Pricing?

[kfintoni]

I know pricing is always talked about on here and I have read them all. With the increase in the USPS shipping rates recently I was going through my pricing breakdowns and was curious if anyone was willing to share their cost breakdowns. I am torn with pricing and using the cost of the materials per candle or if ordered in bulk if that makes any sense. I am just curious if I am in the right ball park on how I am doing y pricing and I know everyone is a bit different with demographics and cost of shipping. For me everything has to be shipped as the only supplier of candle supplies that is local is crazy overpriced. I did though find a local supplier of wax so that is a bonus. Here goes, here is a breakdown of pricing on a 16 oz mason jar:

Jar:    .90

Lid:    .65

Wax for 14 oz:   1.40

Wick:   .103

Fragrance using 2.00 an oz average:  2.02

Label:  .04

Warning Label:  .04

Label Ink:  .01

 

So my cost is $5.16  I retail them for $16.00 at markets and $15.95 on the web site. They wholesale for: $9.75 for one case or $9.00 for two or more cases.  The reason I ask is I regularly check out other candle makers prices, not including the big box candles, and am curious on some of their pricing either too low or too high. I have talked with many of my market customers and they think my pricing is fair for my area. 

 

Thanks, Karen in MA

 

[Trappeur]

I believe your pricing is fair and like you said considering what your market area will sell for, so I think your pricing is fair.  Now I wouldn't reduce your price down to 9.00 a case just because they are ordering 2 or more cases because if you are selling wholesale that store is going to mark up your candles 2 times the wholesale cost.   Why should they reap the benefits and make their markup and you make less?   Business is business.   It's always been hard for me too to figure out if my prices are fair and if the store is capable of selling that product at what I know they are going to. o  I calculate my wholesale costs as you do.   And don't forget that where is the labor on your cost sheet?   I do the same thing.   Isn't our time worth money?   I just figure that part comes out of the profit I make on each candle as your dealing in volume.  But bottom line is I think your costing out your goods right but definitely (well I wouldn't) cut your price down even further just because they are ordering more.    Your pricing is more than fair now. 

 

Trappeur

[Paintguru]

While I'm still just starting, most of the suggestions I've seen is 2x for wholesale and 4x for retail.  This seems to be along the lines of what you're marking your candles.  I guess you need to learn your market and customers to see what they can accept.  

[kfintoni]

6 minutes ago, Paintguru said:

While I'm still just starting, most of the suggestions I've seen is 2x for wholesale and 4x for retail.  This seems to be along the lines of what you're marking your candles.  I guess you need to learn your market and customers to see what they can accept.  

I tried the 4 x and I just cannot get $20 for a 16 oz candle around here. There are so many other candle makers around me. I also personally would not pay $20 for a 16 oz myself though I see so many people charging that for an 8 oz jelly jar candle and it blows my mind. Maybe in some kind of custom fancy jar/vessel but not a jelly jar.

 

Karen in MA

[Jcandleattic]

18 minutes ago, kfintoni said:

I tried the 4 x and I just cannot get $20 for a 16 oz candle around here. There are so many other candle makers around me. I also personally would not pay $20 for a 16 oz myself though I see so many people charging that for an 8 oz jelly jar candle and it blows my mind. Maybe in some kind of custom fancy jar/vessel but not a jelly jar.

 

Karen in MA

It really does depend on the market you are selling in and what they will accept. 

 

My market accepts a price of $22 for a 16oz apothecary jar, and I sell out more often than not in my markets at that prices, so that's what I sell them at. I could probably even get away with $25, but why push it? I don't want to feel like I am price gouging. 

 

Would *I* pay $22 or $25 for a 16oz candle?

If I didn't make them, and that's what the market average was, yeah, probably I would. But again, it's what the market in my area dictates the price should be for that sized candle. 

[Laura C]

Hi @kfintoni. You mentioned shipping but didn't list the shipping cost and don't forget about packaging for shipping and like @Trappeur said, your time/labor is worth something too. I take it you don't use dye. 

[Trappeur]

I think she might have been talking about shipping from the suppliers.   But she should already have that included in her cost of supplies is what I'm thinking.   But yes, definitely, if she has to ship to her accounts, that certainly has to be applied at the end.   

 

Trappeur

[Quentin]

9 hours ago, kfintoni said:

I have talked with many of my market customers and they think my pricing is fair for my area. 

Then I would say you are doing it the right way.

 

9 hours ago, kfintoni said:

I did though find a local supplier of wax so that is a bonus.

That is a BIG bonus. I wish I was in the same situation.

 

8 hours ago, Trappeur said:

And don't forget that where is the labor on your cost sheet?

