Got craters? Slow your cool

[TallTayl]

Craters. Sinkholes. Cavities. Whatever you call them, they form in all kinds of waxes.

 

Often, just pouring "cloudy" or "slushy" helps minimize them. 

Sometimes heating your containers helps. 

 

During a recent test pour of several different vessels of varying sizes and materials, something hit me upside the head like a V8: those big, thick,really warm ceramic vessels always cool perfectly! The tins and smaller vessels left cold developed major cavities even when the wax poured practically setting up.

 

As I poked the craters to excavate the issues, I noticed all were pretty low in the container. This told me the cold bench surface of my igloo shop solidified the wax too quickly. 

 

So today, I put than observation to a non-scientific test. I set half of the waiting containers to warm up on my wax melter which was set at 100 just to keep it at the ready for another project. 

 

Then I forced myself to pour the waxes while still very clear. I didn't wait for the waxes too cool more than a few minutes while stirring before pouring. I poured those beasts hot.  Each pre-warmed container was covered with a paper towel to keep drafts out, then left alone. After less than an hour they were solid. Not a crater sign anywhere on them yet. For science I will poke at them tomorrow when they are good and cold, but methinks we have a solution to a big problem here. Slooooooow the cool. 

 

The unwarmed containers left on the cold bench to cool developed craters. Even coconut wax beads that are supposedly foolproof! 

[olives]

Craters, sinkholes, and cavities are my biggest nemesis by far! I've drastically lowered my pouring temp, which causes extra work to smooth out the tops after they set, but seems to have helped...

 

I'd prefer to pour hot (no wait time!) so I'll try doing that into warmed containers, which I don't normally do...not totally feasible in my setup...but curious to see how it works!

[TallTayl]

 

 

20 minutes ago, olives said:

Craters, sinkholes, and cavities are my biggest nemesis by far! I've drastically lowered my pouring temp, which causes extra work to smooth out the tops after they set, but seems to have helped...

 

I'd prefer to pour hot (no wait time!) so I'll try doing that into warmed containers, which I don't normally do...not totally feasible in my setup...but curious to see how it works!

Something as simple as Christmas lights under a raised board might really help, or a pillowcase filled with rice or corn microwaved like a heating pad. I am going to play with options going forward. I'm looking at how gardeners keep large trays of seedlings in a good temp zone. I need about a 30" x 6-10 foot span warmed. Come summer months this should be less of a problem. 

 

one thing to watch for.... don't pour so hot that your wick coating melts, or the wick tab comes loose. Those were the two worst problems I found so far. 

[gls]

I too work in a cold basement.  The environment is not that great for pouring candles but it does wonders in controlling my hot flashes.    

 

I also grow seeds in my basement using warming pads and grow lights.  I tried to use the warming pads for the candle operation and it was a fuster cluck.   I looked into building a warming bench with heating cable and/or heat lamps on pulley system, but they all had complications.  Currently I have been playing with pour boxes made from metal faced insulation board and they are working great.  I can heat the jars prior on the griddle or carefully use heat gun while they are in the boxes.   

[Forrest]

15 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Craters. Sinkholes. Cavities. Whatever you call them, they form in all kinds of waxes.

 

Often, just pouring "cloudy" or "slushy" helps minimize them. 

Sometimes heating your containers helps. 

 

This is very timely advice as yesterday I got my first crater when I poured my first test candle on a larger container. I was thinking that maybe I should lower my pour temperature or warm the container, but as my room was in the low sixties I should probably do both. Thanks for the advice, it not only verified what I was thinking, it made me feel good, because maybe I'm beginning to understand a few things.

[TallTayl]

1 hour ago, gls said:

I too work in a cold basement.  The environment is not that great for pouring candles but it does wonders in controlling my hot flashes.    

 

I also grow seeds in my basement using warming pads and grow lights.  I tried to use the warming pads for the candle operation and it was a fuster cluck.   I looked into building a warming bench with heating cable and/or heat lamps on pulley system, but they all had complications.  Currently I have been playing with pour boxes made from metal faced insulation board and they are working great.  I can heat the jars prior on the griddle or carefully use heat gun while they are in the boxes.   

I'm considering pouring a concrete slab around the floor heating grids made for under tile. It has worked well under slate in the main bathroom.... But what a pain. There has t be an easier way.

[Flicker]

Tall, I used to recommend folks that had that problem use a piece of newspaper, or two, tented over the tops for this reason. Slowing the cool prevents the candle from cooling around the perimeter before cooling in the middle. That is what causes craters and dips. Often pouring a bit hotter also helps. Tins, and containers that are taller than wide are most susceptible to this horrible phenomenon. I use 6006 and mason jars, I got it all the time.

