Wicking Coconut Wax

[Laura C]

On 9/24/2017 at 1:37 PM, ShineOn said:

Has anyone had any luck wicking coconut wax? I am using coconut wax 83 from Calcandlesupply and I am having a hard time finding proper wicks. I've tested different FO's, different jar sizes. So far very FO and jar combinations  work well, the majority of them give me a tall smoking flame. Sometimes the first burn will be fine but the second burn will give me a tall flame even after trimming the wick or vice versa. I've tried eco, CD, LX, HTP and nothing. 

Hi Shine On. I know this is an old post but here's my suggestions. I have used that same coconut wax and I had good luck with HTP, Performa and Premier 700 wicks. That same wax listed under different names is also sold at Candles and Supplies, Northwood Candle Supply and Accu-Blend Corp.

[Laura C]

On 9/25/2017 at 10:26 PM, ComfortandJoy said:

 

I just made the wood wick batch today and I will post results in a week or so.  I got mine from woodenwick.com - I like how they have several types/sizes.  I find most weeks tend to slump or lean inmy candles.  I'm guessing that won't happen with a rigid wooden wick.

 

The beeswax has helped tame the wick.

Hello. Just wanted to jump in since you all are talking about blending coconut and beeswax.

 

It sounds nice but with my experience (albeit limited) the beeswax smell changes the intended fragrances too much for my liking. Or at least it did when I used the pre-blended Coconut and Beeswax mix from Candles and Supplies called SLAB COCONUT CONTAINER BLEND WAX. Maybe if I used a blend with less Beeswax I may like it better. It's something to consider. I'm really big on scents and I want them to smell true and not convoluted with the smell of beeswax. And yes, that Coconut Wax blend is suppose to contain beeswax unless the person that works there didn't know what they were talking about. I called them up and asked them what is the difference between the two coconut waxes. http://www.candlesandsupplies.net/5-lb.-SLAB-Coconut-Container-Blend-Wax?sc=7&category=333096 Just thought you might like to know this and have another option.

 

Also, FYI, I called Accu-Blend Corp. that makes coconut waxes, particularly the Coconut 83 wax and the person said that Candles and Supplies, Northwood Candle Supply and California Candle Supply are all their distributors and carry their waxes. I was also told that the coconut blend with "hybrid" in the name contains paraffin. I'm only going by what I was told by people that work there so you hope that people are honest and know what they are selling. Hope this helps everyone.

 

90% coconut with 10% blend of soy & palm waxes (that seems questionable as hard as my candles turn out w/o additional additives)

coconut, soy, palm blend http://www.accu-blend.com/HTML Files/all_nat_coconut.htm

coconut, soy, palm blend http://calcandlesupply.com/coconut-83-wax-all-natural-coconut-wax/

coconut, soy, palm blend http://www.candlesandsupplies.net/Easy-Beads-Coconut-Container-Wax-Blend-per-10-lb.-bag?sc=7&category=333096

coconut, soy, palm blend https://www.northwoodcandlesupply.com/collections/candle-wax/products/coconut-candle-wax

 

coconut beeswax blend (unless it's actually coconut & paraffin) http://www.candlesandsupplies.net/5-lb.-SLAB-Coconut-Container-Blend-Wax?sc=7&category=333096

 

coconut paraffin blend http://calcandlesupply.com/sc-21-wax-coconut-hybrid-blend/

coconut paraffin blend http://www.accu-blend.com/HTML Files/hybrid_coconut.htm

 

 

 

 

[Kerven]

I'm still convinced that Coco83 has paraffin in it. The MSDS even lists paraffin fumes as an inhalation hazard.

However, I am a little confused by the spec sheet for the hybrid coconut wax and the MSDS for the "all natural" coconut wax. The spec sheet states "Accu-Pure 83" while the MSDS states "All Natural Coconut #83". Dunno what sort of confusion is going on there.

 

That said, has anyone noticed a weird smell to their Coco83? I just went through my testers to see if I had made anything previously that might be promising to pick up again, and the one blend that I made with Coco83 still stinks. Very greasy. Like lard or some form of animal grease. Wondering if there's tallow-derived stearic in it. I mean, it absolutely smells like someone had been frying in it... or they reclaimed oils used in restaurant fryers to make that wax. Haven't used any FO's in it but I am a little concerned that the smell will carry over.

