wcgxxx Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Hi all, I’m fairly new to making candles. I bought 150 lbs of GW 444 and have used them all. Friends and family are happy with them. However, I am switching to C3 since Ive seen that it’s more of a true one pour . I was getting a lot of sink holes in the 444 unless I poured at lower than 107, I was initially pouring at 135 and worked my way down. Ive read up on the C3 wax and am concluding to heat to 185, add my FO (haven’t decided my % since I’m seeing anywhere between 6-8.5%) and pour at 125. I got the Premier 775 wicks since my container are 4” in diameter. Does anyone have any suggestions for me with this wax? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I used C3 for about 7-8 years. I cannot stand several things about it: 1) the tiny champagne bubbles. If you stir (who doesn't) and it cools as you do so, tiny bubbles will appear throughout the candle. They make foam around the candle as it burns, and if you heat gun tops at all all those tiny bubbles toward the surface are a bugger to smooth out. I use a wide rubber spatula to gently move the FO and not introduce bubbles. The lecithin emulsifier in the wax just makes bubbles. 2) it is finicky to heat. I have a jacketed melter. If I get the wax to temp of 185 and begin to pour it smells like old fryolator oil, which carries through to the finished candles. I noticed this even in presto pots. You can't leave it warm for any length of time. 3) it can crater like a demon. It's as bad as 444. I have to pour very cool or it will appear beautiful on the top, and holey underneath all throughout the candle) 4) throw is not as good for me as 444. Well my November lot of 444 anyway. 5) it frosts just as bad as others. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandlekrazy Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I've used C3 for 20+ years now, I don't think you're going to solve any problems with C3 that you aren't already having. I haven't experienced the foamy tops while burning that some have and I'm not sure why that is. I use it because I can get it locally and save tons on shipping. I think the only way you'll get a true one pour wax is to use a blend, this is why so many have either switched to a blend or blend their own. Soy is a beast but I love it so I put up with all the craziness of it, especially lately with all the changes in soy. On the C3 I heat it to 200, turn my melter down to 175 and by the time I start pouring it's between 180-185 where I add the wax to my fragrance pots. I don't pour until it looks fairly cloudy, I don't use a temp for pouring anymore but if I had to guess it's somewhere between 110-120. Always poke relief holes and depending on what I find I either heat gun or 2nd pour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcgxxx Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 @kandlekrazy what fragrance load do you use ? I’ve seen conflicting amounts, also I know it depends on FO but do you have a general fragrance load Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandlekrazy Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 7 hours ago, wcgxxx said: @kandlekrazy what fragrance load do you use ? I’ve seen conflicting amounts, also I know it depends on FO but do you have a general fragrance load 6% 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcgxxx Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 I made my first and second batches using the C3 wax and I am sooo happy that I do not have any more sink holes! I poured my first batch at 107 and got no sink holes, some frosting but not bad, and no wet spots. My second batch I poured at 114 and 116 and 114 had no sink holes, no frosting, no wet spots. 116 had minimal frosting and one candle had mini champagne bubbles. I will be pouring at 114. I used a 6% fragrance load with my first batch and cold throw is pretty absent (lavender mint fo) my second batch has a much stronger cold throw but it is also a stronger scent. I still used 6% fragrance load. going to wait 2 wks before I test burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Sounds great and you are getting your system going! Trappeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 8 hours ago, wcgxxx said: I made my first and second batches using the C3 wax and I am sooo happy that I do not have any more sink holes! I poured my first batch at 107 and got no sink holes, some frosting but not bad, and no wet spots. My second batch I poured at 114 and 116 and 114 had no sink holes, no frosting, no wet spots. 116 had minimal frosting and one candle had mini champagne bubbles. I will be pouring at 114. I used a 6% fragrance load with my first batch and cold throw is pretty absent (lavender mint fo) my second batch has a much stronger cold throw but it is also a stronger scent. I still used 6% fragrance load. going to wait 2 wks before I test burn. Do poke around in those candles. I just made a dozen sets of C3 and 444 to compare (again). In both waxes, If the wax cools too fast *in the candle container* I find caverns from the middle level to close to the bottom of the candle. I poured all at thick slush. The only ones that did not have any hidden cavities were those I poured into very warm containers that cooled slowly and evenly. Those containers that cooled fast had them close to the bottom, and they were huge, even with the very cool wax pour temp. The solution (in my case) is to cool on a warmed table so that poured does not set up too fast around the bottom and sides of the containers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I hope this doesn't sound like a stupid question, but when you