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First Craft Show! - Issue with candles sweating??

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10 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

A candle (soap, lotion, bath bomb, etc)  goes through a lot of changes in a year, which is why many suggest longer * time * to learn and test, not just number of batches. 

 

 Having only just begun in August you have not seen those effects of time yet, and have not had enough time to master your craft. 

 

If if you stick with it you will see by this time next year how much more you will know and understand. When you go back and read you will see as others do now.

 

You will see other newbies next year in the same predicament as you are in now and will have sage  words of advice for them. 

Thank you for the advice :)

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And much as it sucks, I know you guys are TOTALLY alright, I think I just needed to hear this a few times for it to sink in! The best thing for me to do is delay. I really appreciate all the advice and have already realized that the more I learn, the more I realize what I do NOT know!! All the sage advice is greatly appreciated!!!! At what point do you all think that I will know that I am ready to start selling? I understand it’s not all about number of batches but I had SO many consistent batches. It has only been  been working since August but it’s been 24/7 & all my results were consistent until this last batch.. any further advice is appreciated!! I don’t want to get myself in this pickle again, I’ve been stressing all week over this & it’s diff not fun! Haha :) @moonshine @TallTayl @GoldieMN

Edited by ChristinaD

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Your welcome and if you want more feedback you could send out a few to some very experienced chandlers in here for feedback- I do this often 

 

also if your concerned about looking back on your website you can just tell them the new regulations in soy wax has caused a bump in the road and you will be delayed 

I lost most of my season over this crap and people understand ...I am almost depleted of old stock but need to be sure the wax I put out there next is going to perform as expected and it's been since summer and I'm still not quite there but getting closer and I have been doing this part time over 10 years 

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@moonshine thank you so much! I never thought to send candles to some of the more experienced people here! That is a wonderful idea! I think once I have another batch that I feel is good, I will contact some of you for opinions! That makes me feel so much better about moving forward!

Also, I think I will blame it on the soy wax issues, as that really is partially to blame on them, and me jumping the gun 🙈 thanks again!

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17 minutes ago, ChristinaD said:

And much as it sucks, I know you guys are TOTALLY alright, I think I just needed to hear this a few times for it to sink in! The best thing for me to do is delay. I really appreciate all the advice and have already realized that the more I learn, the more I realize what I do NOT know!! All the sage advice is greatly appreciated!!!! At what point do you all think that I will know that I am ready to start selling? I understand it’s not all about number of batches but I had SO many consistent batches. It has only been  been working since August but it’s been 24/7 & all my results were consistent until this last batch.. any further advice is appreciated!! I don’t want to get myself in this pickle again, I’ve been stressing all week over this & it’s diff not fun! Haha :) @moonshine @TallTayl @GoldieMN

It does blow believe me but maybe take this new lot of wax and start from ground zero - maybe do a cake pan test with a few different series of wicks and naked wax 

test at 1 hour intervals and move it around room to room  

see if it shows any signs of the sweating all by itself ....then once you finish the test take the best wick from that test and do it again In your jars naked and then do it again with fragrance 

 

You will know when your ready....you had doubt that were ready all on your own with your post, so you will know when you feel confident in the wax....chin up you came this far you can do this 

It very well could be a fluke or bad batch but this way you will know testing the new stuff from the ground up 

Edited by moonshine

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With news of the fragrance reformulating I wonder if this needs to be added as a variable to the leaking candles. 

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3 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

With news of the fragrance reformulating I wonder if this needs to be added as a variable to the leaking candles. 

What do you mean?

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Luckily - as far as the website goes - I didn’t do a huge announcement with a date for my opening - all of my posts just said coming soon. But I told individual people (on public comments) that we were opening this weekend. So I just went to those people private messaged to let them know we would not be opening just yet :) I plan just to keep my opening date vague (as I no longer know it)