 

[moonshine]

Coco 83 is the beads right?  I am still so confused on what is what and mainly because the first coconut I ever ordered was candle and supplies coconut container slab and that has a sticker right on it stating coco83

when I callled them to distinguish the difference after ordering the beads they told me the beads was 83 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Sooooo of your talking the beads like candles and supplies has yes it reaks like a deep fryer out of the box and even melting but I do not detect any of that when burning it with fragrance oil 

ct I do not either.... now I was told that was coconut soy veggie (probably meaning palm) no paraffin directly from them and there was zero mention of beeswax in either of the coconuts

so confused 🙈

Edited August 23, 2018 by moonshine

[Laura C]

57 minutes ago, Kerven said:

I'm still convinced that Coco83 has paraffin in it. The MSDS even lists paraffin fumes as an inhalation hazard.

However, I am a little confused by the spec sheet for the hybrid coconut wax and the MSDS for the "all natural" coconut wax. The spec sheet states "Accu-Pure 83" while the MSDS states "All Natural Coconut #83". Dunno what sort of confusion is going on there.

 

That said, has anyone noticed a weird smell to their Coco83? I just went through my testers to see if I had made anything previously that might be promising to pick up again, and the one blend that I made with Coco83 still stinks. Very greasy. Like lard or some form of animal grease. Wondering if there's tallow-derived stearic in it. I mean, it absolutely smells like someone had been frying in it... or they reclaimed oils used in restaurant fryers to make that wax. Haven't used any FO's in it but I am a little concerned that the smell will carry over.

 

I'm with you on the paraffin suspicion. The Coco83 has characteristics of paraffin, palm or microcrystalline waxes. My candle tops are hard, smooth as silk and the wax looks clear as the candle is melting. I also noticed that about the MSDS sheets on Accu-Blend's website. I spoke to a person there and they said they have two versions of coconut wax, one with paraffin and one without and the Coco83 is suppose to be without but it's questionable. Anyway, I just want to make the best candle I can, paraffin or not.

 

I will have to get out some of my older candles and smell them again but I don't remember noticing any bad odors from the wax or candles. Do you have problems with the Cold and Hot scent throw being hit or miss? Strong or weak? I can't get consistent scent throw with the same scents no matter what I do. I just ordered some fresh wax to see if maybe that's the problem.

[Laura C]

32 minutes ago, moonshine said:

Coco 83 is the beads right?  I am still so confused on what is what and mainly because the first coconut I ever ordered was candle and supplies coconut container slab and that has a sticker right on it stating coco83

when I callled them to distinguish the difference after ordering the beads they told me the beads was 83 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Sooooo of your talking the beads like candles and supplies has yes it reaks like a deep fryer out of the box and even melting but I do not detect any of that when burning it with fragrance oil 

ct I do not either.... now I was told that was coconut soy veggie (probably meaning palm) no paraffin directly from them and there was zero mention of beeswax in either of the coconuts

so confused 🙈

LOL. Hi @moonshine, did you miss my post up above? It lists the different suppliers of the Coconut 83 wax. For some reason they all want to name it and market it differently. Just trying to stand out I guess and yes, it's very confusing to the buyers. That's why I started making phone calls to the companies and asking questions. I had bought that same coconut wax from 3 different companies, LOL. All my candles were the same, I knew it must have been the same wax.

 

So, anyway, I will buy the Coco 83 from where ever I get the best price and cheapest shipping. Looks like that will be Candles and Supplies.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Laura C

[Kerven]

I didn't make many candles with the Coco83. They were all testers, although the few that were scented were... odd. Some FO's lost their top notes and the rest smelled a bit off somehow (not that greasy scent but just... off). I couldn't figure out what was going on, so they ended up in the tester graveyard (cabinet). I tested with FO's that were rated for use in soy. FO's that don't do well in soy might do well in the coconut wax. That's something to look into.

 

One problem with coconut waxes is that they melt so easily, requiring a smaller wick, which can't heat the melt pool to a high enough temperature for a good throw. TallTayl suggested adding some of the scented wax to a melter to see if it throws. If it does throw, then it's probably too low of a melt pool temp. It's one of the reasons why I note melt pool temperature while testing.

[Kerven]

Forgot to add that my candles weren't 100% Coco83. Couldn't figure out which wick series to use for straight Coco83, so anything made was a blend with large percentages of soy. I was also testing Candlewic's coconut-apricot wax as well, which seemed to be better with both CT and HT than Coco83.

