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Frustrated with soy...


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Hi everyone! I'm new here. I've been using 464 for a few months now, my HT is sometimes great, sometimes poor...same with my tops. Sometimes they are smooth, sometimes they look like I took a brillo pad to them. I wanted to try a different wax to see what happened, and I had heard a lot of people loved CB Advanced when it was out before, and that the only problem was hot throw. Well, I made a batch, and the appearance was absolutely perfect. I heated to 165F, added 9% FO, poured at 140F, and they are gorgeous. Perfectly smooth creamy tops and sides. No work needed. Love it! But.....the HT is almost non-existent. I let them cure about 3 days. I have not seen anything anywhere about them needing to cure for extended periods of time to improve HT. Does anyone have any advice? I have had some people say go up to 12% fragrance, but that just seems crazy...and expensive. 

Also, since I'm apparently a glutton for punishment, I went to Walmart and bought a candle to compare. It filled my whole house in less than an hour. I put one of my 464 wax tarts in my melter and it struggled to fill my living room before dying out a couple hours later. So disappointing and frustrating. I am so frustrated I am even at the point of considering switching to paraffin or a parasoy blend, but I am afraid that could hurt me when I start selling, since the market is all about soy. 

 

I know a lot of people struggle with all the same things with soy. I am just at my wit's end and could really use some expert opinions. Thanks in advance. 

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There are loads of threads about how horrid soy has been for more than a year. I’ll try to compile the highlights, but in the meantime, use the little search box at the top for terms like:

soy problem

464

wicking soy

464 wick

 

Candlescience finally admitted that golden had production issues with water in the soy machinery last fall in this thread:

 

along with the many soy complaints, the fragrance industry suffered a loss back in October that is causing a lot of trouble:

 

While  the problems have been solved, I can attest that they have not. Every single lot of soy wax I buy - even from the same supplier - performs very differently. 

 

Wick issues are also noteworthy. Not only do some fragrances change the size and type of wicks needed, The same name and size of wick from different suppliers may perform differently. Search terms like:

wick supplier

Difference in wicks

 

 

soy candles are not for the quick buck makers. They take time, patience and resources to master. Soy candles continue to change for weeks, sometimes months after being made. If you’re patient, and take really good notes, you’ll be able to make some really nice candles. 

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2 hours ago, LittleMissSunshine said:

Hi everyone! I'm new here. I've been using 464 for a few months now, my HT is sometimes great, sometimes poor...same with my tops. Sometimes they are smooth, sometimes they look like I took a brillo pad to them. I wanted to try a different wax to see what happened, and I had heard a lot of people loved CB Advanced when it was out before, and that the only problem was hot throw. Well, I made a batch, and the appearance was absolutely perfect. I heated to 165F, added 9% FO, poured at 140F, and they are gorgeous. Perfectly smooth creamy tops and sides. No work needed. Love it! But.....the HT is almost non-existent. I let them cure about 3 days. I have not seen anything anywhere about them needing to cure for extended periods of time to improve HT. Does anyone have any advice? I have had some people say go up to 12% fragrance, but that just seems crazy...and expensive. 

Also, since I'm apparently a glutton for punishment, I went to Walmart and bought a candle to compare. It filled my whole house in less than an hour. I put one of my 464 wax tarts in my melter and it struggled to fill my living room before dying out a couple hours later. So disappointing and frustrating. I am so frustrated I am even at the point of considering switching to paraffin or a parasoy blend, but I am afraid that could hurt me when I start selling, since the market is all about soy. 

 

I know a lot of people struggle with all the same things with soy. I am just at my wit's end and could really use some expert opinions. Thanks in advance. 

 

Hi LittleMissSunshine! I love your user name!

I don't have any advice in regards to soy candles, and TT has covered what most of us on the board would tell you anyway.

I just wanted to comment on your statement that I put in bold above - I think that is a big misconception, and that will hurt you if/when you start selling. There are many talented chandlers who work with soy. Many of them are on this board. They make wonderful candles. There are many talented chandlers that work with paraffin. Also on this board, also making wonderful candles. The candle market is all about well made products with a story that the consumer values. If the story is the all-natural angle, great. Maybe the story is about beautiful labels that create a conversation piece. Maybe the story is blow-the-doors off fragrance. If the consumer assigns value to the product's story, they will buy the product.

