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Wicking Coconut Wax


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This is normal. As the air currents change in the deeper part of the jar the flames move in response. Even the white barn candles in the small, straight sided jars dance deeper in the burn. 

 

 

Glad to read that sunflower does the trick... it was one I had suspicions about and wanted to try myself. Sunflower has a characteristic odor. Do you smell it in the final blend or burn? 20% is more than I would have thought, but I will try it. Thanks for the tip and welcome to Craft Server.

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Ok, Im going to fill you all in on a little secret. Im a big rig truck driver when not making candles for fun. Thats how I pay my bills and how my daughter is going to college.  The single biggest cus

I was never able to wick that wax to my satisfaction.  Constant supply chain issues and the need to add to that wax to make it usable all turned me off.  I use my own blend now out of readily availabl

Will do, @Kerven I have seen it on a couple of supplier websites that gb 444 and 464 don't play well with beeswax.  I just tried a blend of coconut wax, gb444 and stearic at 5%.  I am waiting a couple

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3 hours ago, TallTayl said:

This is normal. As the air currents change in the deeper part of the jar the flames move in response. Even the white barn candles in the small, straight sided jars dance deeper in the burn. 

 

 

Glad to read that sunflower does the trick... it was one I had suspicions about and wanted to try myself. Sunflower has a characteristic odor. Do you smell it in the final blend or burn? 20% is more than I would have thought, but I will try it. Thanks for the tip and welcome to Craft Server.

Hi TallTayl

 

Many thanks for your response and very happy to hear from you-(I always follow your advices:) Yes it has quite distinct smell so I have tried rice bran wax today for my new trials and guess what! it worked a lot better than sunflower wax did. The ratio for the rice bran wax is 20 % and i m sure you will like it better than sunflower wax. Sunflower has really good burning property but smell can be a tricky issue. Especially after 3-4 days you can smell the wax stronger (mixes with the fragrance). In the UK sunflower wax is very costly to buy so leaning more towards the rice bran wax at the moment. 

 

If you do some trials, please let me know how it works out for you too. I will keep you updated about  the rice bran wax mix. 

 

Thank you 

Sinem

 

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I had hoped to get to it today but work got in the way. I have 25 lbs of sunflower wax.  😳  

 

With a melt point up around 170*F it is similar to high mp paraffin or microcryatalline wax. I would think as little as 5% would go a long way toward improving coco wax. 

 

Would you believe I don't have rice bran wax? I have just about every other wax but not that one.  Please let me know how it goes :) 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Popping in because I came across something from Candles and Supplies:

Their coconut tests

 

The jars used are the 3" diameter 8oz straight sided tumblers.Poured @ 180F with ambient temperature of 72F. 2 drops dye per 6oz candle, 10% FO... Well, you'll see what they used in the link.

 

From the picture of their 1hr results, it appears to me that most of the wicks are too much for the original coconut wax and easy bead blends. After 1hr on the first burn, I'd be a little concerned if I had 1/4" to go before FMP. Looks as though the Wedo 40 wick is a decent fit for both the original coconut and easy bead blends. Wedo 37 may be suitable as well, depending on how the FO influences the burn. The IGI coconut/paraffin blend.. eh... I'm not interested in paraffin.

 

Are Wedo/RRD wicks sized backwards - larger number means smaller wick? Look at those MP's for the easy bead blend with the Wedo 40 and 37... Huge difference.

 

I think they should have tested with a single FO + dye combo, unless these are their results from those tests.

 

So, the RRD wicks... Now, I have to test those. It never ends.

 

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Interesting post @Kerven  

 

wha can we tell after a single hour burn?

 

i have three tests of the new "beads" in status jars unscented, uncolored now with eco 6. One the wax is out of the bag, unaltered. One with 10% microcrystalline was. One with 10% sunflower wax.

 

That wax can really make smoke plumes  can't it? The early burns (after only 24hrs) with eco remind me of igi4786. The flames grow tall, sputter and make a chimney of black smoke. 

 

After 3 hours the most is not even close to the edges. I could probably safely wick up a full size but will burn through to be more surE

 

when the flames are steady it is a beautiful candle. 

