Lab & Co coconut wax

[Laura C]

I speak for myself, I'm at the point that I don't believe anything a wax manufacture or supplier tells me anymore, LOL. I have been flat out lied to by them, and I didn't appreciate that. The ingredients and the story is always changing, depending on which day you call, so to give them the benefit of the doubt, hummm, they may not always know what's going on or have control of what ingredients they can get. Who knows?  

[TallTayl]

9 hours ago, Laura C said:

I speak for myself, I'm at the point that I don't believe anything a wax manufacture or supplier tells me anymore, LOL. I have been flat out lied to by them, and I didn't appreciate that. The ingredients and the story is always changing, depending on which day you call, so to give them the benefit of the doubt, hummm, they may not always know what's going on or have control of what ingredients they can get. Who knows?  

I’m with you.  When two lots of the “same” wax are as different as night and day I get really skeptical of anything I’m told. 

 

Coconut waxes are so new they seem to be playing games to capture some quick money. Truth in advertising goes a long way in my world. 

 

I said a year go coconut wax is a fad. Sadly I think it’s still true. Out of box not one is all that great.  It soots terribly if not exactly perfectly wicked, and often needs to be blended really carefully with other waxes (when the formulas change between lots this is the same problem soy has). small makers jumping into the coconut candle scene hopefully are testing well.  Sooty coconut jars rival paraffin in every way. How can we sell coconut wax on its merits when people see black glass and walls and ceilings for themselves? 

[Laura C]

 

Quote

I said a year go coconut wax is a fad. Sadly I think it’s still true. Out of box not one is all that great.  It soots terribly if not exactly perfectly wicked, and often needs to be blended really carefully with other waxes (when the formulas change between lots this is the same problem soy has).

 

My sentiments exactly @TallTayl. And regarding the early versions (2015-2016) of the coconut wax, Coconut 83 from Accu-Blend particularly, I did not have the soot/smoke problems with it, ever. It "Was" A Wonderful Wax, so unfortunate that it no longer exists.    I loved that Original Coconut 83 wax either alone or mixed with a little USWA to firm it up more and increase scent throw. Every time I made candles with it they were pretty much perfect. Always great jar adhesion, strong C&H scent throw no matter what scent I used, would usually have to do 2nd pours for level tops and the Premier, Performa, Cotttonwood and Ribbon wicks all performed beautifully. Sadly and so, so disappointingly, it is my Unicorn wax that can't be found and no longer exists. It really bums me out. 

 

I called Accu-Blend and asked them to bring back the original blend and they acted like they didn't know what I was talking about, like I was crazy or delusional. They said the wax had not changed. I even told them I would buy the recipe for that wax since they were no longer going to use it. Of course that didn't happen, but I had to ask. So my search for the "perfect" wax continues. (I don't know why this entry posted twice?)

Edited January 28, 2019 by Laura C

[PINKT]

Yes, Jeana you are correct.. I contacted them again to make sure and both of their waxes contain paraffin.

[NightLight]

Those waxes you guys tested must have paraffin in them. I created my own coconut wax formul and burns clean with zero soot on candle glass. If you want to use coconut wax you are better off creating your own formula then you won’t be subject to shortages and the whites of candle wax producers.

[Jeana]

3 hours ago, NightLight said:

Those waxes you guys tested must have paraffin in them. I created my own coconut wax formul and burns clean with zero soot on candle glass. If you want to use coconut wax you are better off creating your own formula then you won’t be subject to shortages and the whites of candle wax producers.

So funny you said this, this is what I’ve been doing. I’m so tired of of manufacturer mistakes and shortages effecting my business. Plus, now I know exactly what is in my formula. No more mystery waxes.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Jeana

[Bambi]

3 hours ago, NightLight said:

Those waxes you guys tested must have paraffin in them. I created my own coconut wax formul and burns clean with zero soot on candle glass. If you want to use coconut wax you are better off creating your own formula then you won’t be subject to shortages and the whites of candle wax producers.

Do you mind sharing what coconut wax and (supplier) you started out with to create your own formula? I'm open at this point and was actually doing this with Coconut 83 until the factory decided to relocate.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Bambi

[Jeana]

On 1/28/2019 at 7:43 AM, TallTayl said:

I’m with you.  When two lots of the “same” wax are as different as night and day I get really skeptical of anything I’m told. 