I'm still trying to figure out a practical way to do this. I've put together a "Production Sheet" with fill in the blanks and check off boxes for every step of making my candles. It works for containers, pillars and anything else and even includes the time it takes me to prepare the wax for the melt. I time every step in the process, with a stopwatch. I've broken it down into roughly 3 sections: 1) Wax prep time: This is the time it takes me to break down X number of ounces of hard paraffin or any other wax and throw it in the melt pot. 2) Melt & Pour. This section is the bulk of the entire process. I start timing this section from the minute I put the pot on the heat source. While that is heating up, I engage in things that apply to the candle I'm making (lubing the mold, wicking, heating the jars, measuring out the dye and fragrance). Since I'm doing this while waiting for the wax to heat up, no extra labor time applies. I set these parts aside and attend to stirring the wax and bringing it up to the right temperature to add the dye and fragrance. Meanwhile, while waiting for the wax to cool to pour temp., I can do things like start the clean up process. During all this, the stopwatch is working automatically for me. When I finish pouring, I hit the stopwatch. That is the end of section 2).     3) Second pour or top off: Whichever may apply to what I'm making, including any time I might have to spend with the heat gun. 

 

This may all seem a little anal retentive, but I'm getting more done in less time. It may seem a little robotic. In fact, each time I use the sheet, I seem to get a little better with the whole process and find that I'm paying more attention to proper temperatures. It's really just an elaborate checklist, but it works. I scan the sheet and post it here if anyone wants to see it. Actually, I'll scan it and post it here anyway. 

[kfintoni]

2 hours ago, Laura C said:

Hi @kfintoni. You mentioned shipping but didn't list the shipping cost and don't forget about packaging for shipping and like @Trappeur said, your time/labor is worth something too. I take it you don't use dye. 

Shipping is already included in the price breakdown of supplies. 

 

Karen in MA

[kfintoni]

25 minutes ago, Quentin said:

Then I would say you are doing it the right way.

 

That is a BIG bonus. I wish I was in the same situation.

 

I'm still trying to figure out a practical way to do this. I've put together a "Production Sheet" with fill in the blanks and check off boxes for every step of making my candles. It works for containers, pillars and anything else and even includes the time it takes me to prepare the wax for the melt. I time every step in the process, with a stopwatch. I've broken it down into roughly 3 sections: 1) Wax prep time: This is the time it takes me to break down X number of ounces of hard paraffin or any other wax and throw it in the melt pot. 2) Melt & Pour. This section is the bulk of the entire process. I start timing this section from the minute I put the pot on the heat source. While that is heating up, I engage in things that apply to the candle I'm making (lubing the mold, wicking, heating the jars, measuring out the dye and fragrance). Since I'm doing this while waiting for the wax to heat up, no extra labor time applies. I set these parts aside and attend to stirring the wax and bringing it up to the right temperature to add the dye and fragrance. Meanwhile, while waiting for the wax to cool to pour temp., I can do things like start the clean up process. During all this, the stopwatch is working automatically for me. When I finish pouring, I hit the stopwatch. That is the end of section 2).     3) Second pour or top off: Whichever may apply to what I'm making, including any time I might have to spend with the heat gun. 

 

This may all seem a little anal retentive, but I'm getting more done in less time. It may seem a little robotic. In fact, each time I use the sheet, I seem to get a little better with the whole process and find that I'm paying more attention to proper temperatures. It's really just an elaborate checklist, but it works. I scan the sheet and post it here if anyone wants to see it. Actually, I'll scan it and post it here anyway. 

I would love a copy. I always am way more productive when I have things to check off or cross off.

 

Karen in MA

[Quentin]

23 minutes ago, Quentin said:

This may all seem a little anal retentive, but I'm getting more done in less time. It may seem a little robotic. In fact, each time I use the sheet, I seem to get a little better with the whole process and find that I'm paying more attention to proper temperatures. It's really just an elaborate checklist, but it works. I scan the sheet and post it here if anyone wants to see it. Actually, I'll scan it and post it here anyway

I just threw some stuff on this sheet as an example. (M)=Minutes

[Quentin]

1 minute ago, kfintoni said:

I would love a copy. I always am way more productive when I have things to check off or cross off.

 

Thank you and you're welcome. I just scanned and posted it. 

[jerry]

8 hours ago, kfintoni said:

I tried the 4 x and I just cannot get $20 for a 16 oz candle around here. There are so many other candle makers around me.

Hi Karen. So I'm guessing you're in western MA, not near Boston? I'm in southern RI, (I have lived in both Boston and far western MA) and have not looked around at pricing too much here, but in local shops there are 7-9 oz candles selling for $16-20. I have seen some online for $22 - soy candles in 9 oz straight sided jars. I'm not saying that's what you should charge, just putting it out there for perspective and consideration within our geographic area. Pricing can feel challenging, that's for sure.

[Quentin]

5 minutes ago, kfintoni said:

I would love a copy. I always am way more productive when I have things to check off or cross off.

 

Karen in MA

This sheet (with stopwatch) does a good job of tracking the time to make the product and does an excellent job of keeping me from making mistakes. However, it doesn't help me at all when I try to decide the question of "What is my time worth?" Should I pay myself minimum wage, less than minimum wage, $45.00 an hour, or not pay myself at all? That's where I'm stumped. How much can I pay myself and not make the candle price so high that I'm pricing it out of the market? I don't have an answer for that. 