 

I think I'm going to go back and do some more wick testing on a Coco83 blend I started in early spring. It's beautiful and firm, although it still has that greasy smell from the coconut wax.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Kerven

[Laura C]

24 minutes ago, Kerven said:

I didn't make many candles with the Coco83. They were all testers, although the few that were scented were... odd. Some FO's lost their top notes and the rest smelled a bit off somehow (not that greasy scent but just... off). I couldn't figure out what was going on, so they ended up in the tester graveyard (cabinet). I tested with FO's that were rated for use in soy. FO's that don't do well in soy might do well in the coconut wax. That's something to look into.

 

One problem with coconut waxes is that they melt so easily, requiring a smaller wick, which can't heat the melt pool to a high enough temperature for a good throw. TallTayl suggested adding some of the scented wax to a melter to see if it throws. If it does throw, then it's probably too low of a melt pool temp. It's one of the reasons why I note melt pool temperature while testing.

Awh, you bring up some good points. Yes, I wonder if some of my fragrances were for soy wax? Will have to check. I have not been checking the melt pool temps, good idea. Yes, TallTayl has a good idea with testing scent throw of the wax on a melter. Thanks everybody.

[Kerven]

I find that 145F, maybe a little more, is a good melt pool temperature to aim for. Most candles will reach that without problem. However, these coconut waxes with low melt point lipids have trouble doing that without developing an inch deep melt pool... but melt pool depth is something of a topic for debate. Personally, I like to see my melt pools around 1/4-1/3" in depth.

[moonshine]

6 hours ago, Laura C said:

LOL. Hi @moonshine, did you miss my post up above? It lists the different suppliers of the Coconut 83 wax. For some reason they all want to name it and market it differently. Just trying to stand out I guess and yes, it's very confusing to the buyers. That's why I started making phone calls to the companies and asking questions. I had bought that same coconut wax from 3 different companies, LOL. All my candles were the same, I knew it must have been the same wax.

 

So, anyway, I will buy the Coco 83 from where ever I get the best price and cheapest shipping. Looks like that will be Candles and Supplies.

Hi Laura 

I did read your post above but I’m still so confused 

according to your list Calcandle and accublend show what’s supposed to be 83 as slabs and northwoods and candles and supplies show it as “beads” so are they same? I never tried any coconuts other than candles and supplies to know the differences 

my coconut slab from there is stickered as coco 83....they told me the beads was 83 so I’m a little lost 

the slab has a odor more so than the beads to me in the cured candle and takes forever to cure in a candle to get any throw 

I love the beads so far.....still blending and testing wicks but I’m almost there and it seems to be consistent which is a huge plus over the straight soy alone imo 

@Kerven I see the same with the melt pool- it can get way deep to get great throw with this wax and then it can soot like crazy - the balancing act is very tricky 

[TallTayl]

The beads I have always received are a bit more ivory than the slabs. 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

All I know is I have 400 more lbs to go through of beads so I need to figure them out and fast. 🙃🤪

[Laura C]

2 hours ago, moonshine said:

Hi Laura 

I did read your post above but I’m still so confused 

according to your list Calcandle and accublend show what’s supposed to be 83 as slabs and northwoods and candles and supplies show it as “beads” so are they same? I never tried any coconuts other than candles and supplies to know the differences 

my coconut slab from there is stickered as coco 83....they told me the beads was 83 so I’m a little lost 

the slab has a odor more so than the beads to me in the cured candle and takes forever to cure in a candle to get any throw 

I love the beads so far.....still blending and testing wicks but I’m almost there and it seems to be consistent which is a huge plus over the straight soy alone imo 

@Kerven I see the same with the melt pool- it can get way deep to get great throw with this wax and then it can soot like crazy - the balancing act is very tricky 

Hi @moonshine.