If you are planning on selling, the best thing you can do is make a fantastic product that you are passionate about, proud of, and has value to you. Find your story and build your product from there.

Sorry to get kind of rant-y, please don't think I'm maligning soy! I have a lot of respect for soy chandlers, it is a finicky wax that takes patience and perserverence to master. Please do read through the threads @TallTayl posted above, and make use of the board's search function. The knowledge here is the best, and even if you decide on a different wax, you will have the information to make the best decision for making your unique creations!

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Thank you @Sarah S! (My name is actually Sara too haha. :) ) I really needed to hear that. I live in a small town that has a lot of interest in being all-natural, and sometimes I feel like I need to impress them? Or cater to their interests? I guess? Although, I'll be honest, I think most of my clientele will be out-of-town once I start selling. And I think you're so right....the quality of the product and my personal value in it should be more than what I think certain people want. I have been so frustrated lately....frustrated with my candles not throwing enough, frustrated with my bath bombs crumbling, and I have been a bit down on myself because of it. And thank you @TallTayl for taking the time to send me all of those resources! I'm really glad I found this forum. :)  

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Hi LittleMissSunshine! (love the name also!)

I can attest to what Tall Tayle and Sara both said to the T!

I feel your pain as do all the ones who come here.  We are all in the same boat especially with what has happened to soy wax lately.

The only thing that I can contribute to this conversation is to have patience and perserviereence here.   (I know that I spelled that wrong...)  This craft isn't something that you master overnight, couple days, week, or months.  Took me a good close to a 1 1/2 years where I felt confident enough that I had created a product worthy to put out in the market.   There are many others who will tell you the same thing too.  Don't beat yourself up because you don't have smooth tops.  That you will conquer in time as that is a pouring agenda you will learn to master as you gain experience and something that can be fixed much more so than making a candle that doesn't have a throw.  Concentrate on learning how your soy works and performs and learn which wicks you like.  There are tons and tons of subjects here on this forum that covers every question you have and ones you haven't even thought of.    Of course you will spend $$$$$ and lots too in finding oils that are compatable with the wax you choose to work with.  I know your just starting out, but you will get there.  Importantly I noticed you said in your post you cured for 3 days....Soy needs to cure.  Everyone knows what cure time works best for them.  I use 464 and 2 weeks cure time is what is given to them.  You WILL see the difference.  So patience as hard as it is to wait for the candles to cure is what you need here.  Like Tall Tayle said, comb the forum here and read to you hearts content!  Read about even all other soys.  We can get lost in so many discussions here on the board and there are so many posts where we sort of drift off and discuss something that maybe someone put up in the same conversation that you can still learn about.  But it's all about the knowledge and what we feed off of one another and boy is there lots and never ending!  Sara, what a great post you made!  And so true and put in words that are so true.  Well, that's my input!

Enjoy your new found art Sarah!

 

So your from Maine?  Where?  Well if all things get in order for me here in Georgia I'll be making my move back home to Maine this year....fingers crossed!  I'm going to Sanford where my sisters are.

 

Trappeur:)

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On 2/19/2018 at 5:48 PM, Trappeur said:

Hi LittleMissSunshine! (love the name also!)

I can attest to what Tall Tayle and Sara both said to the T!

I feel your pain as do all the ones who come here.  We are all in the same boat especially with what has happened to soy wax lately.

