Essential oils vs. Fragrance oils

[lisabeth13]

I have exhausted myself reading through dozens of topics on here... and I was all ready to hop on the FO wagon when I came across people discussing the health issues (asthma, headaches...etc.) they experienced when breathing in FO's for hours everyday. The solution was to wear a respirator. Now... I'd be willing to do that and possibly get an air purifier down the road if that's what needs to be done... but if EO's can work, then I think I'd rather attempt that just for mine and my family's own sake. I'd be doing these candles in a very small apartment with no real way to vent the air. My husband and I have both developed seasonal allergies the last couple of years and our cat seems to have her own set of allergies as she often has sneezing fits. 

 

So, I guess my questions are:

 

1. Have you had any luck getting EO's to work in candles (I'm wanting to use coconut/beeswax)
2. Would EO's work better in something like tarts??
3. How well do they work in soaps & bath bombs? 

 

I really love some of the scents in FO's... but I'm a lot more weary now after having read through some of the posts on here. I even took it one step further and read through some of the MSDS on some oils... one of them said "may cause cancer". I realize most anything can cause cancer these days it feels like but when you've known people who have had cancer ... it really makes you question things like this. Especially when I'd be surrounded by these oils all day and not just a few hours at a time while burning here and there. I was also a bit concerned about the issues FO's present when they end up in the water system and in the MSDS, it says to keep it out of the drains. So... how do you clean your materials when you're done?? Or do they mostly mean just in large quantities? Anyway... what are your thoughts??

[kandlekrazy]

I've only used EO's in soy wax so really can't say how they'd perform in your wax.  In soy, some throw great and some don't hardly throw (just like fo).  EO is considerably more expensive.  I also found in soy, the wax will frost and discolor fairly quickly especially in the melt clamshells so not sure if it's the clamshell causing it or what.  I tried a whole line of EO melts and my FO sold 99% of the time so I discontinued the EO. 

EO is soaps and really any B&B work great, it's all I use.

 

I wear gloves and a respirator when I'm working, even with EO's.  As far as clean up, they mean dumping a bunch of fo directly down the drain, it needs to be disposed of same as any toxic product (however that is in your area).  Wipe your pour pots out with paper towel, then either put away for next time or wash it, whatever your preference is.

[Jcandleattic]

I know some people (like kandlekrazy) are able to get EO's to work for them in candles and B&B products, but I have never had that experience. I could never get an EO to throw in my wax, and in soap, almost every EO I've used (bar a very select few - like Lime EO) have faded to nothing within 6-9 months. 

Although, in lotions and scrubs I have found they are wonderful. 

 

Because of their finicky nature, and the expense associated with most of the EO's, I just stick with FO. 

I've been working with FO's now for 20+ years, on a daily basis, and haven't had any ill affects with headaches (unless it's a scent I'm sensitive too, like lavender which for me is a migraine inducing scent regardless if it's in FO or EO form), nausea, or asthma.

 

I do use a respirator when pouring large batches of candles, though, because all of the mixed scents can be a little overwhelming when I'm down there for hours on end. 

[lisabeth13]

7 minutes ago, Jcandleattic said:

I've been working with FO's now for 20+ years, on a daily basis, and haven't had any ill affects with headaches (unless it's a scent I'm sensitive too, like lavender which for me is a migraine inducing scent regardless if it's in FO or EO form), nausea, or asthma.

That definitely makes me feel a little better. I think I'll still try to avoid the FO's that specifically mention "may cause cancer" (not all of them have that listed). I made a batch that was lavender + vanilla several months ago... it gave me the worst headache and vertigo for several hours. Even if the candle was unlit and I was near it... I started to feel sick again, not quite as bad as when I was making it though. I don't normally have issues with either of those scents so I dunno. I didn't use a respirator so maybe that would've helped. Do you use an air purifier too or just try to keep windows open?  

[Candybee]

I only use FOs made for candlemaking because they simply work the best. I use a lot of EOs in my soap and B&B products. But I still wear a respirator when working with either EOs or FOs. When working with EOs you are working with them full strength and they can be very potent and harmful if you are not careful.

