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464 competing with "Soy Wax Blend." Frustration!


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So one of the shops that carries our candles said they love them, but when they light them in their (800 sq ft, high ceiling) shop, they can't smell them. The owner also said she can't smell them, even when she lights them at home.  We test and test and test for throw in our 464--don't know how that is possible that she can't smell anything.  They told us they will no longer stock them and are moving to a new soy candle vendor--one that fills the whole shop when lit.  They also stocked the new Joanna Gaines line, too.  Hard to compete with that. When I looked at their new (not the Joanna Gaines ones) candles, they were listed as "Soy Wax Blend," which I'm assuming means parasoy? 

 

I am super bummed.  I don't understand it because we've been selling very well in that shop. Trying not to take it personally, but now I'm thinking maybe we should test a parasoy?  I feel like people who want soy candles want it b/c they are afraid of paraffins, but isn't "Soy Wax Blend" misleading, if it may have paraffin in it?   I'm not anti paraffin by any means, but the market I'm in really likes it if things are soy.

Edited by ellajoan
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Actually, pretty sure it's because they have ordered candles with a higher price point that they want to sell.  :( . We are very competitive (maybe too much so?) with our prices.  We are in 6 other stores and the feedback from those stores has been good, so I'm happy about that.  But I am re-thinking our HT.

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This is just my opinion but if your market is soy and you want to stick with soy then stay true to your brand 

For one account lost another could be around the corner .....maybe with the soy changes your throw has changed - 

can you smell your candles?

 I personally can’t smell 464 candles and that isn’t meant to be a mean comment I just can’t, worked with it for years and unless it’s dangerously wicked hot I got nothing from it but it is so easy to work with - maybe adding some 444 will help improve it but my experience with the 444 these days is you have to watch for cracks and cavities but 464 is so soft you might not have that issue 

and btw -Joanna Gaines candles have no throw to my nose either so maybe the shop will come back to you if you always had good feedback before 😉

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  • 2 weeks later...

A soy wax blend isn't necessarily parasoy. A blend could be anything else blended with soy (palm wax, beeswax, coconut, other hydrogenated vegetable oils, and/or paraffin). Honestly, scent-throw anxiety gets me all the time! I actually quit using 464 entirely because I wasn't satisfied with the throws (though not saying yours don't smell). As for the marketing -- there's no regulation of candle labelling beyond standard labelling laws. I cringe every time I see a soy candle marketed as "vegan" or "organic" or "100% soy" <-- which BTW is very difficult/if not impossible to find... majority of "soy" waxes are blends with other vegetable waxes, even 464 isn't 100% soy wax...

 

I agree with @moonshine. Don't dilute your brand if you want to stick with vegetable waxes, but there's no harm in blending another wax in there to get better scent throws. Technically, your blend should contain at least 25% soy wax to call it "soy wax". I personally use coconut wax... LOVE IT. It ain't cheap, but my scent throws are mad good!

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On 11/29/2018 at 9:35 PM, StanfordP said:

A soy wax blend isn't necessarily parasoy. A blend could be anything else blended with soy (palm wax, beeswax, coconut, other hydrogenated vegetable oils, and/or paraffin). Honestly, scent-throw anxiety gets me all the time! I actually quit using 464 entirely because I wasn't satisfied with the throws (though not saying yours don't smell). As for the marketing -- there's no regulation of candle labelling beyond standard labelling laws. I cringe every time I see a soy candle marketed as "vegan" or "organic" or "100% soy" <-- which BTW is very difficult/if not impossible to find... majority of "soy" waxes are blends with other vegetable waxes, even 464 isn't 100% soy wax...

 

I agree with @moonshine. Don't dilute your brand if you want to stick with vegetable waxes, but there's no harm in blending another wax in there to get better scent throws. Technically, your blend should contain at least 25% soy wax to call it "soy wax". I personally use coconut wax... LOVE IT. It ain't cheap, but my scent throws are mad good!