The only thing that I can contribute to this conversation is to have patience and perserviereence here.   (I know that I spelled that wrong...)  This craft isn't something that you master overnight, couple days, week, or months.  Took me a good close to a 1 1/2 years where I felt confident enough that I had created a product worthy to put out in the market.   There are many others who will tell you the same thing too.  Don't beat yourself up because you don't have smooth tops.  That you will conquer in time as that is a pouring agenda you will learn to master as you gain experience and something that can be fixed much more so than making a candle that doesn't have a throw.  Concentrate on learning how your soy works and performs and learn which wicks you like.  There are tons and tons of subjects here on this forum that covers every question you have and ones you haven't even thought of.    Of course you will spend $$$$$ and lots too in finding oils that are compatable with the wax you choose to work with.  I know your just starting out, but you will get there.  Importantly I noticed you said in your post you cured for 3 days....Soy needs to cure.  Everyone knows what cure time works best for them.  I use 464 and 2 weeks cure time is what is given to them.  You WILL see the difference.  So patience as hard as it is to wait for the candles to cure is what you need here.  Like Tall Tayle said, comb the forum here and read to you hearts content!  Read about even all other soys.  We can get lost in so many discussions here on the board and there are so many posts where we sort of drift off and discuss something that maybe someone put up in the same conversation that you can still learn about.  But it's all about the knowledge and what we feed off of one another and boy is there lots and never ending!  Sara, what a great post you made!  And so true and put in words that are so true.  Well, that's my input!

Enjoy your new found art Sarah!

 

So your from Maine?  Where?  Well if all things get in order for me here in Georgia I'll be making my move back home to Maine this year....fingers crossed!  I'm going to Sanford where my sisters are.

 

Trappeur:)

Not too far from me in MA. My daughter is at U Maine Orono so I do the drive up several times a year.

Karen in MA

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/19/2018 at 5:48 PM, Trappeur said:

 

So your from Maine?  Where?  Well if all things get in order for me here in Georgia I'll be making my move back home to Maine this year....fingers crossed!  I'm going to Sanford where my sisters are.

 

Trappeur:)

 

If and when you do make the trip back home to us here in Maine Trap...You, LittleMissSunshine and I will have to meet up for some coffee and have a nice chat about how much we LOVE soy ;D 

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Hey Clear Black!

 

Funny you posted this as I just noticed yesterday a post you did saying you were from Maine and I was going to tell you the same thing!.....Yep, we will definitely get together!  Sounds like a plan....I miss my lobster!

You got it!:thumbsup:

Where in Maine are you?  I'm going back to Sanford or Parsonsfield....

 

Trappeur

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14 hours ago, Trappeur said:

Hey Clear Black!

 

Funny you posted this as I just noticed yesterday a post you did saying you were from Maine and I was going to tell you the same thing!.....Yep, we will definitely get together!  Sounds like a plan....I miss my lobster!

You got it!:thumbsup:

Where in Maine are you?  I'm going back to Sanford or Parsonsfield....

 

Trappeur

 

Just outside of Portland in Westbrook. So about 40min drive to Sanford, not even on a good day. :) 

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Oh cool!  Well, I'm going up for a trip I think its either going to be May or June, when ever my sister goes up from Texax as she bought a 2'nd home for vacations in Parsonsfield.  I'll let you know and we can still meet b/4 I get moved up there.  I'm right now looking for property with some acreage and will be on that mission in May/June.  How exciting!

 

Trappeur

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I used the CB Advanced or CBA. I ended up not liking it and moved on. The CBA was designed to eliminate frosting and wet spots but at the expense of hot throw. It was also designed to hold up to 12% fragrance but that is only how much it will hold. IMO its never a good idea to go up to 12%. For soy I used anywhere from 6 to 8% FO load. 

 

CBA does look beautiful and makes a handsome candle. But finding FOs that throw well in it is a real challenge. I found strong bakery types worked well in it. But I got tired of spending so much money trying this FO and that FO that I finally gave up.

 

As far as curing soy including CBA 3 days is far too short a cure time. That's barely time for the wax to fully harden and crystalize let along cure. You need to wait a minimum of 2-3 weeks for it to cure. Some scents can take up to a month or slightly longer. You have to have patience with soy, especially CBA, to find FOs that not only throw but finding out how long you need to cure each scent.

 

CBA was off the market while Ecosoya was formulating their new quantum waxes. After the quantum waxes were released the CBA was brought back.

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19 hours ago, Trappeur said:

Oh cool!  Well, I'm going up for a trip I think its either going to be May or June, when ever my sister goes up from Texax as she bought a 2'nd home for vacations in Parsonsfield.  I'll let you know and we can still meet b/4 I get moved up there.  I'm right now looking for property with some acreage and will be on that mission in May/June.  How exciting!

 

Trappeur

 

Very exciting! I cannot imagine living anywhere else but Maine. No offense to you non-Mainers out there of course :P 

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