 

Coconut waxes are so new they seem to be playing games to capture some quick money. Truth in advertising goes a long way in my world. 

 

I said a year go coconut wax is a fad. Sadly I think it’s still true. Out of box not one is all that great.  It soots terribly if not exactly perfectly wicked, and often needs to be blended really carefully with other waxes (when the formulas change between lots this is the same problem soy has). small makers jumping into the coconut candle scene hopefully are testing well.  Sooty coconut jars rival paraffin in every way. How can we sell coconut wax on its merits when people see black glass and walls and ceilings for themselves? 

 

The interesting thing about coconut wax is that many of them are not meant to be a stand alone wax. I've have the rep from Cargill tell me the the Coconut 1 is only hydrogenated 92 degree coconut oil and should not be used more than 25% in a blend. He said people don't listen to that and try to use it alone. But it only has a mp of 92 degrees. And the owner of Accu Blend informed me that coco83 should be mixed because the melt point is too low. He even admitted that the sc21 should be mix even though it has paraffin in it, because "it's too soft on it's own" . So the problem is that candle makers are not truly understanding the products they are working with. Using coconut on its own won't work. There are other "coconut" waxes out there, like the one from Cal-Wax, that uses a high percentage of paraffin in them to raise the melt point, and they perform much better. But the amount of actual coconut in them is pretty small. They are mostly soy, palm, and paraffin. I know you personally know most of this TT because you are a research type person, but I thought this could help others. 

But you are definitely right when you say it's a fad. But I don't think it's going any where soon. People adore coconut in any form LOL.

[NightLight]

Hi there,

It took me an inch thick of testing waxes, percentages, and wicks for months. You can make any formula but it does require work.

What is beneficial you learn an immense amount of how different waxes work with different ratio, and also the whole wick thing going on.

No regrets though my family thought I was insane with the amount of lined up test candles on the table everyday for months on end!

I never do one formula that works, because of companies changing formulas/waxes etc. Also what may work for me may not work for you so it’s worth the effort. Keep a notebook, and be very methodical. This is not hunt and peck till I get it. Perfect wax requires attention to detail...haha ask me how I know! 

You can achieve perfect adhesion, smooth top, perfect burn and smooth afterburn but ya got to work it.

[NightLight]

That did not make sense, my clipboard is an inch thick with different formulas, ratios from testing. There is no simple, even with one pour waxes. Your pouring enviroment, locale etc. are factors In how your stuff turns out.

[Bambi]

17 minutes ago, NightLight said:

That did not make sense, my clipboard is an inch thick with different formulas, ratios from testing. There is no simple, even with one pour waxes. Your pouring enviroment, locale etc. are factors In how your stuff turns out.

Yes, I understand that and too have several notebooks that I've collected just from testing. I guess I was asking are you using a pure coconut wax and blending from that? I do know of a few suppliers that offer pure coconut that states will not work as a standalone. I'm not asking for your formula or your ratios, just maybe a suggestion of the coconut wax. But I understand everything you've mentioned here and in the previous post. Thanks

[Kerven]

The coconut base in a coconut wax is only going to be but so hard. In most cases it's hydrogenated or stearin fractions of coconut oil with melt points 90F-110F. Other ingredients are needed to harden it and raise the melt point: stearates, various mono- di- glycerides, soy wax, palm wax, palm stearin fractions, paraffin, beeswax, plant waxes (carnauba, candelilla, rice bran, etc.) etc.. The most economic and domestic materials are probably paraffin and hydrogenated soy, which could explain why we see so many coconut waxes with paraffin, soy, or both as blenders/fillers. If you want to make a coconut wax (you're not going to be able to make one 100% coconut), I'd suggest blending with a soy that isn't loaded with additives... maybe S-113, S-130, or S-150, or maybe 444. If anyone knows of a good source for hydrogenated palm (not palm wax), I'm all ears.

[TallTayl]

I agree with the coconut 1 and 2 assessment.  Just looking at the tech specs those are never going to work for a candle all alone.  I use coconut 92 in other products froma much cheaper source, and have tried formulating my own coconut wax from scratch for nearly 2 years now.  There’s something else going on, whether it’s technology or undisclosed ingredients, since nothing I’ve tried has come close to the texture of any retail format wax. I have a stock room full of every known veg wax, emulsifier, stabilizer, fatty alcohol, oil fraction, you name it. Nothing is as stable year round. Syneresis and migration of components is usually a pretty significant issue long term, especially with temperature variations as most homes have without even considering shipping.