[kfintoni]

1 minute ago, Quentin said:

This sheet (with stopwatch) does a good job of tracking the time to make the product and does an excellent job of keeping me from making mistakes. However, it doesn't help me at all when I try to decide the question of "What is my time worth?" Should I pay myself minimum wage, less than minimum wage, $45.00 an hour, or not pay myself at all? That's where I'm stumped. How much can I pay myself and not make the candle price so high that I'm pricing it out of the market? I don't have an answer for that. 

My problem is the down time in making candles is hard to account for. Wax melted to certain temp to add fragrance then waiting for it to cool to pour then waiting to set up to cut the wicks and label. Yes I do other things in the meantime but it is not always candle related.

 

Karen in MA

[Trappeur]

So after you figure your costs and put in the labor, how much does it cost for 1 candle Quentin?

How much do you figure you are worth an order?

Trappeur...

[Quentin]

6 minutes ago, kfintoni said:

My problem is the down time in making candles is hard to account for. Wax melted to certain temp to add fragrance then waiting for it to cool to pour then waiting to set up to cut the wicks and label. Yes I do other things in the meantime but it is not always candle related.

 

Karen in MA

As I wrote, when using this sheet there in no "down time in making candles is hard to account for. Wax melted to certain temp to add fragrance then waiting for it to cool to pour then waiting to set up to cut the wicks and label." because you're doing other critical tasks while all that is going on. You're not stopping and starting to do each of those tasks. You're doing "candle related" things. I'm not deceiving myself by thinking I've come up with anything original here. I've just found something that keeps me organized and tells me how much time it takes to make A candle or 48 candles. You'll notice on the sheet that I was making 48 ounces in this example. That would be around 5 of my status jars. The times I put in there were real. 52 minutes for 5 Status Jar candles.  You just made a point of something I've left off my sheet, I haven't included the labeling, packing, etc. See, I told you it wasn't perfect  Back to the revision office again.

[Quentin]

20 minutes ago, Trappeur said:

So after you figure your costs and put in the labor, how much does it cost for 1 candle Quentin?

How much do you figure you are worth an order?

Trappeur...

You'll notice on the sheet that I was making 48 ounces in this example. That would be around 5 of my status jars. The times I put in there were real. 52 minutes for 5 Status Jar candles. I made these on Saturday. So the time to make one of them would be...  52 minutes divided by 5 candles = 10.4 minutes per candle? So I suppose I would add about 10 minutes of labor into the cost of materials. As far as your question "How much do you figure you are worth an order?", I don't know the answer to that. I'm retired with time on my hands. I haven't figured out that part of the puzzle. I can look at it two ways. I'm in business and working without pay or it's a hobby and I'm just selling the candles. That's the part I'm puzzling with. 

[Laura C]

1 hour ago, Quentin said:

It's really just an elaborate checklist, but it works. I scan the sheet and post it here if anyone wants to see it. Actually, I'll scan it and post it here anyway. 

 

Cool, show & tell. Thanks for posting.

[Quentin]

1 hour ago, kfintoni said:

My problem is the down time in making candles is hard to account for. Wax melted to certain temp to add fragrance then waiting for it to cool to pour then waiting to set up to cut the wicks and label. Yes I do other things in the meantime but it is not always candle related.

You'll get better at this part the more you do it. At first, it is quite overwhelming. I would get so confused that I would make huge mistakes like pouring the candles and then realizing that I poured all those candles and forgot to put in the fragrance that I had measured out earlier! That's probably why so many of my first candles had no hot or cold throw at all. Then I would post endless questions on this forum asking why my candles had no throw. I must have been driving these people crazy. I think I actually did drive one lady crazy. Seriously though, as time goes by, it will all fall in place. Most of it at least. You will find yourself doing some of these things automatically. I promise.

[kfintoni]

1 hour ago, Quentin said:

You'll get better at this part the more you do it. At first, it is quite overwhelming. I would get so confused that I would make huge mistakes like pouring the candles and then realizing that I poured all those candles and forgot to put in the fragrance that I had measured out earlier! That's probably why so many of my first candles had no hot or cold throw at all. Then I would post endless questions on this forum asking why my candles had no throw. I must have been driving these people crazy. I think I actually did drive one lady crazy. Seriously though, as time goes by, it will all fall in place. Most of it at least. You will find yourself doing some of these things automatically. I promise.

The down time I was talking about is not a problem it is just hard for me to figure the labor when there is actual time I am not say doing anything candle specific. I have been doing it for years so I have a great system in place but I pour my candles at a much lower temp than you so a 6 pound batch of candles takes longer to cool before pouring that is the down time I was referring to. Yes there is always label printing, computer bookkeeping or ordering more fragrances to keep me busy.

 

Karen in MA

[Quentin]

On 2/4/2019 at 11:27 PM, kfintoni said:

The down time I was talking about is not a problem it is just hard for me to figure the labor when there is actual time I am not say doing anything candle specific. I have been doing it for years so I have a great system in place but I pour my candles at a much lower temp than you so a 6 pound batch of candles takes longer to cool before pouring that is the down time I was referring to. Yes there is always label printing, computer bookkeeping or ordering more fragrances to keep me busy.

 

Karen in MA

OK. Sorry, I must have misunderstood your question a little.🖖