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strugglebrother

Problems with room spray base

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We are turning our candle collection into room sprays.

 

First, we tried out Rustic Escentuals 'Fragrant Room & Body Spray' base... Around 3-5% fragrance is well enough to scent a whole room with only 3-4 sprays, and the fragrance stays at least for an hour which is great. BUT, there is a terrible smell to this base which ruins a lot of fragrances. You smell it straight away when sprayed and it takes about 5 minutes in the air until the fragrance actually smells like it should. So we had to scrap this as it's such a bad first impression of a room spray. We tested it with friends and they actually complained about that they couldn't take the fragrance after a while as it becomes so heavy due to the base.

 

Then, we tried fragrance oil (around 4-5%) + water (same ratio) and fill up with perfumers alcohol. This makes the fragrance smell exactly like it should when sprayed, very clean and lovely. This has unfortunately not the best longevity. It evaporates pretty quick and won't scent a room more than 10 minutes to 20 minutes depending on fragrance.

 

We can up the fragrance to 7-9% possibly but I'm wondering if there is something I can add to boost the longevity which is completely odorless? Clouding is not our biggest concern.

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I don't really have any advice, I'm sorry to say, I just started messing around with room sprays myself.

I did want to express my surprise over your impression of the RE room spray. I use that one myself as a body spray, I have gotten several gallons over the course of the past year or so, and I have never smelled the base at all. Maybe a very faint alcohol odor before the incorporation of fragrance, but if that's not what you mean then I'm pretty stumped. I only just started using it as a room spray, so my experience with it has been with lighter cologne and perfume type fragrances, so maybe it could the type of fragrance? 

So far I really like the sprays that I have made that contain 30% or more alcohol. The air dispersal is fantastic.

What kind of longevity are you aiming for? I'm curious because even when I use the super crazy industrial strong sprays like Febreeze and Glade, I can't smell them after 30 minutes or so either. I thought that was just normal? Or are my standards too low, lol.

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Essentials by Catalina usually has some wonderful bases.

 

I make my base using the AHRE FO/EO modifier, then use perfumers alcohol and water. Usually the base can get to clear if you play with the proportions.

 

Some people really like cyclomethicone in sprays. It is volatile, like alcohol, but can impart a silky feel.

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On 3/31/2018 at 3:01 PM, Sarah S said:

I don't really have any advice, I'm sorry to say, I just started messing around with room sprays myself.

I did want to express my surprise over your impression of the RE room spray. I use that one myself as a body spray, I have gotten several gallons over the course of the past year or so, and I have never smelled the base at all. Maybe a very faint alcohol odor before the incorporation of fragrance, but if that's not what you mean then I'm pretty stumped.

 

 

I thought exactly the same thing in the beginning. We made our room sprays with the base and initially we were really happy with them. I think we were lucky that a few fragrances masked the smell from the base.

 

Then our problems started. A few fragrances I have worked with for a few years smelled off in the base. I ordered some perfumers alcohol to test and when you have the base side by side to just perfumers alcohol you smell a HUGE difference OOB. I tried something simple as Candle Science Blue Spruce, one in Rustic's base and one in Perfumers Alcohol with the same ratio of water as the FO. It smells clean and very pleasant with only the alcohol but completely off in Rustic's base sprayed in the room.

 

Try a fragrance and blend it just with distilled water and do A/B test with the base and you will see.

 

It's one of those -You don't know how bad your old car is until you sit in a new.

 

With longevity, I mean 20 minutes... If it goes away after 5 minutes it's not great etc.

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On 3/31/2018 at 4:03 PM, TallTayl said:

Essentials by Catalina usually has some wonderful bases.

 

I make my base using the AHRE FO/EO modifier, then use perfumers alcohol and water. Usually the base can get to clear if you play with the proportions.

 

Some people really like cyclomethicone in sprays. It is volatile, like alcohol, but can impart a silky feel.

2

 

That is pretty much what we are doing now apart from the FO/EO modifier, we haven't had any clouding yet as we don't use that much water.

 

 

The Rustic base gives great longevity but with the downside of ruining the fragrance / smell.

 

Some of our fragrances work fine with just alcohol and water at 4% to 7% but a few of them don't have the same longevity, they are gone after a few minutes.

 

I can see that Rustic's base have: FDA approved SD Alcohol, Water, Glycerin, Propylene Glycol, Bensophenone-2.