 

I need to do a wick tray test, but just started a clarus 3022 test, so coco beads will need to wait a bit.

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I only noticed smoke with Candlewic's coconut/apricot when the wicks were too large, small, or mushroomed. Haven't worked with 83 yet. Got a bit sidetracked trying to source rice bran , sunflower, and castor waxes.

 

I went back and burned my coconut/soy testers for the third time yesterday. It seems I burned them too early when I began testing and the soy didn't have enough time to set up. The 75/25 is doing better, none of the sizes mushroomed - not even the slightest  - this time but the flames danced and flickered a lot (they were burning very clean, but the wick wasn't trimming itself and got a bit long) and seemed cooler than before. The 50/50 testers mushroomed heavily after 2hrs. That was with ECO wicks.

 

I'm not sure about C&S's 1hr test. The unlit candles appear to have a small dip and aren't completely smooth, which may be due to lighting. The row of IGI coconut testers seem to have a swirl of some sort around the wick as though something didn't blend completely. They're also shiny. The original coconut and easy bead blends are smooth. The easy bead blend appears slightly softer than the original coconut and its surface appears more level, although, the colors, to me, seem to be ever so slightly lighter.

 

The lit candles... well, they're all over the place with melt pools. The flames appear to be a decent size, not those huge flames some of us are seeing with coconut waxes. None appear to be mushrooming in the original coconut blend. Papercore 51 appears to be mushrooming in the easy bead blend.  Wedo 37, papercore 51, and maybe CD 8 and CD 10 (tall flame on this one) are oversized in the easy bead blend; MP's are either a hair from the edge or ~1/4". In the easy bead blend, Wedo 40 has a ~1/2" to go before reaching the glass. As for the original coconut blend, Wedo 37 and Wedo 40 appear to be the best fits as both have ~1/2-1/3" until full MP after 1hr. Papercore 51 might work, but I'd suggest wicking down a size or two.

 

The Wedo 37 results are interesting. The difference in MP size between the original coconut and the easy bead blend is large. The papercore 51 has similar differences. The Wedo 40 is hard to discern with that particular color of wax and camera angle, however, the results are closer for each wax than with the other wicks... although, its performance in the IGI blend was surprising. I can't explain some of the MP's. The smaller Wedo wick size (37) creates a decent sized MP in the original blend and IGI blend, while creating too large a MP in the easy bead blend. The next size up (40) creates a decent sized MP in the original blend and the easy bead blend, but creates too large a MP in the IGI blend. Wicking up a size leads to a smaller MP in the easy bead blend??? Maybe there was an accidental swapping of wicks? The Wedo results for the original blend and the IGI blend are as expected: an increase in wick size resulted in larger MP. However, the easy bead blend is the only wax to show the opposite... the MP is reduced with an increase in wick size.

 

You've burned your unscented, uncolored candles?

My ECO 6 results for the unscented, uncolored coconut/apricot blend were positive during the 1st burn. It mushroomed a bit by the end of the 3rd hour but performed best out of the 2-8 sizes. The second burn was much different: smoking at the 2nd hour mark.

The coconut waxes are terrible smokers (not as bad as paraffin, IMO) when under or over wicked. The "sweet spot" wick sizing is very narrow.

 

C&S tested unscented, uncolored waxes as well. They used the 2/0 cotton wick, which appears to perform best in the original coconut blend. The easy bead blend didn't have a full MP after the 1st hour, but the rim of wax appeared to have warmed enough to partially gel, which is what I've seen in my unscented, uncolored coconut tests that complete a full MP by the 3rd hour.

 

An interesting observation... The rate of consumption of the IGI blend in C&S's tests looks a bit high. The MP's are noticably more shallow than the other blends. The original coconut blend doesn't appear to be as rapidly consumed as the IGI blend, and the easy bead blend seems even less than the other two... but it does appear to have the largest MP's overall of the three.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/13/2017 at 10:27 PM, kristymn said:

Dang! I have my first shipment of candle and supplies coconut wax easy beads coming in tomorrow.  I was hoping to easily just swap out for the 464 I've been using for years.  Has anyone used the easy beads?  If so, any tips?