 

[moonshine]

EO can be more dangerous than FO if your not educated on its use

if your even thinking about going down this road please research it thoroughly- plus cats are very sensitive to many EO's

 

to get a good throw using EO it's not cost effective imo and then you could be at the usage rates that are not recommended for safety Guidelines 

an oil diffuser would be better if your wanting to disperse Eo In the air but again be careful

 

and yes what they mean is don't dump a whole bottle of FO down the drain, dispose of it properly 

 

when they say  may cause cancer I am thinking they refer to the oils that contain phthalates which they think could be linked to cancer - there are many FO that do not contain these 

wearing a respirator when making candles is important as your handling the oils in their strongest state - in a finished product the amount released is minute but there are people that are very conscientious about this....so in a nut shell it's your choice FO vs EO but just do your research to make sure your using safe dilution rates of EO- natural isn't always better for you if not used correctly, I have extreme sensitivity to EO now after over exposing myself before I knew what I was doing with them, and I have since dropped using them except on occasion adding a touch to enhance a an FO 

 

there is a lot of good threads in here on EO and safetey you may want to read 

and again this is just my opinion but YL is not a good source of info...any company that tells you it's okay to ingest EO makes me shiver but to each his own 🤷‍♀️

[Candybee]

YL and Doterra are the worst! Uhg! *shudders*

Edited December 4, 2017 by Candybee

[lisabeth13]

@moonshine You made a lot of great points, thank you!  I have been using EO's for years (even before the YL hype - we learned about them a lot when I was in aesthetician school) in a diffuser and in body butters. I don't buy my EO's from any of those pyramid scheme type companies. I'm definitely very cautious using them around my cat. I only put 4-5 drops in my diffuser at a time and she seems to be okay with that. 

 

I 100% agree with you on the ingesting thing. A friend invited me to a DoTerra party once when they were first becoming popular and I was horrified that they were telling everyone to ingest them. They even made everyone snacks that had the oils in them. I couldn't believe they were telling people this was okay when everything I've ever read says not to do that. 

 

That makes sense about the phthalates being the cause of cancer. I'll avoid those and use a respirator. 

 

Thanks again!

[lisabeth13]

1 hour ago, Candybee said:

YL and Doterra are the worst! Uhg! *shudders*

I completely agree! I wish more people would research these companies better. I don't know, maybe they mean well... but I could never buy from either of them.

[Candybee]

This is a little off topic but re your cat. Cats are pretty smart and if she doesn't like a scent you will know right away by her reaction to it. That is also a good indicator of what can be toxic to her. Cats do like some scents and there are a few that are safe in dillutions of 1% or less. But I studied EOs more on dogs than cats so I don't know much about which ones are cat safe. I do know that cats are unable to rid their bodies of toxins like we can so if she injests a toxin it stays in her body. She will be your best indication of what she likes or won't have anything to do with.

 

PS - I do know that tea tree is definitely toxic to cats.

[lisabeth13]

10 minutes ago, Candybee said:

This is a little off topic but re your cat. Cats are pretty smart and if she doesn't like a scent you will know right away by her reaction to it. That is also a good indicator of what can be toxic to her. Cats do like some scents and there are a few that are safe in dillutions of 1% or less. But I studied EOs more on dogs than cats so I don't know much about which ones are cat safe. I do know that cats are unable to rid their bodies of toxins like we can so if she injests a toxin it stays in her body. She will be your best indication of what she likes or won't have anything to do with.

 

PS - I do know that tea tree is definitely toxic to cats.

Thanks, @Candybee ! I use tea tree sometimes in my hand soap but I'm not a huge fan of the smell so I never run that one in my diffuser anyway. I read a list of the ones not safe for cats a long time and I can't recall what was on it but I do remember it wasn't anything I really used in my diffuser. Definitely good to be cautious around pets.

[Jcandleattic]

16 hours ago, lisabeth13 said:

I completely agree! I wish more people would research these companies better. I don't know, maybe they mean well... but I could never buy from either of them.

They do not mean well. They mean to make money, that's it. If they meant well, they would educate their reps, not make claims, and absolutely not tell people to ingest them... 

they have been warned by the FDA on more than one occasion, and they literally just do not care... 

[TallTayl]

4 hours ago, Jcandleattic said:

They do not mean well. They mean to make money, that's it. If they meant well, they would educate their reps, not make claims, and absolutely not tell people to ingest them... 

they have been warned by the FDA on more than one occasion, and they literally just do not care... 

Truer words have never been spoken. They do not mean well. They mean to make money. That is the end of the story.

[lisabeth13]

@Jcandleattic, @TallTayl - I was just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt... buuuut yes, you're right. lol I cringe when people start talking to me about those companies. Not to mention the fact that they are way overpriced. There are better quality and more affordable oils elsewhere. And you are so right about them not educating their reps. There was 3 reps at our party and I asked one of them what makes DoTerra's oils safe to ingest (hint: they aren't!), when everything I've read says not to... she gave me a very blank stare and couldn't really answer my question. 

