birdcharm Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 I'm kind of posting prematurely, as I have not been able to view this entire video I spotted, so I will need to come back. However, I spotted this on a youtube sidebar and thought I'd click on it just to see what it was about. I only watched the first minute or so, but there was a comment made in the video about when to add scent to GW464 (Akosoy 5702-02-02) -- they are advising to add f/o after the wax has cooled considerably. In some ways, this seems to go against what I've learned about adding f/o's to get them to bind properly -- but, maybe I'm wrong. So, I thought I'd post it and I'll watch it more later and then maybe this could be helpful to others and myself. I usually don't like to either watch or critique these types of video, btw, but the topic of when is the best time to add scent has caught my attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdcharm Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) I've watched the video and I must say that things in the video are not done as I do them. There was a deep melt pool at two hours. I've never used wooden wicks, but it seems as though they are too big for the container. The f/o is used at 12% and I think it was added at about 125dF, I'm not sure, but I don't want to watch it again to confirm that -- it was added just before the wax started to cloud. It was not a surprise that the candle that was permitted to cure for a few days had better throw than the one that was burned at less than 24 hours, although the claim in this video is that the one that cured the longest was not different than the one that only cured for a few days. My thought about it is that the wick is too large for the container; 12% f/o is too high for a wick that large; the f/o should be added sooner; and the candles need to cure at least for several days. A comment is made about the duration of time between when the f/o is added at a higher temp. to when it is poured ... I have felt that during this time the f/o is blending with the wax -- the opinion of the video is that the scent is somehow being lost. I'm not so sure this is the case. I've only worked with soy wax for a few years now (much longer with other waxes), so if anyone has some input about this, I'd love to hear it! Edited October 8, 2018 by birdcharm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Black Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I have thought about this as well. If you actually watch another of their videos he goes on to explain that if you add your FO at higher temps and let cool before pouring, you are essentially burning off all of your fragrance during that cool off period. His advice is to cool the wax THEN add your fo when it begins to set up which to me sounds opposite considering that the wax will be too cool for the oil and wax molecules to combine properly on a scientific level. I really wish TT could watch this and chime in and science the snot out of this for us, since she knows the actual SCIENCE involved in this. Video: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Black Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 There is also another company on youtube that suggests the same thing. Skip to about the 1:50 mark in this and have a listen. Video: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfroberts Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 It's hogwash. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdcharm Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 @Clear Black, I watched the videos ... thanks for your thoughts on this! It really seems to me that the f/o does not lose potency as the candle is cooling. Perhaps with essential oils, this may be true, but I really don't think it is with fragrance oils and I feel that they are created to be blended with hot wax. I've always allowed my wax to cool down just a bit from the highest temperature before adding f/o, but nothing like is being suggested in that video. On the second video, they didn't mention any temperatures, but I found it interesting that they do not press down their wick tabs when securing them (something I typically do) and that they move a poured candle (something I try to never do) ... I noticed as they were packing one into a box, that it didn't have a clean "meet" between wax and glass, that there was a little (sloppy) area where wax had moved up the glass due to being moved. P.S. I'm not sharing this type of info to criticize videos, but to discuss information that may be provided that could possibly be inaccurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Black Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 @birdcharm Like I said above, if you start watching at the 1:50 mark you can hear and see them adding FO when the batch in the stockpot is cloudy. No mention of actual temps, but when soy gets cloudy its typically below 110*. Mine gets cloudy at 105* and no way in heck am I adding my FO at that temp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansmommaya Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 On 10/8/2018 at 7:55 PM, Clear Black said: There is also another company on youtube that suggests the same thing. Skip to about the 1:50 mark in this and have a listen. Video: This video is going to bring me nightmares of working at the big candle company I worked for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdcharm Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Clear Black said: @birdcharm Like I said above, if you start watching at the 1:50 mark you can hear and see them adding FO when the batch in the stockpot is cloudy. No mention of actual temps, but when soy gets cloudy its typically below 110*. Mine gets cloudy at 105* and no way in heck am I adding my FO at that temp The wax was getting cloudy as you say ... I agree with you that there is "no way" I would add my scent at that low a temp. My initial feeling is that I personally don't trust it and also would not add scent to a wax that is that cool for fear that if it did not bind with the wax that some would sink toward the bottom of the candle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 The second video (danielle’s) could be stable given how much beeswax is in that soy blend. Beeswax stabilizes other oils fairly well, but presents it own set of challenges. The video on my small screen seemed to have solidified bits during the pour. That “could” have been cold drops of fragrance in wax that did not completely mix into the pot. Beeswax is funny like that. It can create globs that need to be heated out. has anyone burned that brand of candle? A double wicked tumbler seems kinda hot to me (especially toward the tapered bottom with a hot glue dot holding it all together), but without trying it I’ll reserve judgement. She seems to have a very successful product range. ETA: does it seem like an unusually large staff to make candles pouring using rulers? One to measure. One to move. One to pour... and slooooooow. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandlekrazy Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) I'm baffled. The first video makes some sense but goes against everything I was ever taught. I'm going to test this in C3 with a scent that I know does not throw well just for my own curiosity. The no cure time though or little cure time I know I've tested that 1000 times and the longer they sit the better they throw so??? Maybe 464 or whatever he was using. 2nd video, the all Organic, really????????? Edited October 10, 2018 by kandlekrazy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 I know from my own anecdotal tests that a few weeks sure do make a difference in how my candles burn, let alone throw. I am seeing up to a full wick size difference. The plural of anecdote is not data, so this one video really doesn’t mean all that much, does it? It’s one opinion among scores. Ambient conditions also play a role, so just sitting candles in a bathroom don’t tell The Whole story. But if that video makes people happy, well then goody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runner14jc Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 I think that with some fragrances you can get away with not having any cure time, however, I have personally tested other fragrances that have no hot throw at day 3 but are super strong 1 week later. I feel the same way about temperature to add fragrance at. There are some fragrances that can add in at a lower temp and be just fine, but there are other fragrances that if added too low they don't bind to the wax and end up seeping out of the wax. It just makes more sense to me to cover my bases by adding fragrances at 185°F and to cure for at least a week that way I know every single fragrance will be good instead of trying to do different practices for each and every fragrance. Personally, I stand by that cure time is necessary and beneficial in most cases. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdcharm Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 2 hours ago, kandlekrazy said: .... 2nd video, the all Organic, really????????? Oh yeah, I was thinking about that! I even mentioned that to my husband. Nope ... not unless they have their own soy farm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runner14jc Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 36 minutes ago, birdcharm said: Oh yeah, I was thinking about that! I even mentioned that to my husband. Nope ... not unless they have their own soy farm! hahaha, even then, soy wax can't be organic. It goes through a chemical process to turn the soybean oil into a wax....organic soy wax is NOT possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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