What do you think of this meeting?

[bfroberts]

Trapp, you make beautiful, high quality products.  Even with the same supplies, they can't compete with you overnight.  If they put out a product quickly and it goes up against yours, it will pale in comparison. You know that.

 

I would cut ties with these people immediately, but I'd try not to end on a sour note.  Who knows what these bozos might do.  They've already shown their lack of scruples.

 

Keep doing what you do.  There may be a few bumps in the road ahead, but such is life.  I believe there is a certain kind of karma in business.  You'll land on the right side of it. 

 

[Sunday]

18 hours ago, Quentin said:

Coming up with different names can be really tough. I'm always coming across a candle I made that had a great scent. I forgot to write it down. Back to the names, I still can't come up with any clever name for Lavender except "Lavender

how about  calling your Lavender...Tuscan Summer ,...Provence ...Tuscan afternoon ..sleepytime...

[Hopie]

11 hours ago, ShelleyF said:

I know it isn't happening. I haven't been doing it for years but I've done lots of research and many mistakes. I have my wax formula finally right and people want you to tell them your secrets. No way. Why would we do that? One lady had nerve to ask what supplier I got my Love Spell from so she could buy the oil to just diffuse it instead of buying melts. I told her there are many suppliers that sell it. Most  Love Spell are similar and grapefruits but I love the one that isn't. It's magical the one I've found and I tried 7 different ones before finding it. I was upset because she bought one and she picked right and got the right one the first time. Yes you guessed it. She only diffuses now and doesn't buy melts. Said she loves it and is saving money. I was so mad and sad that someone could do that. 

 

If she's THAT cheap, she isn't your customer anyways 

[Hopie]

11 hours ago, ShelleyF said:

 

lol I will have to do that. I do tell people it's my secret but something about Grandma might work better.

 

I haven't renamed Lavender yet but how about Soft Lavender if it's a lighter one which I have some lighter ones or Loud Lavender lol or Bold Lavender if it's very overpowering. I'm grasping at straws here lol

I renamed Nag Champa The 1960's

 

Just a quick note about renaming Nag Champa...I wouldn't. People seek Nag Champa, and I sell a lot of it. The 1960's doesn't tell them what it is. 

[ncraiders]

11 hours ago, ShelleyF said:

 

lol I will have to do that. I do tell people it's my secret but something about Grandma might work better.

 

I haven't renamed Lavender yet but how about Soft Lavender if it's a lighter one which I have some lighter ones or Loud Lavender lol or Bold Lavender if it's very overpowering. I'm grasping at straws here lol

I renamed Nag Champa The 1960's

If the fragrance name is not trademarked but you wanna name it something different you might consider adding the actual fragrance name in () below whatever you change the name to that way people can  associate your fragrance name with the name of the fragrance they already know and love.

[moonshine]

Maybe I missed this part but how do you know they have the exact same stuff as you from this supplier if you did not divulge that information to them?  

Did the supplier tell you it was the same stuff

 

Creeps....I would jump start talking to your accounts and letting them know what these people are up to and how despicable and deceitful they are because you know likely the next step in the game is to ruin your name in attempt to get your accounts 

 

 

[Hopie]

I hope this phone call/visit goes well. Tell them in no uncertain terms that you are no longer willing to "do business" with them due to their sneaky, devious ways. Tell them to "have fun" trying to duplicate your candles, because they will not be successful...because they are not YOU!  I would also pay a visit to you local accounts, and tell them...without too many details...what has occurred with these people. No one wants to do business with a SNAKE! 

 

I remember at one venue we used to do that there was a couple that saw my incense and body oils on the tables. A few months later, THEY had incense and body oils. I stopped by and mentioned, "Oh, I didn't know you sold incense TOO?". Yes, he said, we've made and sold it "for years". Ummm...NO. What they had was manufactured stuff that you can find online anywhere, and I knew where they got it. Soooo...as time went by, it had no effect on my sales...because mine was a better product! Same thing happened at another venue, who started selling the "berry company's" incense. They disappeared after only a few months. WHY? They had the product in the open air, not packaged in plastic (which is totally necessary to preserve the oils, or they dry out!) 

