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Trappeur

Taking a poll on the best "proven" best throwing wax...

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24 minutes ago, Fireside said:

Sarah, do you feel the CW container palm compares to glass glow?  So you use 2 different waxes in your candles and customers do not seem to mind?

 

Not Sarah, but I have used both the glass glow and CW crystallizing container palm. Performance wise, they are pretty much identical with great hot and cold throw, luminescent glow, and burn qualities using the same wick. Appearance is the big difference between them. Glass glow has much more dramatic crystallization patterns that are longer and wider, while CW crystallizing container palm is more of a smallish demure snowflake pattern. If you color you will notice a difference also, the same dye and amount of dye will have a different effect of depth in each. Think of soy vs paraffin coloring, that big a difference IMO. Lastly, cost of wax. Glass glow goes for about $100 - $110 per 55 lbs and CW crystallizing container palm is just over $62 for a 55 lb case.

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So Candybee you feel the appearance difference is worth the extra expense of GG vs CW I assume?  I feel that all palm looks beautiful so if the performance and throw is merely identical, I do not mind saving a bit per case.  I see they also carry RRD wicks which I am currently comparing to CSN and Premier.  It would be nice to get wicks at the same place as wax to combine shipping.  However, I will use what is best performance and not what is more convenient if it is a huge difference.  I understand CS has CSN wicks made specifically for palm and that each wick has a different coating but I have debated on trying CDN.  I wonder if CDN is very close to CSN...just CSN with CS name on it.  All we can do is test for ourselves, but I surely would not want to get the CDN if they are close to CSN due to shipping costs for such a small test.  Thank you for your info Candybee!

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Trapp...CBL 125 is solid and comes in slabs....I use zinc wicks with this wAx.   I am in NJ this weekend, will be home Tuesday....I will send you some of this wax to test so please save your money for something else to order!   

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I like both waxes equally but love the crystal patterns of glass glow more. It really makes a stunningly beautiful candle. Sometimes I switch back and forth and one year I use CW's palm and the next GG. Reason is typically cost and to save money.

 

RE wicks, I've tried both the RRD and the CSN. Both are close to identical but not quite the same. Both are made by WEDO. After working with both, I much prefer the burn results I get with the CSNs. Personally I found the RRD's sooted and mushroomed too much for me. But its best to examine each wick series and test it out for yourself. What I like may be totally different performance wise in what you expect from a good candle burn. Do be prepared thou, these wicks burn with a very tall flame that I have come to embrace. Some candlemakers either can't or won't deal with it or even become alarmed by the tall flame. Palm is a different wax and has different wick needs than say soy or paraffin. So for me a wick that is made for and burns well in my palm is good enough for me. Just start out with the next 2 smaller sizes of CSNs if you are following the CS wick guide. Then determine which is the best for your size jar.

 

1 hour ago, Fireside said:

So Candybee you feel the appearance difference is worth the extra expense of GG vs CW I assume?  I feel that all palm looks beautiful so if the performance and throw is merely identical, I do not mind saving a bit per case.  I see they also carry RRD wicks which I am currently comparing to CSN and Premier.  It would be nice to get wicks at the same place as wax to combine shipping.  However, I will use what is best performance and not what is more convenient if it is a huge difference.  I understand CS has CSN wicks made specifically for palm and that each wick has a different coating but I have debated on trying CDN.  I wonder if CDN is very close to CSN...just CSN with CS name on it.  All we can do is test for ourselves, but I surely would not want to get the CDN if they are close to CSN due to shipping costs for such a small test.  Thank you for your info Candybee!

 

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@Fireside, I have not used the Glass Glow, so I couldn't compare, sorry!

@Candybee is very knowledgeable, I always take her advice.

I haven't tried the RRDs either, but I have used Premiers in Palm and they work well. I think the CSNs have a stronger flame and better throw.

HTH!

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6 hours ago, Trappeur said:

Sarah,   can you give me like an idea like what jar you use for an example and then what size htp wick you would use for it in the CB125.

I have tons of htp wicks and cd wicks which I use mainly.   Can't remember without looking it up, but is that a soy or what?   Is it slab or easy pour pellets.

 

I use the pint canning jar and 16oz country comfort for example.   You use any of these jars?

Also how bout curing?   2 weeks?

 

Trappeur

 

Trapp, as Candybee said, the 125 is 100% paraffin, it comes in a slab. It is very soft and easy to cut.