[candlesinflorida]

Well, I actually have similar concerns about FO.  I am not sure that my little home depot respirator is even adequate to filter the possible FO carcinogens properly...so I think you have very legitimate questions. While it's very comforting to know that a fellow candlemaker has been doing this for years, and has suffered no ill effects-that doesn't mean that you or I will not be affected. Everyone has different genetics and tolerance to carcinogens (or allergens). In fact, I don't think enough research has been done on long-term exposure to these chemicals (which is what the "oils" are!) but there is enough information to make me nervous.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/maria-rodale/five-mustknows-on-the-dan_b_4737654.html

 

I also think we have a responsibility to the people who are enjoying our products. When they hear "soy" and "handmade" or "hand-poured" or whatever, many customers assume that they will be using a natural product. And let's just admit it now: they aren't.

Of course, 99 percent of the candle makers out there are doing the same thing. With that said, I think that we can do better!  A lot of the fragrance oils on the market actually smell noxious (many smell like cheap headache-inducing perfume ) which is why I would love to hear more about EO success stories...and even if they cost more, I am totally fine with that. I think BBW has the cheap candle market cornered, but I think there's room for pricier safer products in the candle marketplace. In other words, I think people will pay more for an amazing EO scented candle, if done well.

I am sure MANY will disagree with me, but as a cancer survivor...I would rather not take chances. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by candlesinflorida

[Moonstar]

On 12/4/2017 at 3:37 PM, moonshine said:

EO can be more dangerous than FO if your not educated on its use

if your even thinking about going down this road please research it thoroughly- plus cats are very sensitive to many EO's

 

to get a good throw using EO it's not cost effective imo and then you could be at the usage rates that are not recommended for safety Guidelines 

an oil diffuser would be better if your wanting to disperse Eo In the air but again be careful

 

and yes what they mean is don't dump a whole bottle of FO down the drain, dispose of it properly 

 

when they say  may cause cancer I am thinking they refer to the oils that contain phthalates which they think could be linked to cancer - there are many FO that do not contain these 

wearing a respirator when making candles is important as your handling the oils in their strongest state - in a finished product the amount released is minute but there are people that are very conscientious about this....so in a nut shell it's your choice FO vs EO but just do your research to make sure your using safe dilution rates of EO- natural isn't always better for you if not used correctly, I have extreme sensitivity to EO now after over exposing myself before I knew what I was doing with them, and I have since dropped using them except on occasion adding a touch to enhance a an FO 

 

there is a lot of good threads in here on EO and safetey you may want to read 

and again this is just my opinion but YL is not a good source of info...any company that tells you it's okay to ingest EO makes me shiver but to each his own 🤷‍♀️

What EO are cats sensitive to ? Ive heard that birds are sensitive to fragrance in general, not sure how true that is. I think I read that here on the forum ? 

[lisabeth13]

2 hours ago, candlesinflorida said:

Well, I actually have similar concerns about FO.  I am not sure that my little home depot respirator is even adequate to filter the possible FO carcinogens properly...so I think you have very legitimate questions. While it's very comforting to know that a fellow candlemaker has been doing this for years, and has suffered no ill effects-that doesn't mean that you or I will not be affected. Everyone has different genetics and tolerance to carcinogens (or allergens). In fact, I don't think enough research has been done on long-term exposure to these chemicals (which is what the "oils" are!) but there is enough information to make me nervous.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/maria-rodale/five-mustknows-on-the-dan_b_4737654.html

 

I also think we have a responsibility to the people who are enjoying our products. When they hear "soy" and "handmade" or "hand-poured" or whatever, many customers assume that they will be using a natural product. And let's just admit it now: they aren't.

Of course, 99 percent of the candle makers out there are doing the same thing. With that said, I think that we can do better!  A lot of the fragrance oils on the market actually smell noxious (many smell like cheap headache-inducing perfume ) which is why I would love to hear more about EO success stories...and even if they cost more, I am totally fine with that. I think BBW has the cheap candle market cornered, but I think there's room for pricier safer products in the candle marketplace. In other words, I think people will pay more for an amazing EO scented candle, if done well.

I am sure MANY will disagree with me, but as a cancer survivor...I would rather not take chances. 

@candlesinflorida I agree with everything you've said! There should be more research done on FO's and the long term effects. I also agree that I would be willing to pay more for the EO's if I could get them to work in candles. Unfortunately, it just seems like they don't. I also don't really have the money to waste testing them to get mostly failures - if I did... I would!! 

My stepdad had cancer and went through chemo for a year... I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. When cancer hits so close to home, it really makes you start questioning the things you expose yourself to on a regular basis. 

