Sebleo Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) That is interesting. So, how does it work? Putting wax, dye, and fragrance in at once. How does it mix right there in the candle? Maybe because it injects it into the wax stream as it comes out? Color me intrigued! Edited February 26, 2019 by Sebleo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 The magic is in the mechanics of the nozzle. It can do a controlled inject at speed, temperature and pressure within the mechanism as the wax moves trough to thoroughly blend. This, to me, seems like a warmed version of a post mix soda fountain. This technology is different from an average human pouring a blob into a pour pot and pouring. Back to your original question, do we need to really mix: yes. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebleo Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 That’s a great comparison! And how I figured it worked. Oh, how I would love to have that!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLight Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 I do think adding fragrance at 180 is important. It insures that all the wax and additives are fully melted and adding fragrance at that temp gives you time to really stir the fragrance well into the wax molecules. I think lots of people do not store the fragrance and blend it in well enough and that shows up as other problems when the wax sets up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bktolbert Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Adding fo to wax heated will cause some scent to evaporate inevitably. This is how candles work. You want to add the fo at the lowest temperature that it can be comfortably blended into liquid wax. Personally, the melting point of my wax is 120F and it starts to solidify around 100F. So, between 100-120F I stir in the fo. I don't see any particular advantage to adding fo to very hot wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah S Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 8 hours ago, bktolbert said: I don't see any particular advantage to adding fo to very hot wax. This: 13 hours ago, NightLight said: I do think adding fragrance at 180 is important. It insures that all the wax and additives are fully melted and adding fragrance at that temp gives you time to really stir the fragrance well into the wax molecules. I think lots of people do not store the fragrance and blend it in well enough and that shows up as other problems when the wax sets up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 2/25/2019 at 9:17 AM, CaptnKush said: Ok, I have a question about all this. You say heat to this temp, mix FO at this temp, keep mixing for a couple minutes blah blah, then I see this Coogar machine on youtube that does all this for you. Now the problem I am having is this Coogar machine mixes the scents right when it pours into jar, not before. So whats the deal with that, do you really need to mix FO for several minutes or not? You've posed a really good question. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 2/26/2019 at 1:21 PM, Sebleo said: That’s a great comparison! And how I figured it worked. Oh, how I would love to have that!!! I "need" one of those machines badly. That's awesome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Something tells me you’d need to conform to a wax that does well poured hot. That’s one way to eliminate a lot of fussier waxes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 1/31/2019 at 7:19 PM, TallTayl said: Considering coconut and palm candles are heated to >200*F and throw totally amazingly I don’t agree with the comments. A year ago I would have disagreed with you on this TallTayl. The people on this forum have convinced me otherwise. I've noticed big differences in the quality and consistency of my candles since I've started following the "rules" so to speak. My candle failure rate has dropped dramatically and I'm much more confident now, when I: 1) Heat the wax to 190 (unless the directions say higher) and add the dye. Then stir for two minutes. 2) Add the fragrance at 185F and stir for two minutes. If the temperature drops below 185F when I add fragrance, which it will, I stir until I get the heat back up to 185 and then I start my timed two minute stir. I'm a believer now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 2/25/2019 at 12:15 PM, CaptnKush said: Haven't found a price yet, it says to call for quote. If you have to call that generally means it's expensive. You've probably heard it said before. If you have to ask how much it costs, you probably can't afford it. I'm gonna ask anyway. Fortunately, this forum has a member that can design and build something similar for a fraction of the cost. Hold onto your money for now. @MilosCandles will have his version out pretty soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura C Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 2/26/2019 at 10:26 PM, bktolbert said: Adding fo to wax heated will cause some scent to evaporate inevitably. This is how candles work. You want to add the fo at the lowest temperature that it can be comfortably blended into liquid wax. Personally, the melting point of my wax is 120F and it starts to solidify around 100F. So, between 100-120F I stir in the fo. I don't see any particular advantage to adding fo to very hot wax. I'm curious. I don't know what wax or type of FOs you use but since you add your FO at such a low temp, what kind of cold and hot scent throw do you experience? Since you do this process I image your C&H scent throw must be really good. Do you make candles only or also wax melts? I don't think I have ever added my FO at that low of a temp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bktolbert Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Laura C said: I'm curious. I don't know what wax or type of FOs you use but since you add your FO at such a low temp, what kind of cold and hot scent throw do you experience? Since you do this process I image your C&H scent throw must be really good. Do you make candles only or also wax melts? I don't think I have ever added my FO at that low of a temp. I use 415 mixed with some coconut oil. I add my fo (CS, NG, Fillmore, etc.) at 120F. If I'm making one or two candles, I can get away with going lower. Any more than that and there's some leftover wax that solidifies before I'm done pouring. I've never struggled with a cold throw, but I think it's just the nature of the wax that some fos don't throw well hot. I believe everyone's candle making process is unique, but theoretically - I'm no scientist - I don't see the reasoning behind adding fo to extremely hot wax despite manufacturer's recommendation. It is most likely evaporating volatile scents. (It may be negligible, but it is happening.) I also don't believe in "binding"... blending should be the aim and can occur as long as the wax is liquid. I can also see the disadvantage and have struggled with adding fo to cold(er) wax - it solidifies in the pot before pouring. So, there's bound to be a happy medium in between. I recommend just experimenting if you can! It may make all the difference in the world or none at all. You've only got a few ounces of wax, some fo, and a wick to lose Funny you brought up melts. These are the second batch I've made. Same wax, same process, and they turned out fine... I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura C Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, bktolbert said: I use 415 mixed with some coconut oil. I add my fo (CS, NG, Fillmore, etc.) at 120F. If I'm making one or two candles, I can get away with going lower. Any more than that and there's some leftover wax that solidifies