[gls]

50 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

I'm considering pouring a concrete slab around the floor heating grids made for under tile. It has worked well under slate in the main bathroom.... But what a pain. There has t be an easier way.

 

That is why i decided to try the insulation boxes first.    I wanted something I could make with CHEAP material!  Also, I wanted a way to control the production setup.   I didn't want to continue disturbing the previous poured jars while pouring more and removing top cover.   The problem I found with a heating element type was being able to create different heat zones and the number of thermostats was getting costly.    I even started designing a water bath heating tank to address the problem but I wanted several small ones instead of one giant one and the costs were not justified.   The insulation box prototype I've made keeps the heat in so well I don't need an additional heat source and this eliminated lot of problems and cost.  

 

Like Flicker mentioned, I have had more success with maintaining higher temps on entire jar perimeter and not just the bottoms.  

 

 

[TallTayl]

Tenting helps a little, but the main problem I have is on the table top itself. It sucks all the heat right out of the containers. My caverns develop within 1/4" of the bottom and they get huge. 

 

Almost need an an electric blanket to heat that whole zone for a tent to work, and keep drafts off. 

[Paintguru]

What about the electric skillet that everyone seems to suggest to heat their pour pots?  Pop your jars/tins on there, set it to warm (or even pre-heat and shut off).  Should heat the surrounding air a bit too.

[TallTayl]

That would work for small batches sure. Towel or piece of foam board insulation on the table then a box over top works ok too. 

 

 

[Paintguru]

Good point on batch size.  I have yet to upscale.  

[TallTayl]

Tried out two things today, and surprisingly each worked pretty well.

 

first, after tripping over a stack of stone tiles, the idea of a quick and dirty heat sink seemed good. I soaked them in a sink of hot hot water til they seemed really warm to hold.

 

 

 

then placed one on a towel on the bench. I should have stacked a few to really hold some heat.

 

 

 

Poured 6 candles on the tile and covered with a clear tub, the rest of the tiles, and towels.

 

 

That held heat for several hours and resulted in some beautiful candles.i could have fit 9 or so candles on that tile. With enough candles and tiles that would hold a lot of heat.

 

 

 

 

[TallTayl]

The second idea that worked surprisingly well was a hot water bath.

 

I poured a beeswax blend in a ceramic jar. Then I sunk the jar part way in a pail of hot water. Covered the pail and walked away. That cooled really slowly and steadily with no drafts. A big, wide rubbermade or sterilite type of container would work well as a water heat sink for a larger number of candles 

 

[GoldieMN]

On 2/6/2018 at 10:41 AM, TallTayl said:

 

 

Something as simple as Christmas lights under a raised board might really help, or a pillowcase filled with rice or corn microwaved like a heating pad. I am going to play with options going forward. I'm looking at how gardeners keep large trays of seedlings in a good temp zone. I need about a 30" x 6-10 foot span warmed. Come summer months this should be less of a problem. 

 

one thing to watch for.... don't pour so hot that your wick coating melts, or the wick tab comes loose. Those were the two worst problems I found so far. 

Hmmm. . .heated mattress pads are pretty thin so jars placed on them shouldn't tip.  I wonder if that's an option.

GoldieMN

[TallTayl]

7 hours ago, GoldieMN said:

Hmmm. . .heated mattress pads are pretty thin so jars placed on them shouldn't tip.  I wonder if that's an option.

GoldieMN

It might. Anything to keep the heat energy in the cooling the candle from being sucked out the bottom too quickly might do the trick. I’ve used floor tiles heated in a sink filled with hot hot hot water. Worked well for small batches to test the theory. 

 

Seed starting mats if ou have them would work. The rolls of floor heating for bathrooms have thermostats, so they may be an option. Check Pinterest for seed starting.  Loads of info there that would translate well. 

[MilosCandles]

I think I am going to try..  I have 2 heat lamps that I might place over the cooling table I have.  I am wondering of the heat lamps will slow the cooling process enough (or too much)

[TallTayl]

5 hours ago, MilosCandles said:

I think I am going to try..  I have 2 heat lamps that I might place over the cooling table I have.  I am wondering of the heat lamps will slow the cooling process enough (or too much)

I have not tried heating from above. Please do share what you find. 

 

Ive tested cooling tins on top of my wax melter with super success, so heat from one direction at least helps keep it under control.  Pouring much cooler has saved me hours of heat gunning top fixes and digging for cavities.

[MilosCandles]

250 Watt Heat Lamp about 4 feet above the table..   Does not seem to be making much of a difference as I watch them.  LOL

 

I should probably get some sort of thermometers to see if there is that much of a heat difference between under the light and not.  