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A picture tells a thousand words. I have seen oil sweating/seeping out in 464 and the old EcoSoya Xcel when it was available as well and I found it occurring with humid conditions and temperature changes, just like your photo shows. I found that it was common in winter when I moved candles that were at approximately 16 deg C to a room where it was around 21-22 deg C and I always assumed it was fragrance oil as well until I made up a blend of Naturewax Coconut 2 from Cargill and 4630 Paraffin with no fragrance oil and found it sweating just like in your photo. I burned the sweating candles and found no problems with the burn. I also burned sweating candles with fragrance oil in them and never had any problems. I was communicating with another forum member privately this year and she was having similar sweating issues with 464 when she first lit her candles and she never mentioned that she had any burn issues….now, I love Voluspa candles and I purchase a lot of them here in Australia where it can get quite humid and under go savage temperature fluctuations in seconds and they always arrive with pools of sweat on the tops (just like your photos show) when I purchase them online and have them delivered. Most of the time the candles arrive with no oil spills as long as the lids are secured properly, there has only been one occasion where a candle leaked a little bit and that was because the lid was dislodged due to a serious case of a lack of proper packing material. I have burned them all and there has never been an issue. I have also found that when the candles were placed in cooler conditions, the sweat/moisture was reabsorbed in to the wax. The conclusion that I reached was that the old Xcel was definitely blended with various things and I suspect oils where included in the blend, 464 was not technically a pure soy wax because the manufacturers added a 2% oil additive to the wax during manufacture and my experiment with Coconut 2 and 4630 that had no fragrance oil in it showed that there was oil that was easily released under certain atmospheric conditions. My guess is that the sweating is a combination of manufacturer’s added oil combined with a small amount of fragrance oil being released from the wax when the candle goes through a humid temperature change. (Oh, I have also noticed it with Aquiesse candles as well and I have never noticed an issue when the candle was burning.)

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@inthedark Thank you so much for your insight! I have decided not to sell these candles, but will be burning through them for learning and experimentation.

al if this ever happens again, I will hopefully be equipped to handle it. I had 100 candles in the batch, so I’ll be giving some to testers and family also, who I’ve told what to looks for and report back :)

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On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 9:39 AM, TallTayl said:

I have a question about that suggested method of "evaporating" water from molten wax. Water sinks to the bottom of the melt po as it has a higher specific gravity than wax.  You can often see if water is in there as contained bubbles on the bottom. how will it ever evaporate if trapped by wax?

I was going to say the exact same thing. The water will sink to the bottom of the melted wax. When I got my pallet of 415 in Sept, the first box I opened had condensation all over the inside of the bag. Of course, I was freaking out and called the guy from the wax lab at AKA. He told me to open the boxes ahead of time and let them air out. Thankfully the other boxes were dry, but I'm still opening them and airing them out.

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@Lighten Up I am doing that with my current box & so far that is working well! The local store I got my box from suggested that, wish I had thought of it sooner! I usually leave the boxes open, once I use them, but I didn’t think to open them ahead of time before. 

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I haven't read all four pages so I'm not certain if anyone mentioned this.

 

Cool temperatures may cause freshly poured 464 to sweat. I had this happen recently when I grabbed a box of freshly poured (less than 24hrs) candles instead of a cured box. The box was left in the car for several hours, which allowed the candles to cool to less than 50F. I've never had 464 sweat until this happened, so I'm under the assumption that allowing the new candles to go below 60F caused the wax to "rapidly" set up and crystalize, forcing out the FO. The sweating lasted for about 24hrs and only appeared around the outer 1/4" of the candle, which is why I think it was a temperature issue - the centers would have held in more heat, explaining the lack of sweating around the wick. One did crack as well, which -never- happens.

 

Then again, I'm probably wrong. The OP mentioned that the 464 wasn't the same as previous 464. It just so happens that I received 10lb bags from CandleScience this month, which also happen to be the bags I used to make the candles that sweated. I used the same "recipe" as I did when testing #2 wicks and stearic, as suggested in another thread: 464, 1.7% stearic, 6% FO, and #2 wick primed with the 464. The candles made that way with a batch of 464 I received earlier in the year turned out to be the best 464 candles I've had since the 464 wicking fiasco. The candles made with the new bags of 464 (same box that I accidentally exposed to cold)... sweating, smoking, and a HT so weak I don't know why I added FO. The new 464 was obviously softer and more "greasy" and, maybe it was me, appeared clearer when melted... like what I'd expect from coconut wax. I know I shouldn't complain or criticize about this but the new 464 was oddly lacking in wet spots even after exposure to cold and the surfaces were perfectly smooth after burning, whereas the older 464 often left severe "scars". There is a definite difference between the older 464 that I used and the newer 464. I wonder if Akosoy has done it again and tampered with a good thing.