 

Glycerine is, from what I understand, used to prevent the ingredients to separate and should be odorless.

Propylene Glycol I can see is used in a lot of bases but it's described as 'nearly' odorless.

Bensophenone-2 is used to protect from UV and are described to have a 'Geranium like' odor.

 

I wonder if the Propylene or Bensophenone are ruining scents in the base and I suppose the Propylene is there for longevity. Could be worth trying to add Propylene to just Perfumers Alcohol and water to test? I can definitely live with no UV protection.

 

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I think someone on here loves 

the roomspray base from the 

Candle Source ??? I was trying to find that thread but couldn't 

if I find it I'll repost 

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1 hour ago, Moonstar said:

I think someone on here loves 

the roomspray base from the 

Candle Source ??? I was trying to find that thread but couldn't 

if I find it I'll repost 

 

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of the base from The Candlemakers Store, as far as I know the Candle Source doesn't sell room spray (but I'm not 100% sure on that). The last time I checked, the Candlemaker's base has the exact same ingredient list as RE's. So I assume it's the same manufacturer. I believe EBC's base is also the same ingredients, so perhaps they are all the same?

 

@strugglebrother, now you have me thinking! I don't have perfumer's alcohol, but I have been using 190 proof grain alcohol in sprays and it has worked well so far. If I have time this week, I will try various combinations of ingredients to see what happens... The only one I don't have is the bensophenone, so that will be the knockout by default. So it's the glycerine that keeps the fragrance oil incorporated? I'm definitely going to try that. With my homemade sprays, I couldn't keep everything together without PS20, which I really don't like the feel of.  I wonder if DPG would work? Experiment time! 😁

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2 minutes ago, Sarah S said:

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of the base from The Candlemakers Store, as far as I know the Candle Source doesn't sell room spray (but I'm not 100% sure on that). The last time I checked, the Candlemaker's base has the exact same ingredient list as RE's. So I assume it's the same manufacturer. I believe EBC's base is also the same ingredients, so perhaps they are all the same?

 

@strugglebrother, now you have me thinking! I don't have perfumer's alcohol, but I have been using 190 proof grain alcohol in sprays and it has worked well so far. If I have time this week, I will try various combinations of ingredients to see what happens... The only one I don't have is the bensophenone, so that will be the knockout by default. So it's the glycerine that keeps the fragrance oil incorporated? I'm definitely going to try that. With my homemade sprays, I couldn't keep everything together without PS20, which I really don't like the feel of.  I wonder if DPG would work? Experiment time! 😁

2

 

I suspect The Candlemakers Store base is the same as Rustics looking at their ingredients list.

 

All fragrances are different and react differently to the ingredients you blend them with. The big downside with a readymade blend is that it might work good with some and really bad with some others. If you can dial the ingredients of your base towards the fragrance you might be able to come up with something perfect for just that fragrance etc.

 

Yes, let me know how you get on. I just ran out of DPG which I also wanted to try, please do try it and let me know. Too much DPG can clog fine mist sprayers, so don't use too much. Maybe try 1 to 5% and see if anything good happens?

 

DPG and PG are the same but different

 

Propylene Glycol vs. Dipropylene Glycol Fragrance Oils



Propylene glycol and Dipropylene glycol are derived from the same chemical process, adding water to propylene oxide. However, the molecular structure and chemical composition of each is very different. Though both are used in the cosmetics industry, dipropylene glycol is the preferred fragrance carrier oil for a number of reasons.

 

Chemical Properties
Propylene glycol has a low boiling point and moderate freezing point. It is a diol, or double alcohol, which means that people who are not permitted to use alcohol would not be able to use any fragrance oils with it as a carrier oil. Dipropylene glycol has a high boiling point and low freezing point. It can act as a solvent and stabilizer for many products containing oils. It is non-alcoholic and therefore can be used without restriction for fragrance oil, incense and so on.

 

Skin Sensitivity
Propylene glycol is generally well tolerated by most humans. However, those with eczema have been known to show allergic reactions such as contact dermatitis and hives. Dipropylene glycol has not been shown to cause allergic reactions.

 

Toxicity if Ingested
Propylene glycol has a sweet taste. It is toxic to dogs and cats, and therefore human toiletries and fragrances should never be left within reach of pets. Dipropylene glycol exposure has been shown under lab conditions to result in minor corneal irritation in rabbits and kidney or renal system changes in small rodents.

