Quentin Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 I've got plenty of notes. If I'm not clear on something, please ask me for more info. Here are the basic facts: My factory, as I think I mentioned before, is in my garage with no air conditioning and no insulation. Extremely hot and oppressively humid as always. The temperature in the garage when I started working at 8:00 PM was 84 F. A perfect end to a miserably hot day. That was before I started to melt, which then made it even hotter in there. I'm giving you this information now, because it relates to my question that's coming soon. I promise. I'll be as brief as I can. *Wax: GB 464. No additional additives whatsoever. *Dye: Lone Star dye block. Color Purple. *Frag: Peak brand, Island Nectar. 8% Load. *What you see in the picture is the same mix from the same pot but poured one night, then the leftovers remelted & poured under nearly identical conditions the next night. *All the proper temps for adding dye and fragrance were in line with manufacturer's specs & from what I've gathered from the forum here. (185 F). The pour temperature was in the recommended range for GB 464, but it was so hot out there I had too wait a bit for it to cool low enough to pour. The plan was to pour six 12 oz size status jars (upper left) to use up a partial bag of wax, clean up the work area, then call it a night. Then the drama started. As I mentioned above, I started working at 8:00 PM. I finished pouring, started cleaning up the work area while watching the candles cool. I was still watching them cool a little over 4 hours later at 12:06 AM! I had read a "helpful tip" on the Lone Star website that said to allow 464 wax to cool as slowly as possible and NOT DO ANYTHING to accelerate the cooling process. No refrigerators, water baths or anything like that is what they said. Moving them through the door right next to the work area into the air conditioned, low humidity house would have been an instant acceleration of around 12 degrees. At 12:24 AM I covered them with a cloth, left them in the garage and went to bed. Early the next morning, before it started to get hot again, I went out to check on them and they were beautiful. Smooth, no wet spots, nice. Two of the six did have that hole around the wick. I felt it was safe to bring them inside and they still look great a week later. That very next night, I remelted the leftovers and poured them into the smaller fluted jars with the terrible results you see in the picture. Being a smaller jar, they cooled down faster. Finally, here is my question: What could have happened to the leftover wax during the night and the next day to get such different and horrible results in the little jar? and... why the hole around the wick in the bigger jar. I didn't think that was supposed to happen with soy? ### Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Posted September 28, 2018 Author Share Posted September 28, 2018 Ahhh. I've finally stumped you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerven Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Hole around the wick is probably from pouring too hot. I poured 464 on the hot side because I couldn't be bothered to wait for it to cool down and I almost always had that happen, especially in the batches right before soy hit the fan. Then again, I also allowed them to cool down a bit quicker than desired after pouring, so that may have shocked them some. Pouring cooler allows the wax to begin setting up prior to pouring (some call it the "slushy" stage) which helps to lessen some of the shrinkage and pulling away. Everyone has a method that works for them, I guess. I've only seen frosted tops similar to those when reheating the surface with a blow dryer (in a futile effort to remove the holes). My guess would be a temperature fluctuation, pouring too cool (it's a thing), moisture in the wax, or the surface partially melting after setting. By chance was the humidity higher the second night? Had it rained? Maybe the cool down was too slow and crystals grew... It almost looks like what happened to me once when I poured far too cool, a little beyond the slushy stage. You got me with that one. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Quote That very next night, I remelted the leftovers and poured them into the smaller fluted jars with the terrible results you see in the picture. Being a smaller jar, they cooled down faster. Your answer is right there. The hole around the wick means it was likely poured too hot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Just another horror story to tell the children around the campfire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Posted September 28, 2018 Author Share Posted September 28, 2018 18 hours ago, TallTayl said: Your answer is right there. What can I do to avoid that next time? I would have never expected such a dramatic difference. 18 hours ago, Kerven said: Hole around the wick is probably from pouring too hot. 18 hours ago, TallTayl said: The hole around the wick means it was likely poured too hot. I'll buy that. Like I said, it was miserably hot in the garage. Did I blindly follow Lone Star's instructions to "not accelerate the cooling process, perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdcharm Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 On 9/23/2018 at 9:54 PM, Quentin said: What could have happened to the leftover wax during the night and the next day to get such different and horrible results in the little jar? I think you may have reheated the leftover amount and poured it over those candles at too high a temperature so you got a marbled frosting effect. When doing a top pour, it's especially important to really let the wax really cool down (if it's soy wax) ... to get a clean appearance (no lines on the side of the container) and less risk of any cracking, lightly use a heat gun on the candle before doing your repour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Posted September 29, 2018 Author Share Posted September 29, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, birdcharm said: you got a marbled frosting effect. That sounds a whole lot better than what actually happened. Let me clarify the time frame. I didn't explain that very well. I spent too much time telling y'all about the first night which was Saturday. All I originally intended was to pour the six status jars and that's all I did. Then there was the four hour period of waiting for them to solidify. They didn't. I was tired and it was late. I had a nice amount of leftover wax in the pot. I covered the pot and leftover wax with wax paper and a rubber band around the top and left it there on the workbench with the status jars to cool overnight. I stopped for the night and went to bed. When I woke in the morning (Sunday) they had turned out just fine, other than the holes around the wicks on two of the six candles. End of "Event 1". ------------------------------------------------ I went through the whole day on Sunday doing other stuff.