I can’t believe I’m even asking this question but my curiosity is getting the best of me :( I’ve read on here a few times about coconut wax but don’t know anything about it. Could you tell me a little about it? Easily wicked ( like that’s a thing LOL) Does it soot a lot? I’ll try researching also but hoping you could share your knowledge ;) 

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7 hours ago, Daisymay66 said:

I can’t believe I’m even asking this question but my curiosity is getting the best of me :( I’ve read on here a few times about coconut wax but don’t know anything about it. Could you tell me a little about it? Easily wicked ( like that’s a thing LOL) Does it soot a lot? I’ll try researching also but hoping you could share your knowledge ;) 

I LOVE coconut wax! 🥰 It’s like a miracle wax. It doesn’t crack or sink, it hardens faster, and holds fragrance better. It’s also a purely sustainable product. The agricultural impact of soy (farming, irrigation, land waste) negates any environmental benefit of using soy wax. 

 

Its tough to wick, which is why I blend it with soy. In pure form, coconut has a melting point of around 96 degrees. So, you gotta wick down. All the way down. 

 

Anyway, I could go on and on. It’s not cheap, which I blend with soy. But, my candles are beeeeau-ti-ful!

 

EDIT: I’d recommend buying a 10# bag of coconut wax and experimenting. Start with 5% and go up from there until you’re satisfied. I’d you can get a formula that uses less than 15% coconut wax, your cost per ounce of wax will only be affected by a few pennies. Worth the cost for the huge jump in quality. But you gotta experiment! And you’ll want to wick down, too. Good luck! 👍

Edited by StanfordP
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With all the different coconut waxes out there on the and so many trying to find a good one, would you mind telling which coconut you suggest as you like ?

What wick style could you suggest to experiment with?     I primarily use cd's, but I also have lots of htps and eco's.

If you don't want to say what wax  you use, I will understand.

 

Thanks.

 

Trappeur

 

 

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3 hours ago, StanfordP said:

I LOVE coconut wax! 🥰 It’s like a miracle wax. It doesn’t crack or sink, it hardens faster, and holds fragrance better. It’s also a purely sustainable product. The agricultural impact of soy (farming, irrigation, land waste) negates any environmental benefit of using soy wax. 

 

Its tough to wick, which is why I blend it with soy. In pure form, coconut has a melting point of around 96 degrees. So, you gotta wick down. All the way down. 

 

Anyway, I could go on and on. It’s not cheap, which I blend with soy. But, my candles are beeeeau-ti-ful!

 

EDIT: I’d recommend buying a 10# bag of coconut wax and experimenting. Start with 5% and go up from there until you’re satisfied. I’d you can get a formula that uses less than 15% coconut wax, your cost per ounce of wax will only be affected by a few pennies. Worth the cost for the huge jump in quality. But you gotta experiment! And you’ll want to wick down, too. Good luck! 👍

Thank you so much for your help! Would you mind sharing some reputable companies to purchase from please? 

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I use C3 and adding coconut improves hot throws significantly. I routinely go out into the marketplace and buy competitor candles. Mine outperform every time. 

 

I like the coconut wax from Candles and Supplies the best. BUT THEYVE BEEN OUT FOR MONTHS!!!  Ahhhh 🤬 haha

 

So, I tried another wax on a whim, and I’m testing it today. Fingers crossed it works as well, otherwise I’m up a creek. I’ll report back. 

 

I use ECO and premier wicks, depending on the container. But I’ve wicked down at least 5 sizes on the premiers. The coconut reduces the overall melt point of the candle, so with proper wicking, not only do you get better HT, the burn times goes up too!

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Update: I poured my new soy/coco blend, and it’s a little more viscous than my original blend. I wicked down a few notches where I could, but alas, I had orders to fill. So this batch my not be to my usual standard. 

 

I’m confident the throws will be good. I’m just nervous about the wicking. I threw a little bit of beeswax in there too to harden it up, but I don’t think it helped much. 

0F93BADC-C088-40DA-AD9B-A91C6C0E46DC.jpeg

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12 hours ago, ellajoan said:

@StanfordP, how much would you say the coconut oil improves the HT?  And is it blendable with 464 or C-3?  Interested.  

 

I’ll describe with an anecdote. I gave a candle to my friends using this particular wax blend. It was a small candle, 3.5oz of wax weight. They had it burning in their basement one night while they were working. The next morning, they could still smell the scent from the night before THREE FLOORS UP. The performance is beyond amazing!

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That was very nice of you Stanford to advise what waxes you like.   I wanted to thank you for that....it was most kind.

 

Is the picture above the 3.5oz candle?   And you went down 5 sizes than normal?   Wow!

