C. Rochelle Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 So, I've read quite a bit about the "Alex Method" for pouring soy candles... The process goes as follows: 1) Melt wax to no higher than 150 degrees F. 2) Once melted, add FO & Dye. 3) Let cool to 100 degrees F and pour into room temp containers. They claim the result should be a smooth finish with good adhesion and minimal frosting. I'm curious as to your thoughts on this method - pros..? cons..? Do you think it will effect liquid dye and FO binding as it should? I have tried it with some success on clamshell wax melts with GB 416, but when they pop out some look grainy (I may have also been in a hurry and poured at 120-ish); haven't decided if I can live with that yet...I used dye blocks with no issues, however liquid dye left the bottom half of my melts white. I'm playing with liquid dyes as we have a love/hate relationship 😜. (My impatience MAY keep me from stirring as long as I should, but I choose to blame the dye..) I'm debating about trying it with container candles. Right now I heat to about 165 then add dye/FO and pour around 130. I do have to even out tops occasionally. I've been making paraffin candles for approximately 2 years and just started dabbling with soy and am trying to find my bearings. Sorry for the lengthy post... Just a Newb trying to find her way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerven Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Here's an interesting post about FO binding (or lack of) in waxes. In short, it should be fine, but make sure you stir it well to fully incorporate the FO and dye. My perspective is that the main reason to heat to 185F is to ensure that all components of the wax have been melted. Some waxes have additives with melting points above 160F. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandleRush Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 I have tested the Alex method with straight coconut wax from Northwoods and did another blending coconut wax with 465 with excellent results. I found no difference between the Alex method and using manufacturers recommended pouring temps. I use the Alex method 95 percent of the time. I do stir f.o. a full 2 minutes with both methods. I set my timer! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crafty1_AJ Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 That method sounds like what I do, except I heat to about 165 - 175. I have good results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Well if it works for you at adding your oil at such a low temp, then I guess that is all that matters. I personally would't pour at that low temperature for fear of oil no binding. I'm assuming you have test burned all your candles and have found the throw to be great.....good for you! Trappeur...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandleRush Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Alex is connected to Nature’s Items, not sure how, maybe some of you know. Just discovered they are In Wisconsin and that’s where I am. The throws have been great, 8 or 9 percent f. O. Good thing I don’t have lots of money or time or I’d be trying everyone’s technique! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 8 hours ago, CandleRush said: Alex is connected to Nature’s Items, not sure how, maybe some of you know. Just discovered they are In Wisconsin and that’s where I am. The throws have been great, 8 or 9 percent f. O. Good thing I don’t have lots of money or time or I’d be trying everyone’s technique! At 8 or 9% I would expect the throw is good no matter what the method. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandleRush Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 True and after reading here that many of you use a lower percentage I will be testing f.o. at 6 %. I wonder if all this testing is why I’m drawn to candle making. Money running out very soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, CandleRush said: True and after reading here that many of you use a lower percentage I will be testing f.o. at 6 %. I wonder if all this testing is why I’m drawn to candle making. Money running out very soon! I hear you. Throw comes down to the wick mainly. Too hot and the fo can burn before having a chance to disperse away from the flame giving you heavy wax odor in the air. Too cold and it does not have enough energy to move up and away from the candle. Wick choice comes down to wax (obviously), container type and size. Containers that are taller than wide have a much better chance of throwing well than wide shallow. A chimney effect with taller containers will always throw harder and faster than containers without that type of shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandleRush Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 For sure! I’ve only been testing in tins so baby steps but can’t wait to tackle a larger container. Do you have a favorite size? I see how wicks matter. I’m attached to eco wicks but am branching out and going to test cd wicks but yes, the process is like an orchestra, each part important! Always appreciate your wisdom tall tayl along with others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Ah! Tins will always be a challenge to get quick early throw