[NaughtyNancy]

I haven't had any luck with EO for candles, but I am very amateur still in candle making. EO works great for me in all body products so far, and I buy handmade CP soap bars from local crafters that use EO, smells wonderful, I get mostly patchouli, lavender and tea tree mixes, sometimes rosemary and peppermint. I started branching out into FO for personal fragrance and wax items some months ago. I like the extra diversity, like being able to get a strong note in a body product that wouldn't be safe if strong in EO form, like pine or clove. I use no protective gear and just open a window. Probably dumb but just keepin it real here. Only issue I ever have if I make too much stuff at once is nausea. That's my signal that I got too much in the atmosphere and should have taken a break from crafting sooner.

[TallTayl]

All we have to reference for safety of aromarchemicals (essential oils are also aromachemicals) is the current set of IFRA guidelines. 

 

Category 11 of each certificate lists usage limits for candles, wax melts, etc. I have yet to find one that is not "unrestricted" in this category.

 

essential oils, by the way, are not necessarily GRAS (Generally Regarded as Safe). Only patchouli comes to mind as one that might be still considered GRAS.

 

Essential oils are lending to sensitization issues at a climbing rate from misuse and overuse. Thanks to the mlm companies, I predict essential oils are going to become the peanuts of the future. I have already come across people who experience anaphylactic response to any contact with lavender. Since I use lavender in some soap and candles, residual traces in other soap from being in the same room as those with lavender are enough to trigger an attack. Not sure exactly which of the dozens of aromachemicals in lavender trigger it, so lavendin is also a potential culprit. Anything with linalool could also trigger an event, ruling out even more essential oils. The list goes on. 

 

To claim eo is "safe" and FO is "not safe" in candles you will need to find peer reviewed studies not funded by the eo or FO manufacturers. Claims with that fact based study are opinion and nothing more. I would be hard pressed to find such a study since pure essential oils just are not intended for combustion. 

 

 

[moonshine]

 

@MoonstarIn the classes I took many moons ago I just remember learning cats and EO do not mix ...their liver and kidneys can't metabolize them causing a toxic build up from what I understood and this is in relation to direct contact using them directly on them but breathing them they can become sensitive as well as they are very sensitive to smell in general 

I think it's candybee that has a cat that is very sensitive to FO 

Edited December 6, 2017 by moonshine

[Sarah S]

1 hour ago, TallTayl said:

All we have to reference for safety of aromarchemicals (essential oils are also aromachemicals) is the current set of IFRA guidelines. 

 

Category 11 of each certificate lists usage limits for candles, wax melts, etc. I have yet to find one that is not "unrestricted" in this category.

 

essential oils, by the way, are not necessarily GRAS (Generally Regarded as Safe). Only patchouli comes to mind as one that might be still considered GRAS.

 

Essential oils are lending to sensitization issues at a climbing rate from misuse and overuse. Thanks to the mlm companies, I predict essential oils are going to become the peanuts of the future. I have already come across people who experience anaphylactic response to any contact with lavender. Since I use lavender in some soap and candles, residual traces in other soap from being in the same room as those with lavender are enough to trigger an attack. Not sure exactly which of the dozens of aromachemicals in lavender trigger it, so lavendin is also a potential culprit. Anything with linalool could also trigger an event, ruling out even more essential oils. The list goes on. 

 

To claim eo is "safe" and FO is "not safe" in candles you will need to find peer reviewed studies not funded by the eo or FO manufacturers. Claims with that fact based study are opinion and nothing more. I would be hard pressed to find such a study since pure essential oils just are not intended for combustion. 

 

 

 

❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

 

I will always turn to ingredients that are studied and safe for use. Everything is a chemical. Everything can be dangerous to someone somewhere in some way. I say this not to make light of other's difficulties, but to point out that all we can do is use ingredients that we know are safe to use, that align with our principals (spiritual, moral, environmental, etc), and use them within recommended limits. And of course test our products for safety and other desireable features (fragrance, color, texture, etc). If FOs meet that criteria for you, great. If EOs do, great. That's a personal decision.

I hate it when fear mongers and unscrupulous entities try to take that choice away from us by spreading half truths that prey on good people's desire to do what's right for their loved ones and the world around us. 

 

@lisabeth13, it sounds like you've done some testing because this is important to you. We can give you opinions, point you in a direction to do more research and testing, but ultimately you will have to be ok with what you decide. Maybe there's a middle ground that will make you happy, I don't know, but I would venture to guess most of us have gone through a similar struggle.