 

I ran into that first guy about a month ago, and guess what? He was no longer selling incense and his cheap, stinky body oils, LOL! As a matter of fact, his booth was directly across from ours at this mountaintop craft show! He sat there, alllll day...watching us BAG a ton of merchandise, while he made only $100 lousy dollars the entire day! Karma is a Bellatrix, 'eh? 

 

So, I would relax, Trappeur, and do the lovely things you do, have no communication with those vile people, and Karma will happen...you won't have to lift a finger. AND, Karma is divine! 

[Trappeur]

22 hours ago, Quentin said:

I'm not so sure I agree. I've become a cynical 60 year old man and getting more cynical all the time. It just seems to me that they would have at least taken the tour of Trapp's facility if they were really interested in starting their own candle company. 

Taken a tour of my facility?.....oh my Quentin....that is something to be seen..

.First they have to get past the Skunk eating on the table with the raccoon and the possum drooling from his mouth and them all together.  Wouldn't that be something and then to look down under the table where the skunk was eating and see a box of wax sitting right under the skunk????  Now how impressive would that be? ha ha  Real professional factory here I would say, wouldn't you?  Yeah everyone!  Come on down to Traps Cabin...your in for a special type of treatment today....so hurry on down....Right...

 

Trappeur

PS:   I'm not a slob you guys.....really...just funny things always seem to be happening in my life lately.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Trappeur

[ncraiders]

2 minutes ago, Trappeur said:

Taken a tour of my facility?.....oh my Quentin....that is something to be seen..

.First they have to get past the Skunk eating on the table with the raccoon and the possum drooling from his mouth and them all together.  Wouldn't that be something and then to look down under the table where the skunk was eating and see a box of wax sitting right under the skunk.  Now how impressive would that be? ha ha  Real professional factory here I would say, wouldn't you?

 

Trappeur

PS:   I'm not a slob you guys.....really...just funny things always seem to be happening in my life lately.

if it works for you it is professional enough.  we all have our own idea on what professional really is anyways.

[bfroberts]

Believe it or not, Trapp, a lot of people would love the fact that you are producing candles in a mountain cabin while skunks and possums and raccoons are dining at your front door.  Maybe you should do a skunk themed line of odor eliminating candles.  

 

[ShelleyF]

42 minutes ago, ncraiders said:

If the fragrance name is not trademarked but you wanna name it something different you might consider adding the actual fragrance name in () below whatever you change the name to that way people can  associate your fragrance name with the name of the fragrance they already know and love.

I was thinking about doing g that. Wasn't sure because a million people sell Love Spell. I want to be different. So I need to stay the same as everyone else?  I really need to know. I want to make money. 

[ShelleyF]

48 minutes ago, Hopie said:

 

Just a quick note about renaming Nag Champa...I wouldn't. People seek Nag Champa, and I sell a lot of it. The 1960's doesn't tell them what it is. 

Ok I will change it back. I hate that scent lol but  want to make money.

[TallTayl]

@Trappeur the horse is already out of the barn. Calling to confront won’t do much good, will it? You know what happened. They know what happened. There’s no winner in a confrontation. When they call for advice, use few words and brush them off. I highly doubt they.l place another order. If they do, raise the minimums quite a bit. Require 24 or more per scent, for instance. No onesie twosie of each fragrance. 

 

Now, contacting your accounts to alert of a new game moving into town might not be horrible. Some accounts might be AOK with a total newcomer if the price is right. Willing to bet they will try to undercut your WS price to get “your” business. I tend to stand my ground on those, knowing full well the WS comes back to me every time. Then I raise prices.

[ShelleyF]

5 hours ago, Trappeur said:

Well, I just had something happen from a phone call I just got from a supplier that is like a bomb just went off in my house of what transpired between this person and the supplier that has hit me like a lead balloon.   I'm so upset and my hands are shaking I can't even type here.   Will come back as soon as I can calm down.   I just can't believe what has taken place.

 

Trappeur

I'm sad to hear this. Will be praying for you.

[bfroberts]

I would contact your accounts to give them a heads up.  Since these guys did buy some of your product to wholesale (did they actually do that?), your accounts need to be clear that any product these people produce is not your product.  I don't know if they will still be peddling the product they bought from you or if they will duplicate it or whatever, but either way, there needs to be no question that whatever comes out of their production is not yours.  I'd present it to your accounts from that angle.  