If that is the 3.5 oz candle I would normally use a cd 4 or 5 for that amber jar which is beautiful.   But that is using 464.

Geesh, I wouldn't even know where to start for a wick size hearing what you just said....

 

Trappeur

 

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2 hours ago, Trappeur said:

That was very nice of you Stanford to advise what waxes you like.   I wanted to thank you for that....it was most kind.

 

Is the picture above the 3.5oz candle?   And you went down 5 sizes than normal?   Wow!

If that is the 3.5 oz candle I would normally use a cd 4 or 5 for that amber jar which is beautiful.   But that is using 464.

Geesh, I wouldn't even know where to start for a wick size hearing what you just said....

 

Trappeur

 

Need to bear in mind that premiers have like a zillion sizes so 5 may be equal to 2 in other wicks.  I had to go down 1 size in my jars adding 20% coco wax to C3

Edited by kandlekrazy
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If you have All seasons wax over there now , they make a lovely cocosoy blend. It is a softer wax , so is not so great in the summer heat, but i makes a beautiful creamy opaque candle. Also , remember coconut wax and coconut "oil" are not the same thing.

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33 minutes ago, kandlekrazy said:

Need to bear in mind that premiers have like a zillion sizes so 5 may be equal to 2 in other wicks.

Yep... exactly. I was using one size in 464 and used the same when I switched to C3. But, when I added coco, I did a full scale adjustment. Hence, the 5-size change. 

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2 minutes ago, obsessed said:

If you have All seasons wax over there now , they make a lovely cocosoy blend. It is a softer wax , so is not so great in the summer heat, but i makes a beautiful creamy opaque candle. Also , remember coconut wax and coconut "oil" are not the same thing.

We don’t! :( I ask them probably once a month if they have a US distributor yet. They asked if I wanted to distribute, but I can’t afford a warehouse of wax... yet. 😂

 

Although, did here through the grapevine that TrueScents and All Seasons were discussing a partnership. That might bear fruit for us... 🤷‍♂️

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#Stanford

hahahha they were scouting for distributors here last year too , as freight was a killer. They have some good waxes and also have just introduced a beesoy blend that is getting good reviews. I use the cocosoy and love it , but summer is here and it is sweating if i do an outdoor market. They do a 100% pure soy that has a higher melt point , so I might have to try adding some of that. Too close to xmas at the moment to be stuffing around! They also sell an awesome little candlemaker ... it only does 450ml (one litre pot coming next year) .... but it's great for testers and tealights ect. It's called "Chandler & me" . 

 

Edited by obsessed
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23 hours ago, StanfordP said:

I use C3 and adding coconut improves hot throws significantly. I routinely go out into the marketplace and buy competitor candles. Mine outperform every time. 

 

I like the coconut wax from Candles and Supplies the best. BUT THEYVE BEEN OUT FOR MONTHS!!!  Ahhhh 🤬 haha

 

So, I tried another wax on a whim, and I’m testing it today. Fingers crossed it works as well, otherwise I’m up a creek. I’ll report back. 

 

I use ECO and premier wicks, depending on the container. But I’ve wicked down at least 5 sizes on the premiers. The coconut reduces the overall melt point of the candle, so with proper wicking, not only do you get better HT, the burn times goes up too!

 

According to their website the wax should be back in stock Dec 4.

 

Wanted to ask, have you tried the apricot coconut wax blend from Candlewic? I'm curious about and so thought I would ask. If you did, would you mind sharing your thoughts on the wax?

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16 minutes ago, Candybee said:

Wanted to ask, have you tried the apricot coconut wax blend from Candlewic? I'm curious about and so thought I would ask. If you did, would you mind sharing your thoughts on the wax?

I haven’t! I hate apricots (personally), so that’s why I haven’t tried it! 😂😂 But, if C&S stays out, I may have to give it a go. They’ve pushed their in-stock date back like 3 times... ☹️

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9 minutes ago, StanfordP said:

I haven’t! I hate apricots (personally), so that’s why I haven’t tried it! 😂😂 But, if C&S stays out, I may have to give it a go. They’ve pushed their in-stock date back like 3 times... ☹️

 

I just looked again and the 50 lb cocoparasoy blend restock date is Dec 19. However, they have the coconut soy blend 50 lb bag in bead form in stock. So I am confused. I thought you said you are using the coconut soy blend?:huh:

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