 

 

There are big debates about if DPG and PG would make a fragrance as a perfume 'last longer'. Some say it could work as a 'fixative' and many others say it doesn't work like that at all. Both are used to dilute or bind/carry fragrance.

 

I use DPG in candles to dilute solutions. For instance, if I need half or a quarter drop of liquid dye.. I mix it with DPG and take one drop of its dilution etc..

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3 hours ago, Sarah S said:

 

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of the base from The Candlemakers Store, as far as I know the Candle Source doesn't sell room spray (but I'm not 100% sure on that). The last time I checked, the Candlemaker's base has the exact same ingredient list as RE's. So I assume it's the same manufacturer. I believe EBC's base is also the same ingredients, so perhaps they are all the same?

 

@strugglebrother, now you have me thinking! I don't have perfumer's alcohol, but I have been using 190 proof grain alcohol in sprays and it has worked well so far. If I have time this week, I will try various combinations of ingredients to see what happens... The only one I don't have is the bensophenone, so that will be the knockout by default. So it's the glycerine that keeps the fragrance oil incorporated? I'm definitely going to try that. With my homemade sprays, I couldn't keep everything together without PS20, which I really don't like the feel of.  I wonder if DPG would work? Experiment time! 😁

Your right it is The Candle Makers 

Store 😊 Have you peeked at the 

ingredient list from essentials by Catalina ? 

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26 minutes ago, Moonstar said:

Your right it is The Candle Makers 

Store 😊 Have you peeked at the 

ingredient list from essentials by Catalina ? 

 

EBC's "body spray base" is sd alcohol, water, butylene glycol, and glycerine. So similar but different. It seems like she is using the butylene glycol as the solvent and/or fixative instead of PG.

Now, she has an entirely different room spray base with a "purefresh" odor neutralizer, which apparently derived from soy. It sounds intriguing. I could swear there is another supplier that carries the same thing....WSP? Making Cosmetics has a great zinc based odor neutralizer that I love, they have a household one and a personal care one, and both really do the job, IMO. 

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On 4/2/2018 at 3:18 PM, Sarah S said:

 

EBC's "body spray base" is sd alcohol, water, butylene glycol, and glycerine. So similar but different. It seems like she is using the butylene glycol as the solvent and/or fixative instead of PG.

 

 

Both of these additives are there to preserve and make sure bacteria stays out of the solution. Seems like Butylene Glycol are a bit less harmful?

 

http://www.healthy-communications.com/butylene.htm

 

I'm ordered quite a few additives and fixates to experiment with :)

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My favorite room spray/body spray/linen spray was the Multi Base Concentrate from Crafter's Choice. I don't know why, but it's unavailable now. I've used the RE and Candlemaker's Store bases but disliked paying the shipping on those gallons. About 2 years ago, I tried the Just Scent base which has been working out well.

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I'm a little late to this party but I'm just starting to make room sprays; it's giving me a headache to read all of the options for the bases and scent options.  I tried a witch hazel, distilled water and candle fragrance oil spray this morning and it smells great; I used the Blue Spruce (as mentioned above by @strugglebrother).  The scent didn't last long but it did its job to eliminate the stale smell in my closet.  If I'm going to sell room sprays along with my candle line is this type of base acceptable?  I looked on Etsy and it appears that this is what most makers are using.  Should I be using one of the purchased bases instead?  Thanks for any guidance you can offer as I'm gearing up for the holiday season now.

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On 4/6/2018 at 11:14 AM, strugglebrother said:

If anyone of you wants 3 gallons of the RE base I gladly give it away for free if you pay for shipping or want to meet for a pickup. I'm located in Los Angeles, CA.

Do you still have the 3 gallons you're trying to part with? If so, please email me at textandemail@gmail.com

I'm in LA, too, and would be willing to meet up. Let me know!

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Room sprays won’t have longevity no matter how you make them. If you disperse them into air for sure. Now you smell them now you don’t. If you spray fabric like a couch they will last longer. Glycerine acts as a fixative. You don’t need much 2 per cent or whatever you spray will get sticky. Essentials uses butyl energy glycol because they use it in all their stuff. It’s used in bath and body formulas but falling out of favor. If you want long lasting make reed diffusers, or electric diffuser similar to using tarts.

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