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I believe the recommended pouring temperature is at about 125-145dF ... I pour it at about 140-150, a little less if I got busy with something else and it cooled down a bit more, stirring once again before pouring.  It seems that the tops were smoother at around 140-150 rather than 125.  For the suggestions you mentioned to pour at 190, I've never seen that in regard to soy wax.

 

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I've never seen a pour temp that high either....maybe she meant to say from 90 to 150?

 

I would be worried pouring at a high temperature the possibility of the wick tab lifting from the glass bottom..I've often thought of that happening....

 

Trappeur

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  • 2 months later...

By sink holes, do you mean air cavities? 444 used to be super easy. This last year complaints a plenty about the same thing. 

 

I dont see, to get them in my 8 oz tins when I pour on the cool side (cloudy, almost slush).  As @Trappeur noted, pouring hot risks popping the wick tabs and also melting the wax coating on the wick. That wax coating really helps keep it from slumping into the MP.

 

with larger containers that cool slower it is harder. I recently made fairly large  (1 lb of wax) and a wood wick in a ceramic jar. the entire area around the wick was air pocket on two. The tops looked great. The wood wick would not stay lit - when I looked I could see why. A knife slipped easily down both sides of the wick with wiggle room. I poured those a little hotter, but now will always poke and fill around undo that wick

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1 hour ago, TallTayl said:

By sink holes, do you mean air cavities? 444 used to be super easy. This last year complaints a plenty about the same thing. 

 

I dont see, to get them in my 8 oz tins when I pour on the cool side (cloudy, almost slush).  As @Trappeur noted, pouring hot risks popping the wick tabs and also melting the wax coating on the wick. That wax coating really helps keep it from slumping into the MP.

 

with larger containers that cool slower it is harder. I recently made fairly large  (1 lb of wax) and a wood wick in a ceramic jar. the entire area around the wick was air pocket on two. The tops looked great. The wood wick would not stay lit - when I looked I could see why. A knife slipped easily down both sides of the wick with wiggle room. I poured those a little hotter, but now will always poke and fill around undo that wick

 

Yeah like this... I haven't been able to prevent this from happening ever with 444 in my jam jars. Different pour temps, heating up the jars etc... So I gave up and heatgun each of them which takes quite some time.

 

Pretty much like this: 

 

 

 

 

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Yeah. I wonder what the additive is in 444 that makes it cool so strangely. 

 

That would happen in my C3 blends unless I poured in the super slushy stage. The wax contracted so hard outwardly that the wick wax got sucked away. I would have to excavate for the holes because tops would look would only find out if you lit and flared. 

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11 hours ago, strugglebrother said:

 

Yeah like this... I haven't been able to prevent this from happening ever with 444 in my jam jars. Different pour temps, heating up the jars etc... So I gave up and heatgun each of them which takes quite some time.

 

Pretty much like this: 

 

 

 

 

Even pouring to almost slush?

I haven't come across this yet in tins or Mason jars - I pour at 100-105 in warm containers just when it starts to cloud - now when I pour when it's cloudy I get a crystalized top- some tops are "wavy" and others are baby but smooth....this is finicky soy wax to pour - like TT stated I wonder what that additive is, I have found it's soy based additives but the only ones I know of are USA and I used to use it all the time with 415 and my tops were more consistent than 444

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2 hours ago, moonshine said:

Even pouring to almost slush?

I haven't come across this yet in tins or Mason jars - I pour at 100-105 in warm containers just when it starts to cloud - now when I pour when it's cloudy I get a crystalized top- some tops are "wavy" and others are baby but smooth....this is finicky soy wax to pour - like TT stated I wonder what that additive is, I have found it's soy based additives but the only ones I know of are USA and I used to use it all the time with 415 and my tops were more consistent than 444

 

Yeah, I tried to pour when it's slushy also.

 

Yes it's definitely better with 415 and 464 but 444 has the strongest cold throw for me so I'm sticking to it.

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@TallTayl So your 444 from BA and CS was different from Candlewic's? I wonder if that's why I had issues with CS's 464 but not as much with Candlewic's. Maybe 464 hasn't had a recent change like I thought...

 

I don't know what additive is in 444, but the universal additive for soy is a monoglyceride, I believe.

Edited by Kerven
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Yep

my BA 444 is different from candlewics

i am having to wick up the candlewics

 

hopefully the additive keeps it somehat consistent as I do like the wax so far 

 

I used USA in 415 and I do not think that is what is added in the 444- the 444 is rock hard ....but maybe it's just a higher percentage of USA 

the soy modifier from American soy seems to be a closer match of what's in the 444

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I just made 150 lbs worth of candles with this wax. And close to my last batch I found the perfect pouring temperature for me was 107 degrees. No sink holes. I started pouring at 135 degrees and nothing but sinkholes. I slowly worked my way down batch after batch. 

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4 minutes ago, nursenancy said:

Strange - I pour hot with 444 - I've been using it at least 5 years.  I heat to 180, add FO, dye, stir and pour - I always get smooth tops.

At high temps like that I get smooth tops, but loads of cavities beneath that pretty surface. As the candles burn you can see the wax emptying into the holes, and bubbles burping up. Flares and tunneling are real problems with 444.

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15 hours ago, TallTayl said:

At high temps like that I get smooth tops, but loads of cavities beneath that pretty surface. As the candles burn you can see the wax emptying into the holes, and bubbles burping up. Flares and tunneling are real problems with 444.

 

@TallTayl, do you find that once you nail down the right pour temp for 444, that it's worth it to stick with it? Or do the flares/tunneling tend to be issues that pop up no matter what?

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1 hour ago, olives said:

 

@TallTayl, do you find that once you nail down the right pour temp for 444, that it's worth it to stick with it? Or do the flares/tunneling tend to be issues that pop up no matter what?

It is too early to tell. My test cases and new cases (manufactured a month apart) are performs very differently. Pouring cool I could control the cavities in the old. I need to do more testing with  the new.

 

overall, it is better than 415 and 464 IMO. At least I can wick hot enough to get hot throw without having to add hardeners!

 

all soy can form cavities, I found. Certain additives can promote those cavities as the crystals form during cooling are irregular. 

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