To answer your question, yes, the coconut 83 slabs and beads are the same wax, they are just presenting them differently to look like different products. I have used all the versions of the coconut 83 wax and it is the same, all my candles turn out the same. From what I was told and from what I have experienced, the only one that is difference is the "slab" coconut wax at Candles and Supplies, it has some beeswax mixed in it. A person at C&S told me it had some beeswax mixed in it, I suggested that they list that on their website but they have not. I noticed my candles made with that slab coconut wax were a little different and had a different smell, especially when I added scent. My scents don't smell the same in the C&S slab coconut wax as they do in the regular Coconut 83 waxes. Hope that helps to clear up any confusion. And always feel free to call these people up and ask them questions, I do, it's their product. Go to the source and get a straight answer. ☺️

[moonshine]

I have called them a couple times and have been given totally different answers 😂

I was told none of their cocos contain beeswax at C and S....go figure but thanks for clearing up the confusion on 83 I didn’t realize there was slab form and “bead” form

 

[Laura C]

25 minutes ago, moonshine said:

I have called them a couple times and have been given totally different answers 😂

I was told none of their cocos contain beeswax at C and S....go figure but thanks for clearing up the confusion on 83 I didn’t realize there was slab form and “bead” form

 

You're welcome. Now, I too am wondering if I was given false information about the beeswax when I called them. I don't know why they can't get their story straight and be honest. But that slab coconut wax version at C&S is different in some way, or at least it was when I purchased it. I bought some when they first offered it and talked to the person there. They could have decided to remove the beeswax but I don't know, I have not bought any more of it recently. 

[Laura C]

On 10/23/2017 at 5:09 AM, CandleCrafter6 said:

I have had amazing luck using Cotton Core wicks. They are a match made in heaven. Burns amazing. You need a wick that won’t burn too hot that’s why cotton core works fantastic. Also I know it’s not recommended and something that has to be done. But let the candles made with this wax cure for a few days. Scent throw will knock your socks off. If you burn immediately it won’t be as good as it can be. Hope this helps. 

Hi @CandleCrafter6, which coconut wax are you using? And are you using any additives or additional waxes with it?

[Bambi]

Hi Laura, are these the wicks that start with numbers like 36-24-24C? Do you have to under wick with this type? Thanks for sharing.

[Bambi]

Sorry Laura, I thought you made the statement about the cotton core wicks.

[Bambi]

On 10/23/2017 at 5:09 AM, CandleCrafter6 said:

I have had amazing luck using Cotton Core wicks. They are a match made in heaven. Burns amazing. You need a wick that won’t burn too hot that’s why cotton core works fantastic. Also I know it’s not recommended and something that has to be done. But let the candles made with this wax cure for a few days. Scent throw will knock your socks off. If you burn immediately it won’t be as good as it can be. Hope this helps. 

Hi @CandleCrafter6 are these the wicks that start with numbers like 36-24-24C? Do you have to under wick with this type? Thanks for sharing.

[Ruru]

On 9/25/2017 at 1:39 PM, Kerven said:

The coconut wax from C&S is a coconut/soy blend, as is the coconut from Northwood. I'm not certain what the percentage of soy is in the C&S blend. I'd guess it's a proprietary blend with a higher % of soy. The Northwood blend is 90% coconut with the rest being palm and soy. Another proprietary blend, I'd guess... but maybe coconut 83 in disguise? Coconut 83 by ACCU-Blend (Accu-Pure 83), sold by Calcandlesupply, who also claims that it is mostly coconut wax, is a coconut blend that contains vegetable and soy waxes. Candlewic's coconut blend contains apricot and a small amount of paraffin. They supposedly blend their own, so I'm not familiar with the percentages.

Northwood's high percentage of coconut might explain the mushrooming. I had both these issues - large flame, smoke/mushrooming - with Candlewic's coconut/apricot blend. However, I did manage to "tame" it by mixing with soy. I've found that, as the percentage of soy increases, coconut/soy blends are much easier to wick in comparison to straight coconut. That may be due to my familiarity with working with soy. Nevertheless, I'm testing 75/25 and 50/50 blends of my own creation with ECO wicks and the results are very promising.

 

I'd suggest blending the coconut wax with soy. Since coconut 83 already has a bit of soy in it, I'd start with a 60/40 blend, coconut to soy. The soy you use may have an impact. I used 464 with my blends. Personally, I think blending spares the headache of trying to wick a high percentage coconut. To add to that, you get properties from both waxes depending on the ratio.

So when you blend coconut 83 and soy 464 how do you know what temperature your wax should heat up to, what temperature your fragrance should be added and when to pour?

[Laura C]

On 9/24/2017 at 1:37 PM, ShineOn said:

Has anyone had any luck wicking coconut wax? I am using coconut wax 83 from Calcandlesupply and I am having a hard time finding proper wicks. I've tested different FO's, different jar sizes. So far very FO and jar combinations  work well, the majority of them give me a tall smoking flame. Sometimes the first burn will be fine but the second burn will give me a tall flame even after trimming the wick or vice versa. I've tried eco, CD, LX, HTP and nothing. 