 

Coconut 83/easybeads *is* marketed as stand alone with a melt point over 120.  That’s higher than many paraffin container waxes and close to soy wax.  The coconut waxes kind of gel before melting. It’s just next to impossible to wick.  I have every manufactured wick in North America and they all might work in one or two situations, but that’s it. They need to be blended - so down another rabbit hole we go.  

 

Adding beeswax stabilizes many coco nut waxes, but causes more soot potential in the slightest breeze or draft. You’re limited to wide containers where the soot won’t show easily. 

[Jeana]

33 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

I agree with the coconut 1 and 2 assessment.  Just looking at the tech specs those are never going to work for a candle all alone.  I use coconut 92 in other products froma much cheaper source, and have tried formulating my own coconut wax from scratch for nearly 2 years now.  There’s something else going on, whether it’s technology or undisclosed ingredients, since nothing I’ve tried has come close to the texture of any retail format wax. I have a stock room full of every known veg wax, emulsifier, stabilizer, fatty alcohol, oil fraction, you name it. Nothing is as stable year round. Syneresis and migration of components is usually a pretty significant issue long term, especially with temperature variations as most homes have without even considering shipping.

 

Coconut 83/easybeads *is* marketed as stand alone with a melt point over 120.  That’s higher than many paraffin container waxes and close to soy wax.  The coconut waxes kind of gel before melting. It’s just next to impossible to wick.  I have every manufactured wick in North America and they all might work in one or two situations, but that’s it. They need to be blended - so down another rabbit hole we go.  

 

Adding beeswax stabilizes many coco nut waxes, but causes more soot potential in the slightest breeze or draft. You’re limited to wide containers where the soot won’t show easily. 

When I asked accu blend (the manufacturer of easy beads) if the wax had palm in it he wouldn't answer, and just kept saying he couldn't reveal what is in it. I was annoyed because most of my customers don't want to use palm products. I feel like not disclosing it is lying to them.  I think they add palm to the coconut waxes, that is how they get the higher mp and why it's a "B" to wick. I'm sure you've tried wicking straight palm when it was the rage. I never could get palm wicked. 

I don't know why easy beads is marketed as a stand alone wax. Especially when the manufacturer and the CA distributor both agree it isn't. I don't know if I believe the mp is 120. I worked with it quite a bit and it didn't even seem to have the 113-119 mp of 464.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Jeana

[PINKT]

just an FYI- Both waxes sold by The Lab and Co ( Wooden Wick Co)  contain a small amount of FOOD GRADE PARAFFIN.  I contacted them yesterday because of the concern  of members in candle groups on FB.... Food grade paraffin is considered and all natural product and because the wax formula is proprietary, they don't have to list it

[PINKT]

On 11/24/2018 at 10:03 AM, pughaus said:

My usual coconut wax has been out of stock so I ordered Lab & Co's fancy "Virgin Coconut Creme" described as a blend of coconut and soy.  

It's very pretty, soft, pure white and odorless in packaging befitting a wax one might buy from Neiman Marcus with the price go with it.  With freight, it cost me $5.40 lb.

Poured at 170 degrees into a 9 oz straight jar yesterday-  my tester has perfect adhesion, no sinkholes, a smooth flat top and excellent cold throw.  So far, it is exactly as described on the Lab & Co. site. 

Has anyone else given this stuff a try?

 

just an FYI.... this wax contains FOOD GRADE PARAFFIN... not much, but it is in there. I contacted the company yesterday and asked

[TallTayl]

1 hour ago, PINKT said:

just an FYI- Both waxes sold by The Lab and Co ( Wooden Wick Co)  contain a small amount of FOOD GRADE PARAFFIN.  I contacted them yesterday because of the concern  of members in candle groups on FB.... Food grade paraffin is considered and all natural product and because the wax formula is proprietary, they don't have to list it

*Food grade paraffin is considered and all natural product*

 

this is the first time I have EVER heard this as a reason to not list an ingredient in a compound. It either contains something, or it does not. Like if it contains peanut fractions which may cause anaphylaxis in a decent sized portion of the population if handled or breathed they would not list it because it is “natural”? Riiiiiiiight. 