 

The only downside to this wax, is that the FO can have a big impact on wick size. I went back and checked my notes on that Carrot Cake candle I was raving about - I actually used 2 HTP 62 in a 16oz country comfort jar. That's a pretty heavy FO. If I use the same jar and wax, but use RE's Clothespins, I would use a single HTP 104. So it really depends. I have gone up to a single HTP 126, but it leaves a lot of wasted wax around the bottom.

 

For a 16oz canning jar, a HTP 73 is a good place to start, and be ready to wick up for your heavy FOs. 

 

For or a country comfort, personally I prefer the burn of a double wick, maybe a set of 52 or 62. You'll have to play with that one.

 

HTH!

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Thank you both! 

 

Yes, upon many weeks of research on palm *drunkenposting*...Candybee comes up quite often and she knows her stuff.  That is how I knew to start with CSN and I sure am appreciative on the chandlers who share their experience.  Even though we all usually end up with different outcomes in this craft, it is nice to have a starting point.

 

The premiers I already had lying around and seen some on here have tried it with palm for a "more behaved" flame so I figured why not.  The CSN can be...well :shocked2: which we all know. :lol:

 

Time will tell I guess :)

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4 hours ago, Candybee said:

Trappeur-- I just copied the pic of your outdoor cats in their electric bed for my computer screen wallpaper. LOL Kitties are so darn cute I keep looking at the pic so decided hey, why don't I make it my wallpaper??!!!

Aaahhhh....oh how nice and thoughtful Candybee....well, enjoy.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Sarah S said:

 I have used Premiers in Palm and they work well. I think the CSNs have a stronger flame and better throw.

HTH!

Even if you increase the size of the premier?  

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I've been using 4630 after starting out with C3.  The 4630 seems to have good HT, but some fragrances are still duds.  I just started a test burn with Bamboo and Coconut (CS I think), and from a 4 oz tin, I can smell it from the second floor of our house.  Not all FOs behave that way, but some definitely do.  I'm looking at grabbing one of CWs custom blends for tarts if I ever start making them, so it will be interesting to hear what you think about their stuff.  My biggest beef with the 4630 is getting it out of the box and the wax paper dividers getting stuck in it.  I need to figure out the trick for that.

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15 minutes ago, lovelyscents said:

Even if you increase the size of the premier?  

 

A bigger wick does help, but the flame still seems to struggle a bit. IDK, maybe I've just gotten used to the torch that is a CSN! 😂

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This is a great thread and so glad I put it up and am very happy that people are giving out their years of knowledge in wicking, etc, when some might not be so helpful thinking well geesh, it took me years to perfect so why would I give out my secrets and formulas, know what I mean?  I mean it's not like I'm a beginner in the world of candlemaking and I'm not about to just take someones advice, plop a wick in and away I go as I'll be doing my own testings and most likely I will be different than the next person.   It's all personal and how we view our candlemaking and of course to make a safe candle that I would be proud to offer to the public.   As we all know we all wind up generally with our own findings but to give starting points, is sure a wonderful big help and thankyou all for being so informative.  I'm thinking I will be changing wax this year because of the problems with soy throw in 464 and at this stage I don't care what wax I use.   I don't think I will have a problem with my accounts switching waxes.   I;ll have some explaining to do, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.   I sell only wholesale and to contend with adjusting prices to a little more I'll feel my way through that also.   Geesh I have one account who marks my candles up 2 1/2 times so she is reaping in the profits.   When I do decide to up pricing, I know she will understand.   It won't be much and she can still keep the same markup and make a little less in my opinion.   I'm so friggin tired anyway of always being the one on the lowest part of the totem pole to make less money to secure an account.   And I think if I were to go with a palm in her 20oz tureens would be a beautiful change to her line anyway.

 

One more question...now I'm just thinking...since I make all 464 soy candles could I possibly throw in a handful of say 464 soy to the cb125 or even the palm and be able to call it a "soy blend" for the sheer fact that there is soy in it?   I think I have heard it would mess up the crystallization, but it's just a thought????