just because they are too wide and short. If you make a foil collar you’ll get some early throw by creating a chimney. Wicking them for the top often ends up too hot at the bottom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamabear Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 On 2/16/2019 at 8:50 AM, TallTayl said: I hear you. Throw comes down to the wick mainly. Too hot and the fo can burn before having a chance to disperse away from the flame giving you heavy wax odor in the air. Too cold and it does not have enough energy to move up and away from the candle. Wick choice comes down to wax (obviously), container type and size. Containers that are taller than wide have a much better chance of throwing well than wide shallow. A chimney effect with taller containers will always throw harder and faster than containers without that type of shape. Yes! So glad to hear someone else saying that the wick plays the main part in throw! I keep trying to tell people this, but it's always well it was burning fine, but no throw...well, try to wick up and as long as it's not burning too hot and you get good throw then go with that one!! That being said...I do love the Alex Method, maybe not because of throw, but I do get minimal frosting and awesome glass adhesion with it. Also, I'm pretty sure they pour melts right away and don't let them cool, the method is pretty much just for candles in a bigger container letting it cool and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 On 10/29/2018 at 1:12 PM, C. Rochelle said: So, I've read quite a bit about the "Alex Method" for pouring soy candles... The process goes as follows: 1) Melt wax to no higher than 150 degrees F. 2) Once melted, add FO & Dye. 3) Let cool to 100 degrees F and pour into room temp containers. They claim the result should be a smooth finish with good adhesion and minimal frosting. I'm curious as to your thoughts on this method - pros..? cons..? Do you think it will effect liquid dye and FO binding as it should? I have tried it with some success on clamshell wax melts with GB 416, but when they pop out some look grainy Grainy soy is because it cooled too slowly. The Alex method is somewhat similar to what Ive shared about my processes, but you have to control the cool RATE. When it’s time to scale up production controlling the melt to temp is less simple. Larger melters fluctuate quite a bit and develop hotter spots. Melt to whatever temp your wax needs, Control the cool and the finish will be good in melts and containers. For some soy wax blends 100*F will be solid in the pot. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamabear Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 50 minutes ago, TallTayl said: Grainy soy is because it cooled too slowly. The Alex method is somewhat similar to what Ive shared about my processes, but you have to control the cool RATE. When it’s time to scale up production controlling the melt to temp is less simple. Larger melters fluctuate quite a bit and develop hotter spots. Melt to whatever temp your wax needs, Control the cool and the finish will be good in melts and containers. For some soy wax blends 100*F will be solid in the pot. True on all of it, but the Alex Method is supposed to be just for 464. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 My two cents. We need to remember that our waxes are not pure; the manufacture added things to the wax and we don’t know what they are. So we can’t know the chemistry of the wax. I suspect that if 150⁰ was all the wax needed to be heated to they would say that; who wouldn’t want to only need to heat to 150⁰? I suspect following the manufacture’s recommendations will give you the best results, but if you are happy with the results you get from other methods then why not use them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, Forrest said: My two cents. We need to remember that our waxes are not pure; the manufacture added things to the wax and we don’t know what they are. So we can’t know the chemistry of the wax. I suspect that if 150⁰ was all the wax needed to be heated to they would say that; who wouldn’t want to only need to heat to 150⁰? I suspect following the manufacture’s recommendations will give you the best results, but if you are happy with the results you get from other methods then why not use them? Very true. Midwest soy is supposedly free from additives, and they do recommend that heating temp. Cooling rate is still an issue. As for only being for 464, soy is inherently soy. Crystal formation in soy wax is predictably unpredictable. Slow cool can and does generate larger soy crystal formation. That being said, unless your work area is identical to the one used in the Alex method, and your technique, exact lot of wax, fo, etc. then you will always have variations in the outcome. Same for anything chemistry related, right? Even box mix cake differs from kitchen to kitchen depending on who makes it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, TallTayl said: predictably unpredictable Isn't that pretty much true of everything related to candle making. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Ditto. Trappeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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