 

 

[gls]

Somewhere on here - someone said: they used heat lamps on a pulley system and raised the lamps in time increments. I thought that sounded like a good idea but I haven’t had a chance to try it. I’ve looked into restaurant type warming lamps but so far haven’t wanted to spend the money.

 

On a different test I made on insulated box so well that it took a small Candle a day to cool. They were by far the worst ones I’ve ever done😩!  So toooo much heat can be a disaster.

 

 

 

 

 

[TallTayl]

Seems like a lot of trouble. Big manufacturers don’t do these contortions. Every behind the scenes vid I’ve watched just pour cooler. 

[GoldieMN]

On 2/5/2018 at 8:40 PM, TallTayl said:

Craters. Sinkholes. Cavities. Whatever you call them, they form in all kinds of waxes.

Then I forced myself to pour the waxes while still very clear. I didn't wait for the waxes too cool more than a few minutes while stirring before pouring. I poured those beasts hot.  Each pre-warmed container was covered with a paper towel to keep drafts out, then left alone. After less than an hour they were solid. Not a crater sign anywhere on them yet. For science I will poke at them tomorrow when they are good and cold, but methinks we have a solution to a big problem here. Slooooooow the cool. 

@TallTayl So you poured "hotter"?  Any idea at all as to the temp?  I poured my first C-1 and C-3 testers (no fragrances), yesterday at 110 degrees; wax was still clear, no clouding.  Placed on my new seed warmer, jars warmed in the oven, small heater heating jars about two feet away.  Found cavities in the bottom of half of them.  For all I know, there could be more so poked holes in all and heat gunned them.  Next time, I will do this in a warmer room to see if that helps.  But wondering if 110 is too cool to pour.

One other thing, I noticed absolutely no wet spots on the C-3 jars but huge ones on the C-1 jars.  Not that that means anything.  Just sayin'. . .

GoldieMN

[Pam W]

Really late to this thread but what about adding a room heater to the area:  https://www.amazon.com/Lasko-754200-Ceramic-Adjustable-Thermostat/dp/B000TKDQ5C/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1545275751&sr=8-6&keywords=room+heaters

Something like this....would warm up the surrounding area and maybe help slow down the cooling process???????

[obsessed]

On 2/6/2018 at 1:40 PM, TallTayl said:

Craters. Sinkholes. Cavities. Whatever you call them, they form in all kinds of waxes.

 

Often, just pouring "cloudy" or "slushy" helps minimize them. 

Sometimes heating your containers helps. 

 

During a recent test pour of several different vessels of varying sizes and materials, something hit me upside the head like a V8: those big, thick,really warm ceramic vessels always cool perfectly! The tins and smaller vessels left cold developed major cavities even when the wax poured practically setting up.

 

As I poked the craters to excavate the issues, I noticed all were pretty low in the container. This told me the cold bench surface of my igloo shop solidified the wax too quickly. 

 

So today, I put than observation to a non-scientific test. I set half of the waiting containers to warm up on my wax melter which was set at 100 just to keep it at the ready for another project. 

 

Then I forced myself to pour the waxes while still very clear. I didn't wait for the waxes too cool more than a few minutes while stirring before pouring. I poured those beasts hot.  Each pre-warmed container was covered with a paper towel to keep drafts out, then left alone. After less than an hour they were solid. Not a crater sign anywhere on them yet. For science I will poke at them tomorrow when they are good and cold, but methinks we have a solution to a big problem here. Slooooooow the cool. 

 

The unwarmed containers left on the cold bench to cool developed craters. Even coconut wax beads that are supposedly foolproof! 

Also .... extremely late to this thread , but it intrigues me. I find pouring 464 hot works well for me , contrary to manufacturer recommendations ( I usually heat to 90c/add fragrance / stir then pour.) As long as room temp is around 20-22c all good. If it's really hot or humid, which is now where I live , the tops can be lumpy. I find your comments make sense with candle sinkholes ect . When I attempted a marble jar , the marble was sooo cold , the set was awful. Also when I made in my kitchen I sat them on Caesarstone tops ... ice cold, I had problems in winter. My question is , how does "rapid cool" compare to slow cool? I have read a bit on rapid cooling and know also in large manufacturing this is done ( in some factories). Rapid cool is supposed to prevent fragrance burn off , does slow cool then lose fragrance in comparison? 

[CaptnKush]

I have one of these insulated food carriers that I use, and you can get a hot plate for them that heats them up and keeps them warm for atleast 4hrs. Anyone tried this for slowly cooling your candles? https://www.webstaurantstore.com/cambro-upcs400401-ultra-pan-carrier-s-series-slate-blue-front-loading-insulated-food-pan-carrier/214UPCS400SB.html