 

Trappeur

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This is a great thread and so glad I put it up and am very happy that people are giving out their years of knowledge in wicking, etc, when some might not be so helpful thinking well geesh, it took me years to perfect so why would I give out my secrets and formulas, know what I mean?  I mean it's not like I'm a beginner in the world of candlemaking and I'm not about to just take someones advice, plop a wick in and away I go as I'll be doing my own testings and most likely I will be different than the next person.   It's all personal and how we view our candlemaking and of course to make a safe candle that I would be proud to offer to the public.   As we all know we all wind up generally with our own findings but to give starting points, is sure a wonderful big help and thankyou all for being so informative.  I'm thinking I will be changing wax this year because of the problems with soy throw in 464 and at this stage I don't care what wax I use.   I don't think I will have a problem with my accounts switching waxes.   I;ll have some explaining to do, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.   I sell only wholesale and to contend with adjusting prices to a little more I'll feel my way through that also.   Geesh I have one account who marks my candles up 2 1/2 times so she is reaping in the profits.   When I do decide to up pricing, I know she will understand.   It won't be much and she can still keep the same markup and make a little less in my opinion.   I'm so friggin tired anyway of always being the one on the lowest part of the totem pole to make less money to secure an account.   And I think if I were to go with a palm in her 20oz tureens would be a beautiful change to her line anyway.

 

One more question...now I'm just thinking...since I make all 464 soy candles could I possibly throw in a handful of say 464 soy to the cb125 or even the palm and be able to call it a "soy blend" for the sheer fact that there is soy in it?  After all it still is a blend no matter which way you think about it.   I believe I have read that a certain percentage of soy has to be added to say it is a true soy blend....but who cares...it's a blend the way I think about it and I wouldn't be lying.   I think I have heard it would mess up the crystallization, but it's just a thought????

 

Candybee the 2 candles you sent me, well the one I was burning yesterday "Christmas Clove"  which palm is that?  Is that the one that is more striking in crystallization that is more vivid?   Your candles are amazing and when I lit it up, it smelled right away.

 

Talking about wicks I have every wick out there in htp and cd's since I use cd's primarily.   Are these no good to test?   Probably not.   I was thinking since I use the 20oz largest tureen what 2 wicks I could start out with...I was just trying to compare the 2 cd 7's that go in the jar to the comparable size in the wicks suggested and also my biggest account is my apple orchard account of which I sell the pint canning jar to and those are cd 10's.

 

Sorry for so many questions.

 

Oh yes,  CB125 - 2 week cure time????

And the palms?   2 week cure time????

 

 

Trappeur

Edited by Trappeur

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Palm Wax for me. Glass Glow for containers.  CDN or CD wicks work well with it.

Edited by kandlekrazy

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Astorlite J50 is a good thrower!  I don't know the new numbers since bought out by IGI.  But it was really good when I tested it!

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1 hour ago, Crafty1_AJ said:

Astorlite J50 is a good thrower!  I don't know the new numbers since bought out by IGI.  But it was really good when I tested it!

is it IGI 4636?

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1 hour ago, Crafty1_AJ said:

Astorlite J50 is a good thrower!  I don't know the new numbers since bought out by IGI.  But it was really good when I tested it!

Must be why Sarah loves CW 125 since it's a good replacement for J50/J223.

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6 hours ago, kandlekrazy said:

Palm Wax for me. Glass Glow for containers.  CDN or CD wicks work well with it.

Have you tried CSN to compare to CDN by chance?

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9 hours ago, Trappeur said:

One more question...now I'm just thinking...since I make all 464 soy candles could I possibly throw in a handful of say 464 soy to the cb125 or even the palm and be able to call it a "soy blend" for the sheer fact that there is soy in it?  After all it still is a blend no matter which way you think about it.   I believe I have read that a certain percentage of soy has to be added to say it is a true soy blend....but who cares...it's a blend the way I think about it and I wouldn't be lying.   I think I have heard it would mess up the crystallization, but it's just a thought????

 

Candybee the 2 candles you sent me, well the one I was burning yesterday "Christmas Clove"  which palm is that?  Is that the one that is more striking in crystallization that is more vivid?   Your candles are amazing and when I lit it up, it smelled right away.

 

Talking about wicks I have every wick out there in htp and cd's since I use cd's primarily.   Are these no good to test?   Probably not.   I was thinking since I use the 20oz largest tureen what 2 wicks I could start out with...I was just trying to compare the 2 cd 7's that go in the jar to the comparable size in the wicks suggested and also my biggest account is my apple orchard account of which I sell the pint canning jar to and those are cd 10's.