-------------------- That brings us to Sunday night and... "Event 2" Sunday night I decided to use the leftover for something (anything). The little fluted jars were right there so I grabbed them, wicked them, heated them with the heat gun while the leftover from the night before was melting. I filled as many of the fluted jars as possible. This was done using the same instructions and procedures and under the same hot conditions in the garage. I did make one exception to the process. The exception was that I re-melted only up to the recommended pour temperature, NOT all the way back up to the top point. My thinking went something like this: "I already mixed the wax and fragrance at the proper temperature last night, so why go hotter and possibly damage the fragrance?" Not knowing whether it was even possible to damage the fragrance, I played it safe. We can now conclude that we have--- A) Two separate events. Different nights. C) Same wax/dye/fragrance mixture. D) Nearly identical working conditions and E) I did make one exception to the process. 6 hours ago, birdcharm said: When doing a top pour, it's especially important to really let the wax really cool down As you can now see, there was no top pour. Only a re-melt and using up the leftover wax poured into empty jars. We're going to call it as you said "a marbled frosting effect". I like the sound of that. Edited September 29, 2018 by Quentin Removed needless word. Getting tired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Posted September 29, 2018 Author Share Posted September 29, 2018 22 minutes ago, Quentin said: Different nights. I got tired, over edited, got cut off, and that stupid emoji with the glasses is supposed to be a letter B. Don't know how that happened. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 On 9/27/2018 at 10:03 PM, Kerven said: By chance was the humidity higher the second night? Had it rained? Maybe the cool down was too slow and crystals grew... It almost looks like what happened to me once when I poured far too cool, a little beyond the slushy stage. You got me with that one. As I mentioned, the conditions were similar, but that's about as much as I can tell you from looking at my notes. I always make a note of the ambient temperature, but the humidity, no! Didn't use a heat gun on them at all. I was tempted to do that. As far as the cool down being too slow, somewhere in this thread I mentioned that the messed up ones cooled much faster than the "good" ones. We may never know what happened here, but you've given me a good excuse to go on Amazon and buy a humidity gauge. In a couple of days, they will be cured and I'll report how they burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdcharm Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 On 9/28/2018 at 11:26 PM, Quentin said: I had a nice amount of leftover wax in the pot. I covered the pot and leftover wax with wax paper and a rubber band around the top Say that part again .... 🤫 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdcharm Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 On 9/27/2018 at 10:03 PM, Kerven said: moisture in the wax I think Kerven guessed it!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerven Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 IDK. If it was covered with wax paper, I suppose moisture could have been introduced while uncovered. I'd suggest melting down those candles and repouring just to rule moisture out, although some of the moisture, if present, may be "cooked off" during the remelt. After reading that the wax wasn't brought to maximum melting temp, I'm inclined to think that may have been the culprit. Bringing it to 180-190F allows all the components, such as the naturally occurring stearic and palmitic acids, to fully melt and redistribute. The unmelted components may have encourage rapid crystal growth, resulting in the frosted surface. That's not to say the humidity had no part in it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 On 10/1/2018 at 9:33 PM, Kerven said: IDK. If it was covered with wax paper, I suppose moisture could have been introduced while uncovered. I'd suggest melting down those candles and repouring just to rule moisture out, although some of the moisture, if present, may be "cooked off" during the remelt. After reading that the wax wasn't brought to maximum melting temp, I'm inclined to think that may have been the culprit. Bringing it to 180-190F allows all the components, such as the naturally occurring stearic and palmitic acids, to fully melt and redistribute. The unmelted components may have encourage rapid crystal growth, resulting in the frosted surface. That's not to say the humidity had no part in it. You could have it figured out there, Kerven. It's plausible. On 10/1/2018 at 9:33 PM, Kerven said: it was covered with wax paper, Condensation during the night maybe. I have three of them that are now fully "cured". I don't want to melt them down. Matter of fact, I'm going to light up at least one of them, just to see what happens. Maybe one of them will explode! Now THAT would be exciting. It might blow steam up in the air like Old Faithful. That would be pretty cool too. Hopefully, I'll have my cellphone handy and catch the video. Snatch victory from the cruel jaws of defeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 On 10/1/2018 at 7:23 PM, birdcharm said: I covered the pot and leftover wax with wax paper The minute I pushed the Submit Reply button, I said to myself "Hmm. Someone is gonna pick up on that one." It's like firing a rifle or pistol, once you pull the trigger, you can't call it back. But hey, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 On 10/1/2018 at 7:25 PM, birdcharm said: I think Kerven guessed it!! I think it's a possibility. Now for the fun part of testing. Wish me luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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