Tolerance for Flickering and Sooting

[Arch Rock]

Guys, am I just being a total perfectionist?  What's your tolerance for putting up with the flickering and smoke spirals during a first lighting, until the wick reaches full combustion?  Am I expecting too much?  Most of them calm down after a few minutes and no one has complained but I sure could use some feedback about how normal this is.  Thanks.

[TallTayl]

Just from my observations with soy, coconut, a few brands of paraffin container blends, etc. when a wick creates what we call “soot stacks” or a stream of soot upon lighting, the wick choice will most usually create soot around the container during the last half of the candle.

 

Sometimes the phenomenon is reduced using a smaller wick size. 

Sometimes that soot can be minimized by perfect wick trimming every time and limited burn times, but that’s kind of rare.

 

I don’t mind a bit of flicker and dance, but it’s not allowed to be a smoky dragon. 

[Arch Rock]

22 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Just from my observations with soy, coconut, a few brands of paraffin container blends, etc. when a wick creates what we call “soot stacks” or a stream of soot upon lighting, the wick choice will most usually create soot around the container during the last half of the candle.

 

Sometimes the phenomenon is reduced using a smaller wick size. 

Sometimes that soot can be minimized by perfect wick trimming every time and limited burn times, but that’s kind of rare.

 

I don’t mind a bit of flicker and dance, but it’s not allowed to be a smoky dragon. 

TT - Thanks for responding.  You know, I can't help wondering if it's the wax used in priming the wicks (CDs, LXs, Premieres).  If I light the initial burn, I get a high flame, flickering, and soot swirls for about one minute (this is as long as I can tolerate it).  I blow it out, trim the head, and re-light and it burns beautifully, even on the half-poured jars.  So, what does that tell us?  Is the soot coming from the initial lighting really just the wick burning up itself before it starts siphoning up the fuel around it?  If so, maybe my wax needs untreated wicks?  Also, my paraffin blend may have more natural waxes in it than I realize.  I have a call into the manufacturer to determine the ratios.  I just ordered some CDNs to see if this might help too.  Just started testing the cottonwoods.  I'll let you know.  Thanks so much for your support.

[TallTayl]

The priming May have a bit to do with it.  Seems the wick is struggling for fuel, and the priming cannot fulfill the need.  After a burn the candles own wax is the new prime. If that wax is difficult to feed the wick it will do the same thing, struggling until it has enough fuel to feed the hungry flame. 

 

Often we can reduce or eliminate soot by trimming that wick super short before lighting. The only obvious issue here is depending on customers to do the same.  Some waxes and wick combos will struggle no matter what the length.  Here’s a pic I posted in other threads of a populatar commercial paraffin wax struggling to light when the wick was trimmed nearly level with the wax.  It goes on like this for quite some time before settling. The flame keeps reaching, reaching, reaching for enough of what it needs to burn. Once the pool begins to form it settles and can power burn for the whole day. 

 

 

Unprimed wicks are their own challenge.  I like high melt point wick priming to keep the wick from slumping and leaning in a melt pool. If using cored wicks that might not be as much of an issue. Flat wicks like cd, CDN, csn, eco, etc that are designed to curl are kinda floppy if not primed.

 

cottonwood have been doing well for me in blends with a fair amount of soy.  Think super small with these wicks. They’re really efficient at burning and will only self trim if sized right. Too big and you’ll start to see longer wick, small Carbon balling and soot later in a burn. The cotton wood wicks fray during burn, which initially bothered me a lot. Not any more. The fray seems to make the burn more efficient, allowing more surface area to combust fuel. 

[Arch Rock]

Totally agree that the pic provided is absolutely unacceptable.  My experience has been that few people trim the way they should between burnings and yet connoisseurs are willing to do so if they're properly educated.  Thinking of putting a "care and keeping of your new candle" sticker on the inside of the lid (with warning to remove before replacing lid of course!).  I hear you about the cons of delving into untreated wicks.  I'm hoping the CDNs will help me dial-in better and prove that my blend may have more veggies than paraffin.  Like dress sizes, I wish CDs came in size 13, 15, and 17!  I need to wick my Premiers much lower and you are 100% right on the cottonwoods.  I'm getting over the weird fraying too.  This unusual presentation might become a conversation-starter.  People love new stuff as long as it works!  Just FYI, if you happen to use Lonestar's Mandarin-Cranberry, a Cottonwood 40 is drowning at 6% which I did not expect.  Back to the drawing board.  Once again, thank you for this board and your acumen.

[Laura C]

On 11/3/2018 at 11:01 AM, TallTayl said:

I don’t mind a bit of flicker and dance, but it’s not allowed to be a smoky dragon. 

I agree with @TallTayl, I try to avoid soot on the jar or soot/smoke from the wick at all costs. Don't like it at all, makes me think "low quality". If I purchased a candle and I couldn't get it to stop sooting, I'd be very irritated.

 

As for some flickering, it should only occur once the candle has melted down deep into the container, unless it's in a draft. As far as I know, there is no way to avoid the "chimney effect" with container candles unless you use a candle topper. If anyone knows other tricks then please share.

 

I love lighting a brand new candle that is properly wicked and seeing a nice steady flame. 🔥

Edited November 5, 2018 by Laura C

[bfroberts]

38 minutes ago, Laura C said:

I agree with @TallTayl, I try to avoid soot on the jar or soot/smoke from the wick at all costs. Don't like it at all, makes me think "low quality". If I purchased a candle and I couldn't get it to stop sooting, I'd be very irritated.

 

As for some flickering, it should only occur once the candle has melted down deep into the container, unless it's in a draft. As far as I know, there is no way to avoid the "chimney effect" with container candles unless you use a candle topper. If anyone knows other tricks then please share.

 

I love lighting a brand new candle that is properly wicked and seeing a nice steady flame. 🔥

Yes, yes, yes!  ITA

I have pulled many a wick almost immediately after lighting if it misbehaved.  The first burn is when I expect to see the best burn.

[Arch Rock]

Thanks, guys.  I'm really struggling with wick selection which was a minor irritant 15 years ago when I was in business but now I'd rather chew on broken glass.

I did have an Aha! moment over the weekend.  My "new" line has no color additives.  I'm beginning to suspect that the reason why every wick I've tried is burning too hot

is that I'm not using color this time around.  Do you think liquid dyes might slow down absorption and consumption rates?  Is this the culprit?

[Arch Rock]

If my head was screwed on, I'd be dangerous.  I have completely failed to consider THE biggest variable of all - I changed jars.

I switched from a 16 oz Country Comfort to a 16 oz. straight-sided.  Duh.  That pinch in the neck of the comfort jar was keeping hot wicks contained.  The straight sides are increasing air flow and requiring me to wick down or change wicks altogether.  Thanks for letting me think out loud.