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Do you just sell just Etsy, or just website, or both?


Paintguru

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So I'm about ready to slowly start scaling up my candle production and am curious how people on her (the smaller folk) predominantly sell their items?  Do you default to Etsy and the massive sea of humanity?  Do you just have your own website?  Do you do both and try to keep up with each?  I am in this more for fun than glamour and riches, but I also don't want to do a half-butt job when I start selling.  I hope to one day be able to do small craft shows, but again, I'm trying to start very slowly.  

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I have a Square website. Its free and that's why I chose it since I already use square to take payments. I think of my website as a place to showcase my soap. It links to my facebook page and vice versa. I do sell off it but don't work at it to bring in more sales. Its mostly there like TT said for my already established customers to view all my soaps and to get more info about them.

 

My bread & butter comes from selling at crafting and farmer's market venues. I work all year round.

Edited by Candybee
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We started on etsy but quickly ended that for our own website. You just get lost in a sea of other people doing the same thing. There is always someone willing to undercut you with pricing that is only sustainable for someone who never plans to sell wholesale and honestly it just hurts the community and pricing in general with lower price point. Do events, lots of events and build up a following that way.

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Thanks.  Yeah I figured events were the way to go to build up a customer base.  I grabbed a Wix ecommerce site for a year when it was on sale, but haven't really built it up yet.  I didn't realize Square had a free one.  

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I did poorly at events because I only sell 1 product.

 

I get 80% business from adwords to myshopify. 20% from etsy. I landed some of my biggest customers from etsy, then I transfer them to my shopify to give them custom orders.

 

I am similar to talltayl with etsy.

 

set up the etsy. Everything you need will be used for etsy too. Photos, product description. 

list on ebay, amazon, post it on facebook sale pages. local online classifieds, visit retail stores.

 

Why go slow? If you get too many orders, that is a great problem!

 

Try a bit of everything

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Etsy didn't work for me, but I think Etsy could work well for some people given a few important factors.

 

Some things I noticed:

 

1. The competition on Etsy is intense, and simply getting seen by customers is hard, especially if you don't have the startup funding to pay for bumped ads. Then even when you do get seen by shoppers, there are already so many heavily established shops with lots of orders and reviews, that enticing customers to give yours a try is a very tricky tightrope walk. For example, if your prices are average, then most customers choose competition that is more established. If your prices are too low, though, then most customers assume the quality of your products must be poor. If your prices are too high, then only the rare customer who is both adventurous and with lots of money to burn, and who equates higher prices with higher quality, will consider giving you a try. Getting off the ground is difficult.

 

2. All of this means that your marketing really needs to be on point, especially for something like a fragrance-oriented item, since people can't smell it through their monitors. It's important to know your target customer demographic and offer them a fantasy as much as a product. This includes everything from the aesthetic quality and theme of your photos (rustic, goth, high fantasy, classy, etc), to the way you describe the scents (story driven, fantasy driven, bold and direct, etc), to whether or not you play up the ingredients used in the products. It was easy for me to eyeball the quality of many items, just because I know how they are made, and even to recognize when a seller was fibbing a bit about something (or was new to their craft and had been tricked by a supplier), such as those claiming a product had "real vanilla essential oil." Or, something like an item with real "sandalwood essential oil" yet a $6.00 price. Similarly, there were "tells" when something was made with merely cheap fragrance oils, yet the seller was using weasel wording to make it sound like something so much more.

 

The ones who were still successful, though, were the ones who understood the importance of fantasy and marketing. Their customers were thrilled all the same, and so long as the less-than-forthright descriptions weren't putting anyone in potential danger from product use, frankly these sellers had accomplished a job well done. These were sellers whose creative talent when far beyond the actual products they were selling. From the marketing to the packaging to the descriptions and any extra touches. For example a customer buying something such as a fantasy fairy potion, not a high quality perfume. Was it literally some fragrance oil and carrier oil, put into a bottle likely ordered from Amazon or AliExpress? Yes. Was the customer loving their fantasy item? Yes. So hey, gotta give credit where its due. These sellers knew how to make their target customers happy.

 

3. Customer psychology plays a huge role in everything. If your shipping would normally need to be $7 for a $10 item, most shoppers won't touch it. On the other hand, change the item price to $20 with FREE SHIPPING, and suddenly you'll get some customers lining up. It doesn't have to make logical sense, just has to appeal to the age of Amazon shopper psychology.

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@NaughtyNancy...I agree. I am not selling on etsy yet, but have been studying it for a few years. Another point is the different kinds of sellers and their goals. Some are only trying to make a little extra money while others are trying to run a full blown business. It is hard to compete with people who are only trying to cover their hobby expenses. 