 

I'm having the same problems with Coco 83 wax and Easy beads coconut wax. One of the ladies on here said to mix the Easy Beads with some 444 soy wax to help with wicking. It may work with Coco 83 too. I just recently received my order of 444 wax so I hope to experiment with it this week. I've tested the wicks you mentioned and even my favorite wicks, Performa and Permier 700s have been real smoky and sooty in basically all my recent test candles using coco 83 or Easy beads. You just never know what you're going to end up with nowadays, so frustrating. 

[Jenni Wix]

With C6, a blend of coconut soy (and maybe a Palm additive?), I'm not getting any soot or smoke,tried eco and Premiere.  Any mushrooms have been small.  So, I guess my point is blending seems to be helpful.  I had good burns with CW coconut blended with 444, and and Ecos, but it set up and recongealed pretty ugly.  C6 is pretty smooth, but trouble melting down rather than out sometimes, with what I've tried.  

[Kerven]

@Ruru

When I make coco83/464 blends, I always have a temperature that I heat to (it's between 185-190F) no matter the wax. What temperature I add the FO is a bit more flexible, depending a lot on the ratio of the blend. More coconut, I'll add the FO at a higher temp (185F) and pour at a higher temp (175-185F). More soy, I'll add the FO at a slightly lower temp (170-180F) and pour cooler (approx. 150F). It works decent for me, but that's not to say it's going to work for everyone else. Why do I do that? Coconut waxes, like some paraffins (I don't work with paraffin, someone correct me if this is wrong) and palms, like to be poured hot. Soy waxes like to be poured cool. The maximum temperature I bring them to before pouring isn't as significant as the temperature to pour at, IMO. I mainly use those temperature to give me a bit of room so that I don't have to rush or the addition of FO doesn't drop the temperature below the pouring temp. Every component of significant quantity in the wax should be able to melt in the melt pool, which will reach a certain temp depending on the wax. That's the baseline that the wax should be melted to. The extra 40-50 degrees in my case is to provide wiggle room and ensure that everything in the wax that can be molten is molten before pouring. I also like slower cool downs, even if they're difficult and often result in wet spots, because I have terrible luck with fast cool downs causing sweating.

 

That's just my process. When it comes to temperatures, particularly those at which to add the FO and pour, it's very much a personal guideline. It's not going to work for everyone. I suppose it's similar to baking cookies (sugar cookie cut-outs in particular). You could follow the directions in the recipe, and the cookies may turn out perfect... or they may spread out, have scorched bottoms, puff up too much, easily break apart, set up limp, etc. Why? Maybe the dough was overworked, maybe the oven was too hot (not every oven is the same, even if they're the same model), maybe the dough wasn't chilled enough,  maybe the room was too warm, too humid, maybe the cookie sheet had a little residual greasiness, etc., etc., etc. Same thing with candles. Room temp, humidity, air pressure, drafts, uneven surfaces, rate of cooling, residue on the glass, contaminated with moisture, etc., etc., etc. Unfortunately, when blending, it requires more work to figure all of that out because there are no manufacturer guidelines for that particular blend to use as a basis. It requires a bit of testing.

 

I've since moved away from 464 and coco83. C3 has been more reliable than 464, and Candlewic's coconut-apricot wax doesn't have the smell that the coco83 had.

[Ruru]

Thanks @Kerven. I want to compare soy wax and coconut wax and see what the difference is. I want good scent throw and smooth tops.  It looks like your recommending C3 for soy wax and some people recommend the northwood for coconut wax. You think these two options would be good to test? I hate when i purchase different waxes and they dont work right. To me, 444 has been the worst so far for soy wax. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Ruru

[LittleMissSunshine]

I'm really interested in trying out coconut wax, so I'm going to comment here just so I can follow along with this conversation. Lots of great feedback already! 

 

I'm thinking I'd like to try the beads from C&S as they seem easy to use and I saw somewhere that they have no paraffin or beeswax. If I do try out the coconut wax my hope is to be able to wick it without blending anything into it. I want to keep paraffin and beeswax out for market appeal, and I'm afraid soy could dampen the hot throw that everyone seems to be touting. We shall see I guess!