refer to poking around in the candle....do you do that right after you pour before the candle starts to set up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Poke as it sets up. You’ll notice aircavities as it cools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shicks Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) I melted c3 to 185 put in pour pot added fragrance and stirred 2 minutes and poured right away it was usually 160 ish and I got smooth beautiful tops slight wet spots occasionally these are the instructions that came with c3 I did not get a nicer candle pouring at lower temps Edited February 9, 2018 by shicks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcgxxx Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 I will pour at 160 with my next batch and see if it works for me. 4 hours ago, shicks said: I melted c3 to 185 put in pour pot added fragrance and stirred 2 minutes and poured right away it was usually 160 ish and I got smooth beautiful tops slight wet spots occasionally these are the instructions that came with c3 I did not get a nicer candle pouring at lower temps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GailC Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 I've used 444 for years and to me, there is no rhyme or reason as to how the tops will turn out. Sometimes I have sink holes around the wick; sometimes I don't. I've poured slushy and cloudy and barely cloudy and it doesn't seem to matter. I just save a little wax and repour a little if the tops aren't smooth. I do know that dyed candles wind up with more sink holes than undyed. And I barely ever get any in my straight sided jars, just the jars with a smaller diameter at the very top where the lid screws on. Also I used to warm the jars with a heat gun to help wax adhesion, but I quit quite a while ago, because that extra step doesn't seem to matter either as far as having wet spots. I have been pouring a little warmer lately and that seems to help with having fewer wet spots. I can't tell you what temperature because I stopped using a thermometer years ago. I just say soy wax is fickle and accept it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 444 is very inconsistent between lots. That explains a lot of the top issues to me. Pouring warmer and insulating during the cool has really helped in my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandlekrazy Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 The C3 has been inconsistent as well. I'm just breaking into a new lot but the last 2 lots performed differently. I've always added USA and now I'm thinking about leaving it out just to see if the wax is more "normal". I can't pour C3 hot into containers or I end up with hidden holes and tunnels usually right next to the wick. I pour slushy then wait until it's completely set up then I poke holes around the wick and 4 holes a bit away from the wick around the candle and do a 2nd pour or just heat gun depending on what I find. Sometimes I get lucky and there will be a tiny bubble or tiny hole where the bubble was and I know that goes down further and poke there first but that's rare. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, kandlekrazy said: The C3 has been inconsistent as well. I'm just breaking into a new lot but the last 2 lots performed differently. I've always added USA and now I'm thinking about leaving it out just to see if the wax is more "normal". I can't pour C3 hot into containers or I end up with hidden holes and tunnels usually right next to the wick. I pour slushy then wait until it's completely set up then I poke holes around the wick and 4 holes a bit away from the wick around the candle and do a 2nd pour or just heat gun depending on what I find. Sometimes I get lucky and there will be a tiny bubble or tiny hole where the bubble was and I know that goes down further and poke there first but that's rare. I've been testing out slow cool methods to eliminate those holes. So far, so good! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shicks Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 17 hours ago, wcgxxx said: I will pour at 160 with my next batch and see if it works for me. Pour slowly I get beautiful tops 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shicks Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 11 hours ago, kandlekrazy said: The C3 has been inconsistent as well. I'm just breaking into a new lot but the last 2 lots performed differently. I've always added USA and now I'm thinking about leaving it out just to see if the wax is more "normal". I can't pour C3 hot into containers or I end up with hidden holes and tunnels usually right next to the wick. I pour slushy then wait until it's completely set up then I poke holes around the wick and 4 holes a bit away from the wick around the candle and do a 2nd pour or just heat gun depending on what I find. Sometimes I get lucky and there will be a tiny bubble or tiny hole where the bubble was and I know that goes down further and poke there first but that's rare. I pour right after mixing fragrance oil and have burned so many and don't ever poke holes or have caverns I do have the little champagne bubbles I wonder if the caverns are more existent per container poured in? The only time I experience sink holes is when I poured in jars where top is smaller than bottomand poured too high up in the top so I am wondering if they cool to fast in your containers as I have never needed relief holes or second pours with c3. I use the Libby 13 oz tumbler andsma l square mason jars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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