 

I’m distrusting these coconut manufacturers and retailers More every day. Maybe it is time to just switch back to IGI paraffins.  At least those waxes work consistently and they are HONEST.

 

 

[Fireside]

52 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

I’m distrusting these coconut manufacturers and retailers More every day. Maybe it is time to just switch back to IGI paraffins.  At least those waxes work consistently and they are HONEST.

 

 

AGREED, along with CW blends.

[pughaus]

On 1/27/2019 at 9:55 PM, Laura C said:

The ingredients and the story is always changing, depending on which day you call, so to give them the benefit of the doubt, hummm, they may not always know what's going on or have control of what ingredients they can get. Who knows? 

I suspect this vagueness is primarily due to the supplier trying not to give away their "secret formula" by disclosing every ingredient and less so them trying to pass the wax off as an all veggie blend.  And no doubt, some days the person answering the phones really doesn't know much more than what is written on the website.  

[Laura C]

6 hours ago, TallTayl said:

I’m distrusting these coconut manufacturers and retailers More every day. Maybe it is time to just switch back to IGI paraffins.  At least those waxes work consistently and they are HONEST.

 

Now that you mention it, I've been testing out some different IGI waxes and for the most part I think I like them, other than having to deal with the ones that are in hard slab form.

[Laura C]

On 11/24/2018 at 12:03 PM, pughaus said:

My usual coconut wax has been out of stock so I ordered Lab & Co's fancy "Virgin Coconut Creme" described as a blend of coconut and soy.  

It's very pretty, soft, pure white and odorless in packaging befitting a wax one might buy from Neiman Marcus with the price go with it.  With freight, it cost me $5.40 lb.

Poured at 170 degrees into a 9 oz straight jar yesterday-  my tester has perfect adhesion, no sinkholes, a smooth flat top and excellent cold throw.  So far, it is exactly as described on the Lab & Co. site. 

Has anyone else given this stuff a try?

 

Holy moly that's expensive wax! It looks and sounds great. Maybe I'll take out a loan and try it.

Actually from the way you describe it, it sounds exactly the way I would describe the wonderful candles of long ago that I use to be able to make with the long lost version of Coconut 83 from Accu-blend. From my experience, it's the great coconut wax that got away.   Maybe someone at Lab & Co use to work at Accu-Blend and took the recipe, LOL. I had not experimented with that many waxes at that time so I didn't even realized just how good that Coco83 wax was. 

[strugglebrother]

I would invest in the bigger and trusted brands like IGI and Cargill... 

 

I thought I could trust Golden Brands but I will not invest one dollar in any of their waxes anymore.. IGI and Cargill have so far been stable and seem to be much more dedicated to the candle maker industry...

 

Accu-Blends formula might be the same but their ingredients itself might have changed which will change the blend... Smaller companies buy what they can get their hands on for the best price and their formula changes therefore

 

I don't think coconut wax itself is a trend that will die but I agree on that the wax blends that are promoted right now as a "one pour everything is fantastic" is a quick capitalisation on the dying soy wax trend. The blends out there now don't work on their own.

 

Voluspa made coconut wax big 7-10 years ago, and theirs is a blend of mostly coconut and paraffin and other things.. Their wax blend is amazing.

[TallTayl]

Interesting you mentioned voluspa. Their wax blend for their container situation is a win.  Any other container with their wax in “our” hands might easily be considered a big fat fail.  They did a great job setting expectations for the consumer. 

[strugglebrother]

Yeah, they nailed the tins for sure, I have amazing throw out of their tins in about 10 minutes...

 

I should try one of their new macaroon candles to see how they do... They are probably great too

[CandleRush]

Coming to this late! I love coconut wax! Northwoods claims have been 100% right on! Theirs has no paraffin. I’ve never had to do another pour, smooth tops, no heat guns! A bit softer, yes but such a luxurious wax. I’ve had the same experience with Lab & Co. theirs has a small percentage of paraffin which I don’t mind, just as lovely. I also love cutting that wax, like butta! I don’t know how these will hold up in summer, we’ll see. On another post I mentioned that other than using straight coconut wax for my candles I also blend 464 and coconut again with great success. I hope you all have a chance to try it. 

No, I don’t work for either company lol

Edited February 13, 2019 by CandleRush