before I'm done pouring. I've never struggled with a cold throw, but I think it's just the nature of the wax that some fos don't throw well hot. I believe everyone's candle making process is unique, but theoretically - I'm no scientist - I don't see the reasoning behind adding fo to extremely hot wax despite manufacturer's recommendation. It is most likely evaporating volatile scents. (It may be negligible, but it is happening.) I also don't believe in "binding"... blending should be the aim and can occur as long as the wax is liquid. I can also see the disadvantage and have struggled with adding fo to cold(er) wax - it solidifies in the pot before pouring. So, there's bound to be a happy medium in between. I recommend just experimenting if you can! It may make all the difference in the world or none at all. You've only got a few ounces of wax, some fo, and a wick to lose Funny you brought up melts. These are the second batch I've made. Same wax, same process, and they turned out fine... I think. Thanks for the reply, I'm not familiar with that wax but it's interesting to hear how other people do things. The scientific/technical side of me loves doing R&D and testing multiple variables to see how they compare. I'm currently having more fun making melts than candles, I think all the wicking issues have burned me out right now, LOL. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilosCandles Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 6 hours ago, Quentin said: If you have to call that generally means it's expensive. You've probably heard it said before. If you have to ask how much it costs, you probably can't afford it. I'm gonna ask anyway. Fortunately, this forum has a member that can design and build something similar for a fraction of the cost. Hold onto your money for now. @MilosCandles will have his version out pretty soon. The version I have been working on is one that you just go to bed and when you wake up in the morning everything is all done. LOL 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 50 minutes ago, MilosCandles said: The version I have been working on is one that you just go to bed and when you wake up in the morning everything is all done. LOL I'm looking for one of those too. I suppose if you use your hand to push the button, you could still claim it was handcrafted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura C Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 7 hours ago, Quentin said: If you have to call that generally means it's expensive. You've probably heard it said before. If you have to ask how much it costs, you probably can't afford it. I'm gonna ask anyway. Fortunately, this forum has a member that can design and build something similar for a fraction of the cost. Hold onto your money for now. @MilosCandles will have his version out pretty soon. Yes, either him or @Sponiebr the king of bad ideas. LOL 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 8 hours ago, TallTayl said: Something tells me you’d need to conform to a wax that does well poured hot. That’s one way to eliminate a lot of fussier waxes. That brings up something I've got going on here. I've been experimenting with IGI 4761 Low Shrink Votive Wax. It definitely is low shrink and I like that. Unfortunately, it starts to congeal as soon as it starts running down the spout of the pour pot. By the time you've poured three votives, they're already so stiff that you don't have time to even straighten the wick pin! Has anyone of you had experience with this wax? It slides right out of the mold with no effort. I haven't even lubricated the molds. The manufacturer says the melt/congeal point is 159F and gives the pour range as 160-170. The first batch I poured at 165F. The second batch I poured at 175 down to around 170. I'm thinking of pouring hotter on this third batch tonight and/or preheating the votive molds. If anyone has any ideas, I'm listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura C Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Quentin said: I've been experimenting with IGI 4761 Low Shrink Votive Wax. It definitely is low shrink and I like that. Awesome, low shrink wax definitely intrigues me but I see it comes in a slab and probably hard as a rock. I hate that but I guess I could deal with it if I could avoid a 2nd pour. How's the cold and hot scent throw with this wax? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponiebr Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Ok lemme unnerstand this... You want to MIX FO AND wax AT the same time as you POUR? There's an APP FOR THAT! Seriously there is a thing that does that for you it's called a mixing nozzle: That's an inverted color mixing nozzle that is for sale on Grainger. You see these sorts of things used in products like 2 part epoxy and 2 part silicone rubber mixes. The problem is that you will NOT be using EQUAL volumes of FO to wax so you will have to have some sort of metered pump to deliver the wax at the right rate and the FO and the right rate to get the mix done properly. OR... You can pull HALF of your wax OUT Of the pot add in all of your FO to THAT wax and then pump 50/50 through the nozzle to get your wax properly mixed with tyour FO. OR you can put the smelly wax BACK into the main body of wax give it a stir and then and then pour the whole mess through the nozzle to make sure it is perfectly blended as it goes into your containers/molds.... If you choose the pump method you'll have to have heated lines and blah, blah, blah.... But you already KNEW that... Can I have my cookie now? Slainte, Sponiebr The Executor of BAD ideas and Sundry Services. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pughaus Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Laura C said: I think all the wicking issues have burned me out right now, LOL. No rest for the wicked, Laura. Get back in there! 😉 Edited March 2, 2019 by pughaus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfroberts Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Am I the only person here that has used multiple FOs that are difficult to mix and absolutely positively require adding at a high temp? I cannot believe I am the only person to ever encounter this phenom. All this recent business about adding FO at low temp is lunacy to me. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 1 hour ago, bfroberts said: Am I the only person here that has used multiple FOs that are difficult to mix and absolutely positively require adding at a high temp? I cannot believe I am the only person to ever encounter this phenom. All this recent business about adding FO at low temp is lunacy to me. You are not alone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share Posted March 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Laura C said: Awesome, low shrink wax definitely intrigues me but I see it comes in a slab and probably hard as a rock. I hate that but I guess I could deal with it if I could avoid a 2nd pour. How's the cold and hot scent throw with this wax? It's pretty hard. The cold throw is pretty good. They're curing now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponiebr Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 8 hours ago, bfroberts said: Am I the only person here that has used multiple FOs that are difficult to mix and absolutely positively require adding at a high temp? I cannot believe I am the only person to ever encounter this phenom. All this recent business about adding FO at low temp is lunacy to me. 6 hours ago, TallTayl said: You are not alone. I am here with you... Though we're far apart... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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