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4 minutes ago, Sebleo said:

Another point is the different kinds of sellers and their goals. Some are only trying to make a little extra money while others are trying to run a full blown business.

 

Yeah, I also found that branding was a big factor, even for a casual hobby thing. My biggest mistake when I launched my shop, is that I didn't put much effort into the branding psychology aspect. I was just approaching it as a casual crafter looking to sell some things. There is a massive disconnect between the culture that Etsy wants to project, and the reality of the perspective of most of the customers on there. I remember reading guides about the importance of emphasizing yourself as a real person behind the items. This turned out to be mostly false. My traffic increased when I completely removed myself from the whole thing, and only emphasized the products, and did so in a way like a branded chain would do. This isn't inherently bad with some types of items, but it's just important to know how things really are (rather than how Etsy wants to project itself). I also noticed that when I did get one of my ads bumped up to the first page as part of some SEO experiment that Etsy was doing, it actually made my humble little crafts look bad, next to all of this professional looking branded stuff. 

 

Something else I noticed, was that most of the really successful competition went in one of two directions. Either they mass produced simple items at very low prices (making money by small profit per item yet high volume sales), or their retail price was many times that of production costs, selling less but much higher profit per item sold. This correlated strongly with what seemed to be the 2 most common types of customer shopping approaches - either wanting to be able to get lots of little things for fun's sake (listings of the "pick 5 samples" nature were the most popular), or wanting to get something that they perceived as very high quality, exclusive and special. 

 

I'd say my second biggest mistake going into it was assuming that many people shop the way that I do, analyzing quality vs price in a more logical way. Turns out that was a big nope. Most of my favorite shops on there are only moderately successful in terms of number of sales and estimated profits, but I took chances on them because I could see signs that their products were nice quality, and the prices were reasonable for the quality level. I approached my own shop this way, in a "decent stuff for decent prices" manner, and actual views (they clicked on the listing) were scarce. 

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14 minutes ago, NaughtyNancy said:

successful competition

Look at craftcount.com. Even the "successful" top 1% can't make a living 100% off etsy. It's a sales channel while they have a main website.

 

Calculate their revenue with Number of sales x average item price. minus transaction fees,  listing fees. cost of goods. Divided by number of years open.

 

The top 3 stores in bath and body make $100k per year. Top 20 stores make 40k per year.

 

Given the level of competition, and time to be literally at the top on etsy. These numbers aren't good

Edited by bathaway
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4 minutes ago, bathaway said:

Even the "successful" top 1% can't make a living 100% off etsy.

 

True, but that's also not the goal of most sellers on Etsy, either. Supplemental income goals are much more common. Someone making X thousands per year of a shop was very successful in my eyes, anyway. 

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17 minutes ago, NaughtyNancy said:

Either they mass produced simple items at very low prices

They dropship, or wholesale it from a "production partner" china factory. Etsy is losing money so they allow this stuff to stay afloat.

 

etsy is so competitive that only the extremes do well.
extremely cheap. cheaper than buying local. (factory made)

 

extremely branded. as you said, fantasy oriented and wayyy overpriced. 

 

extreme niche or occasion. Stores based 100% on confetti, party favor bath bombs

 

 

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5 minutes ago, bathaway said:

They dropship, or wholesale it from a "production partner" china factory.

 

That does happen with many types of items, such as jewelry, which is a severely polluted market when it comes to resellers.

 

With the body product type stuff, though, I meant more along the lines of say, someone making roll-on perfumes, for example. They buy cheap roller bottles in bulk, add an affordable carrier oil and a smidgen of cheap fragrance oil. Overall it costs them very little money to produce the item, and they can produce many such items very quickly and easily. Let's say hypothetically it costs them $1.25 to make one item (purely hypothetical here), yet they charge $3.00 for it. That's not much profit (aside from raw percentage) per item, but those items sell like hotcakes, and it adds up.

 

However, the successful sellers who go for this approach, tend to have really nice marketing and fantasy appeal, and they also target customers who love to order lots of little an inexpensive items to sample. 

 

It's a viable strategy for someone looking to make a little supplemental income, and then also the "exclusive, special" feel for the other common type of customer. 

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I do bath bombs. taking your example. 

 

$3 - $1.25 - $0.30 (listing fee) - 3% (transaction fee) - $0.20 (wholesale) - packing time - errors - customer service - printing shipping labels.

 

They make very very little or none on that. I am guessing it gives them impressive sales numbers, 5 star reviews, and a chance people buy more items per order.