[lisabeth13]

@Sarah S Yes, you are right. It will be up to me to decide and honestly, I'm not as worried for the consumer buying my products since they would only be exposed to minimal amounts of FO. I am more concerned for my own health and my family being exposed to large amounts for hours at a time. Perhaps nothing at all would happen but I do still have some concerns. I guess I will need to think on this some more and try to find some peer reviews if there are any.

[moonshine]

10 hours ago, lisabeth13 said:

@Sarah S Yes, you are right. It will be up to me to decide and honestly, I'm not as worried for the consumer buying my products since they would only be exposed to minimal amounts of FO. I am more concerned for my own health and my family being exposed to large amounts for hours at a time. Perhaps nothing at all would happen but I do still have some concerns. I guess I will need to think on this some more and try to find some peer reviews if there are any.

Yes there are concerns as a maker 

I did this for so many years in my kitchen then in my basement with no windows open and my family and pets in the house and never thought anything of it because there was no information hitting me in the face saying I should be concerned 

 

most msds sheets say no respirator needed and nothing is widely talked about handling fragrance and even wax, the new quantum waxes are now saying in their sheets not to breathe the vapors from the wax 

 

I came across a thread in here a few years back that made the bells go off....I can't undo all those years of how I was making but going forward I did buy and now wear a respirator, I was finding my face got itchy and my eyes just hurt pouring and sometimes a headache and cough after

 

I had a exhaust system installed in my storage room where the furnace and water heater are and a system on the furnace that is supposed to zap all chemicals and dust- I forget what it's called but it's a blue light inside the ducts 

 

I only make in that room now and leave the exhaust running for hours after and it's helped tremendously, you can still smell a little in the main basement but not anything like it was before 

 

so do take precaution and I commend you for even thinking about it before getting started because like I said....the possible dangers are not talked about enough- suppliers do not label handle with caution, wear a respirator, etc etc 

 

Edited December 6, 2017 by moonshine

[kandlekrazy]

Just a few added tips for EO's.  If you're going to use them, the citrus will fade the fastest and the EO itself is only good for about a year, others 3-5 years, Patch pretty much forever, lol. 

I keep all my 4-16 oz bottles in a refrigerator.  As the bottle gets airspace (1/2 or more), transfer to a smaller bottle as air can destroy EO.  They are way too expensive to waste product so educate yourself.  As said already, buy from a reputable company (no MLM) and buy where you can get a wholesale account so you're paying 30-50% less than retail.  As I said before, use gloves & a respirator, I can never say that enough.  Even natural products can be harmful.  Many EO's are harmful to children (not just fur babies).

On another note, Lavender doesn't bother me and is the ONLY EO that I use undiluted on burns, scrapes etc.  EO does evaporate quickly so using a carrier oil actually keeps it on your skin for a longer period of time, which means it can work better than undiluted.

I love the medicinal properties of these products so I'm a daily user, even if it's just diffused.  Have coffee EO going right now.....yum!

[lisabeth13]

1 hour ago, kandlekrazy said:

Just a few added tips for EO's.  If you're going to use them, the citrus will fade the fastest and the EO itself is only good for about a year, others 3-5 years, Patch pretty much forever, lol. 

I keep all my 4-16 oz bottles in a refrigerator.  As the bottle gets airspace (1/2 or more), transfer to a smaller bottle as air can destroy EO.  They are way too expensive to waste product so educate yourself.  As said already, buy from a reputable company (no MLM) and buy where you can get a wholesale account so you're paying 30-50% less than retail.  As I said before, use gloves & a respirator, I can never say that enough.  Even natural products can be harmful.  Many EO's are harmful to children (not just fur babies).

On another note, Lavender doesn't bother me and is the ONLY EO that I use undiluted on burns, scrapes etc.  EO does evaporate quickly so using a carrier oil actually keeps it on your skin for a longer period of time, which means it can work better than undiluted.

I love the medicinal properties of these products so I'm a daily user, even if it's just diffused.  Have coffee EO going right now.....yum!

Yeah, they are definitely way too expensive to waste. My favorite company is Simplers Botanicals. They're definitely on the pricier side but out of all the brands I've tried... these smell the best. They smell so pure. I will definitely get a respirator though and wear gloves. I was going through a lot of lavender and still am... but rose geranium is probably my new favorite. I can't get enough of it! haha. We don't have kids yet but I will definitely be extra cautious using these things around them when we do. Ideally, I'd like to have a space to make products outside our home but we just aren't at that point yet. So I'll have to make do and just be very careful in the meantime.  

 

Also, I had no idea there was coffee EO!! Where have I been??? I need to get some ASAP! haha.

Edited December 6, 2017 by lisabeth13