 

Yeah, they will try to undercut your prices, I'm sure.  I don't know that it will be a big deal though because it's going to be an inferior product, at least initially because they have no idea what they are doing.  The internet has made everyone a "crafter"....unfortunately.  

 

Lastly, if these people are as ruthless as they seem, they probably have a grand plan.  They probably think they will get their product in stores, achieve success and then open their own store.  So in the end, their game has the potential to affect other businesses too.  As a candle maker, I don't think you have anything to worry about.  I believe your product will stand out as the superior one.  I just hate people that do this kind of dirty, under-handed, back-stabbing kind of thing.  But you'll ride it out.  The cream always rises to the top

[ellajoan]

I am angry for you!  With all of the help and advice you give to us, it makes me mad that your vendors (your bread and butter) are basically trying to steal from you.  I agree with the previous poster who said you needed to warn your other accounts of what these folks are trying to do.  Wishing you luck, a clear head, and articulate speech when you confront these people.  Bad eggs, indeed.  Karma will catch up with them.   

[Trappeur]

Well guys, I made the dreadful call and had a very uncomfortable discussion for over a good 1/2 hour......I'm finished and done with them....

I'll tell you all about it after I come back from feeding the animals and eat something myself.

 

You would be proud of me as I took everyone's advice.....

 

Trappeur

[Sunday]

Can't believe how fast these little bugger work..definitely on a mission.

But Honestly Trapp if you and I were given the same candle making supplies Your candles would be way better and prettier and more suited to your venues than anything I could make and I have some experience...So how they think they are going to compete with you starting from square one is a total wonder to me! Not sure how they could have gotten to your supplier so quickly unless they got info from this site (that would make sense to me...you have always been an open book and super helpful to everyone on here)...and I'm going to hazard a guess but I think your vender spilled the beans although probably without intent. ...they are dealing with a couple of wylye coyotes !

Now am I the only one that wants to know the name of their website hahahaha

[GoldieMN]

1 hour ago, bfroberts said:

Believe it or not, Trapp, a lot of people would love the fact that you are producing candles in a mountain cabin while skunks and possums and raccoons are dining at your front door.  Maybe you should do a skunk themed line of odor eliminating candles.  

 

Yes!  The "Pepe Le Pew" line! 

[ncraiders]

9 minutes ago, GoldieMN said:

Yes!  The "Pepe Le Pew" line! 

I love it!  Were can I buy one?

[Sponiebr]

Speaking of Goldie's idea there Trapp... Get that bag of cat food and run a trail of kibble down to their cabin. Lead that skunk right up under their house. 

[Hopie]

Bellatrix?   BRILLIANT! Of course, being the curious person I am...I had to look that up and read about it! Thank you for making me laugh my azz off...I'm guessing...TallTayl? You are one clever woman! 

[Trappeur]

As promised, I will give an update and have sent an email to them which you can read on the next post down in a few minutes.

 

Trappeur

[ScentedPleasurez]

5 hours ago, Sunday said:

 

Now am I the only one that wants to know the name of their website hahahaha

No you are not lol

[Trappeur]

It was a hectic day for me to say the least and I have walked away from this situation and will not do business with these people.   We had a lengthy discussion and I expressed my feelings about this whole situation.   I sent them this email a while ago as they emailed me to tell me that he took my candles off website.   So be it.....

 

Thankyou everyone for your help and support.

 

 

Jerry,

 

I have never had anything like this happen to me ever and as per our phone discussion I am very unhappy with what has transpired with what could have been a very nice lucrative business between the two of us.  If you had only been up front and honest with me about what your intentions were I would have respected you for this.  The fact that when we started our conversation on the phone and I asked you if you had planned on making the candles yourself, you and Suzanne,  or the possibility of you wanting someone or me to supply the labor and just listening to you of which you stated no, I gave you all the opportunity to have told me that you had gone to one of my suppliers xxxxxxxxx and bought the supplies that I use for my candles and used my name as the person who would be making your candles just so you could find out what waxes, etc I ordered from them was so totally unprofessional and I truly felt was very deceitful.  But you never mentioned a word to me about going there upon phone conversation..  You have no idea how violated I felt when I received a phone call from my supplier saying you had come to their factory to purchase and did and get information on the products I use and then I had to tell you this.  

