’t tried!🌸

 

 

[iansmommaya]

19 hours ago, CandleRush said:

I love your post talltayl!

Im surprised by some comments though about working hard to get where you are so on and so on and how you want to guard your experience and not wanting to share everything. Of course that’s your right. Maybe I’m an over sharer then. I’ve given recipes to anyone who asks and if they succeed using my recipe great. That’s a refection on me. I look at it this way, we are meant to help each other out, there is plenty to go around for everyone. That newbie who asks still has to do the work, he or she will soon discover learning something new takes time. Since I joined this forum, my first ever at 64 years old I’ve learned loads and while most here share freely with great advice, it’s me putting in the work.

If you look under the General Discussion label it clearly says, ask questions, get answers. That’s what a forum is, I thought. Don’t be afraid to share your knowledge willingly, it will come back to you in a good way. 🌸

 

Well, I do work hard. I don't have a partner, husband or helper supporting my butt. If I spend a grand on supplies and testing and fees and marketing ideas that work or fail, I'm not holding someones hand to show them the way so they can directly compete with me without working for it. I make hard competition and this is my livelihood.

 

I'll give general you a soap formula, or the ingredients to make the best soap. Olive oil, lye and water, but I'm not telling (general) you everything else I do to make that soap special. I'll do general stuff, but not specifics.

 

I've seen to many people burned sharing formulas and ideas with friends, online or in person.

[Shari]

I hope you didn't think I was being mean or angry, because that wasn't my intent at all.  I was just stating my personal point of view as were you.   I just explained why I felt that way.   We are all entitled to share as much or as little as we choose.   Just because I don't agree with you is no reason to leave.  I won't agree with someone because that's what they want to hear. Just not my nature.   Also, the way someone writes it and someone reads may not be the same.   So on the interwebs there's a bit of disadvantage in translation sometimes.

[TallTayl]

16 minutes ago, iansmommaya said:

 

I'll give general you a soap formula, or the ingredients to make the best soap. Olive oil, lye and water, but I'm not telling (general) you everything else I do to make that soap special. I'll do general stuff, but not specifics.

This is an interesting snippet for another reason... each of the individual ingredients in my production soap formula are absolutely loathed by other Soapers for one reason or another 🤷🏻‍♀️ Works for me, and I spose that is all that matters...

 

What an oil brings to the whole may or may not be all that to someone else. Every story is just an anecdote. Believe what makes sense. 

 

As for sharing my formula, most all will absolutly hate how it works or comes out without knowing the process, including temps, timing, etc. You can read an ingredient label and guesstimate proportions based on order of ingredients, but that really does not mean much, does it?  the same formula will turn out many different ways during the same soaping session just by fluctuations in temperatures. Experience leads how to roll with it to not waste ingredients. 

[TallTayl]

Gonna overshare a little. It’s humbling. And infuriating... because I am not making headway.

 

I’ve wanted to learn how to electroform items in copper ever since I knew it was a thing. A decade of Wonder I spose I long enough to prove I’m really interested.  This year I decided to dive in. Why not? I watched every you tube channel, read every blog. Studied. Bought formulas. Bought kit materials. Made the initial equipment and chemical investments thinking it is all spelled out for me. Look out world! Guess what? Everything, I mean everything has been a massive fail.

 

Went back to square 1 several times to troubleshoot and I’m getting worse results instead of better. Would have been far cheaper to buy a few pieces of things I liked than following this rabbit hole. 

 

So, not only soap amd candles are expensive and challenging. We are not alone. 

[iansmommaya]

2 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

This is an interesting snippet for another reason... each of the individual ingredients in my production soap formula are absolutely loathed by other Soapers for one reason or another 🤷🏻‍♀️ Works for me, and I spose that is all that matters...

 

What an oil brings to the whole may or may not be all that to someone else. Every story is just an anecdote. Believe what makes sense. 

 

As for sharing my formula, most all will absolutly hate how it works or comes out without knowing the process, including temps, timing, etc. You can read an ingredient label and guesstimate proportions based on order of ingredients, but that really does not mean much, does it?  the same formula will turn out many different ways during the same soaping session just by fluctuations in temperatures. Experience leads how to roll with it to not waste ingredients. 

 

 

I agree. I'll give an example of what I see when I look at a ingredient label. Now, I am making a couple of educated assumptions. First that this company is telling the truth,  I don't know them, have never bought from them but they are on the google listing for face oil. An easy thing to use as an example.

 

So full ingredient listing,

Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil*, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil*, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil*, Linum Usitatissimum (Linseed) Seed Oil*, Capric/Caprylic Triglyceride, Citrus Aurantium Amara (Bitter Orange) Leaf/Twig Oil, Pelargonium Graveolens (Rose Geranium) Flower Oil, Tocopherol, Anthemis Nobilis (Roman Chamomile) Flower Oil, Iris Pallida (Sweet Iris) Leaf Cell Extract, Narcissus Poeticus (Poet’S Daffodil) Flower Extract, Vaccinium Macrocarpon (Cranberry) Seed Oil, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Oil*, Borago Officinalis (Starflower) Seed Oil*, Oenothera Biennis (Evening Primrose) Oil*, Citronellol, Linalool, Geraniol, Limonene, Citral.

 

Now I don't mess around with the Linalool, Geraniol, et al if I'm use E.O's then I'm using E.O's not the chemical extractions of E.O's so ignore that. I assume uh what ever company this is goes with the IFRA usage rates of E.O's, but there ingredients are actually pretty cheap. I don't see that they are organic, wild harvested, handmade at all. I know some about this product but not everything. I know a list of ingredients from most to least, I assume for these purposes they've listed them all, I have no reason to think they haven't.

[iansmommaya]

6 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Gonna overshare a little. It’s humbling. And infuriating... because I am not making headway.

 

I’ve wanted to learn how to electroform items in copper ever since I knew it was a thing. A decade of Wonder I spose I long enough to prove I’m really interested.  This year I decided to dive in. Why not? I watched every you tube channel, read every blog. Studied. Bought formulas. Bought kit materials. Made the initial equipment and chemical investments thinking it is all spelled out for me. Look out world! Guess what? Everything, I mean everything has been a massive fail.

 

Went back to square 1 several times to troubleshoot and I’m getting worse results instead of better. Would have been far cheaper to buy a few pieces of things I liked than following this rabbit hole. 

 

So, not only soap amd candles are expensive and challenging. We are not alone. 

 

I did silver smithing for a while, metal work in general is expensive. ❤️