 

I think what is more likely is buying 100 000 roll on parfum from china at $0.30 each. Seller knows how to import. They have a retail store, or other distribution channels, they wholesale to other stores. They list on etsy for some easy income.

 

The most highest volume stores are beads. They sell for $1 - $3. The beads cost $0.001-$0.03 from china.

 

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48 minutes ago, NaughtyNancy said:

 

True, but that's also not the goal of most sellers on Etsy, either. Supplemental income goals are much more common. Someone making X thousands per year of a shop was very successful in my eyes, anyway. 

 

 

I have to agree with here on this. I think the majority, like myself soon I hope, are selling on ETSY to supplement an already existing income. Would I like to make enough to support myslef 100% from ETSY like Frostbeard does? Heck ya. Will it ever happen? Not likely in the slightest.  Im just looking to help put my daughter through college (single parent with one income her entire life. She knows all about just scraping by like we have done since she was born)

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We know how hard it is on etsy to even get a sale. 

 

before even trying etsy, i think other channels have to explored because the ROI on selling on etsy is bad.

 

95% of stores don't get a return on etsy.

 

Most common case study:

- see etsy ad - a person making careers off etsy (#1 seller of a category) They say something generic like "My key to success was getting quality ingredients"

-the dream is created

-buy supplies

-take lousy photos

-annnnnd 0 views.

-close store after 6 months.


The ROI on etsy is good when other channels are set up. Then simply list on etsy for some extra sales.

 

 

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Etsy is a million times easier than managing a fresh solo website and hoping to be found using underdeveloped SEO.

 

Etsy is also very good for cultivating new wholesale too, don’t forget. 

 

Regardlessof the platform, marketing to YOUR customer is required for business success. 

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I think this is a great discussion, and really does focus in on how much marketing plays a role, and perhaps how hard it is for some people to market well.  I'm probably in this camp, as I'm a scientist/engineer by training, which is the opposite side of the brain from the outgoing, creative, marketing side!  Etsy is probably low risk, especially for someone starting out, but obviously can't be one's only source early on.    

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18 hours ago, bathaway said:

etsy is so competitive that only the extremes do well.
extremely cheap. cheaper than buying local. (factory made)

I don't agree with this. We have a member of this forum, that does VERY well off of etsy, and she is not extremely cheap, nor is she factory made, it's all handmade by her, in her home with her daughter. I also believe she makes a living off of her handmade items.  

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I have my own website, plus I sell on Etsy and Amazon Handmade.  In addition, I do local markets and shows 9 months of the year.  My business revenue is about 2/3 online, 1/3 local /direct.  I don't wholesale - retail only.  I don't like putting all my eggs in one basket - you never know what's going to fly until you try it.  :)  This candle gig is my day job. I also sell some wax melts, soap, and lip balms, but the bulk of our sales, by far, is candles.  

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Crafty1_AJ said:

I have my own website, plus I sell on Etsy and Amazon Handmade.  In addition, I do local markets and shows 9 months of the year.  My business revenue is about 2/3 online, 1/3 local /direct.  I don't wholesale - retail only.  I don't like putting all my eggs in one basket - you never know what's going to fly until you try it.  :)  This candle gig is my day job. I also sell some wax melts, soap, and lip balms, but the bulk of our sales, by far, is candles.  

 

 

I was hoping you'd chime in. You are the member I was speaking of. Hope I didn't misspeak. 

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1 hour ago, Crafty1_AJ said:

I have my own website, plus I sell on Etsy and Amazon Handmade.  In addition, I do local markets and shows 9 months of the year.  My business revenue is about 2/3 online, 1/3 local /direct.  I don't wholesale - retail only.  I don't like putting all my eggs in one basket - you never know what's going to fly until you try it.  :)  This candle gig is my day job. I also sell some wax melts, soap, and lip balms, but the bulk of our sales, by far, is candles.  

 

 

 

Can you please explain to us how Amazon Handmade works? Like, why would I sell there versus Amazon flagship.  From what I understand AH is a seperate site from Amazon flagaship and does not share the same customer base. Ive always wondered about this site and how people like us would do on Amazon Handmade.

 

That is if you dont mind and have the time AJ. Cheers :)

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1 hour ago, Jcandleattic said:

I was hoping you'd chime in. You are the member I was speaking of. Hope I didn't misspeak. 

 

I think we all admire how well her business does. Others here not on ETSY but do just as well I admire the heck out of too. I know TT and others as well do this for a living, which is a dream for me that seems rediculous at this stage lol

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