 

 I have many many years in this business of testing to perfect a safely well made product of a candle that I am very proud of.  I've spent thousands of dollars and years of learning the art of candle making that I absolutely love to create which is a passion of mine.   I have pedaled the pavement to secure the fabulous accounts that I have here in Blue Ridge and the surrounding towns of carefully selected stores that I felt my candles would be so deserving of to be in as I am a very selective person and will not sell to just anyone.  The stores that I sell to I have worked very hard for and each one has their own designer jar that I came up with for them and each store has their own private custom designed label that I have worked endless hours to create for them so that each store could be unique, special and have one of a kind candles that I have tried to be as different than the normal candle that you see in most shops.    I have never not once let any of my accounts down and always gone above and beyond.  I actually tried as you know when we first met to do that for you also by many hours designing a private label for you that you would be proud of to have on your candles to offer to the public, but you advised me that you would be designing your own label which was perfectly fine with me and I adjusted my pricing on the candle due to this fact.  When I saw your label after it was completed and you had taken pictures of for your new website you were launching the label even stated "Poured by Boomer-Life"...so what does that tell me?  Evidently you were going to be making your own candles and not me....And even that, I didn't make a big deal over and let it go.  Just you asking so many questions of the details of what I used in my candles from the names of my suppliers to all the ingredients of what into my candles to how many candles I can make out of a box of wax just was not the normal thing to ask of someone making a product and I don't give out this information to anyone as it is my business for me to know and I have my own formula just like Yankee Candle and all the big name suppliers as well as the little guys such as me.

 

You say candle making is an easy thing that you can learn as you have seen you tube videos and have learned much and from candle sites also.  As I went into detailed information on this subject as it is not something that you can learn in a week, a month, and even a year or more to perfect this art.  I take my candle business very seriously.  I still don't understand the reasoning of why you went and bought from my supplier the waxes, oils, wicks etc.that I use.   You said you are going to test run the way I make my candles as maybe you might want to go with another wax and come up with something that you like better after your done testing.    How in the world could you possibly do that when you know nothing about candles as you told me?   You did tell me you bought candles from other suppliers to test them against mine and the final outcome was my candle won out over these other companies and you just loved them and wanted my line of candles?   None of this makes sense to me.....but it's done and it is what it is and you can do anything that you want like you told me..So be it.

 

When I asked why you wanted to open up accounts with my suppliers and you order all my waxes and you pay them directly I couldn't understand why and then you said to save on shipping and to help me out.    They are not my only supplier.  I order waxes from other companies out of the state.  My oils, wicks and other supplies I need also come from all over from California to New York to Georgia.

The way I work is that when I sell wholesale, sometimes I will ask for a deposit if the order is very large as at times I need a little assistance financially as I can't handle huge huge orders and lay out the funds because as you know I am not a big company but basically a one person operation.  I ask for deposits when needed just as you gave me your deposit when you placed your order with me.  So why would you not do the same thing?   I am not a fly by night company.  I've been in this business for 15 plus years.  As you know, I had my own home furnishings store for 10 years.   By trade I'm an interior designer, had my own drapery workroom, and had contractors that worked for me full time.   I've lived here for 30 years and am well respected, trust worthy and very honest.   And that is the way I run my business.  You said that you expect a return phone call within an hour if you happen to call and the phone is not answered by me.  I'm sorry, but this is quite odd that if I don't call you back within an hour I'm not a business person as that is how you work...... Are you kidding me?   I may be working on orders, I may be out on a delivery or just might not even be here when you have called.   I work from my home and when you stated this to me, I was quite taken back by this statement you made to me.

 

Bottom line is I wished you had been up front and honest with me as I have been with you.  I believe in my heart that you wanted to get this candle line in gear and the works and you were trying to get the candles made as cheaply as possible and I can understand why.    In order for you to wholesale to accounts you need to be selling to them at what I sell to you and that is just not going to happen with you buying from me.   The only way that I know for you to do that is make the candles yourself or have a little factory yourself.   It just wasn't right the way you went about this whole thing and I was very hurt and very taken back so it's in best interest that we part ways Jerry and Suzanne.   I'm sorry this did not work out for us.  I wish you both much success with your new business.

 

Sincerely,