 

As for my sweating, it was either an oil in the wax or the FO itself. I wiped it off a few times during a 24hr period and it was highly fragrant as though it was pure FO. Interestingly, it didn't pool on the bottom or sides of the candles, only on the top. After roughly 24hrs, it stopped. There was zero chance of moisture being incorporated into the wax between the time I opened the new bags of 464 and pouring the candles; used a presto pot dedicated to wax, a pouring pot that -never- gets washed, and I even cut a corner and didn't wash the jars this time. FO's used were from Aztec, Cierra, TFC, and CandleScience.

 

 

Edit: I just noticed this thread is nearly a month old... How did I miss it?

Edited by Kerven
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On 12/8/2017 at 8:39 AM, TallTayl said:

I have a question about that suggested method of "evaporating" water from molten wax. Water sinks to the bottom of the melt po as it has a higher specific gravity than wax.  You can often see if water is in there as contained bubbles on the bottom. how will it ever evaporate if trapped by wax? It is the same principle as canning using wax to seal the contents below. 

 

when I clean dirty beeswax and the beeswax melters I use gallons of water to get the last bits of precious wax in the melter to rise. Then cool the melter, peel off the cleaned wax and allow to dry completely. Otherwise the wax will never release the water. have done similar with soy wax blends, but never used the soy wax after. 

 

Okay, so I did a little non-professional test just to see what some water added to soy flakes would do in a small pan.

 

The pan with some water weighed 6.10 ounces and with wax added, it weighed 6.40 ounces.  (After the test, it weighed 6.30 ounces.) To this, I added one drop of blue food coloring so I could see the water better.  I took some (crummy quality) pics along the way.  I heated it up to 185dF and tried to maintain the temp., failing to do so and sometimes it went up to 200dF and back down again.  When it looked as though all of the bubbles from the water were gone, it hardened ... with some of the tint of color remaining ... I added the wax to an existing candle that was in need of a wick clipping, and it burned fine, no popping or anything, I think most or all of the water had evaporated.

 

test1.jpg.d5bb387c15e62cb276decd943fbe094b.jpgtest2.jpg.8789bba200220381e108023a60b43b89.jpgtest3.jpg.3a730f36bcfd6b3380bc376a56722fd5.jpgtest4.jpg.84bc5913f9692077c12f51fe6f388475.jpgtest5.jpg.6a6f46378a3557e18908f22f5f48c320.jpg

 

 

Edited by birdcharm
To add: (After the test, it weighed 6.30 ounce.)

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Interesting test. If the wax blend has an emulsifier, the water “could” be just blended into the wax. What was the final weight?

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10 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Interesting test. If the wax blend has an emulsifier, the water “could” be just blended into the wax. What was the final weight?

 

The pan with the water was 6.10 ounces, with the addition of the soy flakes, it was 6.40 ... after the melting/heating, it weighed 6.30 ounces, which is wax weight only in the pan.  It may be that your beeswax traps the water, but the much lighter soy wax (464 in this case), allows for it to escape.

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On 12/30/2017 at 9:19 PM, Kerven said:

....  The OP mentioned that the 464 wasn't the same as previous 464. It just so happens that I received 10lb bags from CandleScience this month, which also happen to be the bags I used to make the candles that sweated.  I used the same "recipe" as I did when testing #2 wicks and stearic, as suggested in another thread: 464, 1.7% stearic, 6% FO, and #2 wick primed with the 464. The candles made that way with a batch of 464 I received earlier in the year turned out to be the best 464 candles I've had since the 464 wicking fiasco.

 

It's nice to see that you tried my "recipe" and had good results with it!  :)

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@Birdcharm Formula, recipe, whichever you call it... perfectly smooth tops, good throw, steady flame, good MP formation. It worked great! That is, with the 464 I already had. The new bags didn't turn out the same for some reason :( I'm still working with it to see if I can figure out what's different. Thank you for the suggestion! I'd have never thought to try square braided wicks with soy.

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On 12/5/2017 at 9:23 AM, ChristinaD said:

Yes, they are the 9oz straight wall jars. I am currently using Eco 10's and have had ZERO issues

 

 

 

Hi @ChristinaD. I really like your jars and your label designs. Nice job.

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