 

 

I think to call a candle a soy candle it has to have a higher % of soy to the other wax(s). So yes, it would kill the beautiful crystal patterns. I find that adding more than 5% of soy to palm kills the pattern. Adding 5% or less will still give you some pattern but a little less of it.

 

RE the 20oz Tureens you are on your own trying to wick with palm. If wanting to use CSN's than start with the next size larger than CSN12. But honestly, I find that the best jars for palm wax container candles are the salsa and straight sided jars. The most perfecto being the 16oz salsa/straight sided jar with glass glow and a CSN12. The burn is beautiful plus you get the whole show that GG has to offer in a jar. Its hard to explain but I loved the 16oz jars the best!

 

The clove candle I sent you is the GG. Its in a 12oz economy jar with a CSN12. There is no other size of CSN between a 9 -12 so thats the one I have to use. A CSN11 would be perfect but I can't find it anywhere.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, lovelyscents said:

Have you tried CSN to compare to CDN by chance?

I may have tried, I don't have my notes anymore to check but something tells me I didn't like them as well or I would still have them.

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On 1/26/2019 at 7:53 PM, Candybee said:

Don't get all twitter-pated yet. I just got up from my Saturday after market nap....

 

Let's see, I get great HT and CT from my glass glow palm, or any palm for that matter. 

 

I think one of the best throwing, or a couple of the best throwing paraffin waxes I ever used or heard about are any of the old J waxes such as J223 (now IGI 4633) or the super soft Comfort Blend IGI 4627.

 

The only soy I ever got an exceptional throw from was the old Ecosoya pillar blend. However, that blend has been reincarnated and is back on the market once again with its original name Ecosoya Pillar Blend.

 

That's my opinion based on my experience.

HA!  You just dated yourself talking about those old J waxes.  Wait a minute . . . I just dated myself too!  What a sticky mess they were to work with but I often think that I recognize that wax in a lot of Yankee candles.

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38 minutes ago, Arch Rock said:

HA!  You just dated yourself talking about those old J waxes.  Wait a minute . . . I just dated myself too!  What a sticky mess they were to work with but I often think that I recognize that wax in a lot of Yankee candles.

 

Yeah, the old Astorlite J waxes J50 and J223. They were actually another brand before Astorlite but can no longer remember. That was a mere 10-12 yrs ago. Drop in the bucket of time for me.

 

But oh boy did they throw like the dickens. Talk about getting lucky on your first wax. Got excellent burn and hot, cold throw on my very first candles. Unfortunately I did not learn yet how to wick them correctly as I was inexperienced at the time. Because of that they smoked like chimneys but were the best throwing, smelling candles I ever made bar none.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Candybee

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J223 was my first too.  Holy WOW was it a thrower. Then astorlite sold and the formula changed, the rest is history. Same song played over and over 😪. So disheartening.  Makes me want to try the cbl for nostalgia sake. 

 

The most recent similar success was 4630.  With a paper wick in a tin it burned and threw pretty well for me. Will try the 4627 one day. It intrigues me. Makes me wish I had stuck with paraffin all these years.

 

one thing to include when choosing a wax is how manufacturing friendly it is.  Soy, palm, Beeswax, parasoys and some others are just not manufacturing friendly being prone to Cavities, cracks, variance between lots, etc.  remind me why I make candles again? 🥴

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9 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

 

one thing to include when choosing a wax is how manufacturing friendly it is.  Soy, palm, Beeswax, parasoys and some others are just not manufacturing friendly being prone to Cavities, cracks, variance between lots, etc.  remind me why I make candles again? 🥴

 

And don't forget availability. Some waxes are so popular they can be OOS frequently. Glass glow is a good example of this. I love GG but have learned over the years to order all my wax before the fall/holiday season when it can frequently be OOS. That can be very frustrating if you weren't prepared and went to order it and its OOS not only at your usual supplier but all the other GG suppliers as well. Argh!! :angry2:

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1 hour ago, Candybee said:

 

And don't forget availability. Some waxes are so popular they can be OOS frequently. Glass glow is a good example of this. I love GG but have learned over the years to order all my wax before the fall/holiday season when it can frequently be OOS. That can be very frustrating if you weren't prepared and went to order it and its OOS not only at your usual supplier but all the other GG suppliers as well. Argh!! :angry2:

Amen to that!!!

 

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