FYI, my case of "easy beads" from C&S was marked "Accu-Pure 83" so I think they are just rebranding it on their site.  As far as wicking etc., I have just been shooting in the dark so don't have much to add.  Trying ECO wicks since that's what I have and need to wick down from what worked in Xcel.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Good evening,

 

I am planning to begin testing the Coconut 83 this weekend so I thoroughly appreciate all the information that has been shared thus far.  I purchased 3lbs from CalCandleSupply and just purchased a 5lb slab from C and S.  Based on the information shared I've gathered that you need to add a different wax to harden the coconut wax so I purchase rice bran, carnauba, and beeswax.  Carnauba being the most expensive and hardest to find.  A few questions I have are:

 

1. For those who have tested both suppliers waxes, is there a personal preference between the coconut 83 from Calcandle and Coconut/Soy blend from Candle and supplies?

2. Have you found a more economical wax to add that provides the hardness factor?

3. Any other tips to share for testing purposes?

 

Thanks for your time.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I wish I'd waited a week or more to burn these but here's the 3 hr burn result for what it's worth:

Diameter 3" 
Wax: Coconut 83 + 10% white beeswax

Wicks: RRD40,  ECO 4, PREMIER 745

(RRD37 was nixed early on; it was clearly too small.)

 

I think I went too small on all of these.  Having seen how wild the Coco wax only flames could get, and not knowing how much the 10% beeswax would change that, I started small.  As you can see from the pics, all have 1/4" or more of wax left around melt pool at the start of the 3rd hour.

 

 

Hour 3 Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZnOmLtgIwI&feature=youtu.be

 

On to the next...

 

3hr_B.jpg

3hr--A.jpg

Edited by pughaus
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1 hour ago, pughaus said:

Cracks after 2 weeks?  Oh geez.  Well, these are only 3 days old.  I'll have to keep an eye on them for a couple of weeks and see what happens next.  How much BW were you using?  

As little as 5%. 

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44 minutes ago, pughaus said:

I wish I'd waited a week or more to burn these but here's the 3 hr burn result for what it's worth:

Diameter 3" 
Wax: Coconut 83 + 10% white beeswax

Wicks: RRD40,  ECO 4, PREMIER 745

(RRD37 was nixed early on; it was clearly too small.)

 

I think I went too small on all of these.  Having seen how wild the Coco wax only flames could get, and not knowing how much the 10% beeswax would change that, I started small.  As you can see from the pics, all have 1/4" or more of wax left around melt pool at the start of the 3rd hour.

 

 

Hour 3 Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZnOmLtgIwI&feature=youtu.be

 

On to the next...

 

3hr_B.jpg

3hr--A.jpg

In 3" diameter glass jars I found eco6 was about right in "beads"-(which seem to be coconut83 not pressed into slab form).

Any wax I blended at 10% smoked and soothed really badly. The flames looked tall and scary early on so I shelved additions. also 10% additions tended to make the coco wax prone to cavities under the surface at various levels around the wick, which led to flares. The coco wax alone was pretty easy-melt and pour.

 

The coco83 " beads" are one available wax I think I prefer to not blend. It soots badly 😒,but It throws very, very well in my tests though. So it is a tradeoff. As long as that wick is trimmed before every burn it is pretty turnkey. Forgetting to trim, though, is problematic.

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15 hours ago, TallTayl said:

 

The coco83 " beads" are one available wax I think I prefer to not blend. It soots badly 😒,but It throws very, very well in my tests though. So it is a tradeoff. As long as that wick is trimmed before every burn it is pretty turnkey. Forgetting to trim, though, is problematic.

Good to know about the eco 6 as I'm still working my way through wick testing all possibilities on the Coco83 by itself, and still waiting for several sample to arrive.

 

Do you think there may be any value in testing a 2% and/or 3% beeswax blend?  I've got the wax, may as well use it ;)

 

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If you have the time and wax/money why not? It's always worth the little things learned along the way. 

 

Beeswax continues to shrink and harden over time. Make sure you give a good long long cure time. Put a few on the shelf and observe for a few months to see how they change.

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Currently testing a 3% and 4% beeswax blend but updating to add that my 10% beeswax: 90% coco83 testers, while underwicked, have not cracked 8 days after pouring. 3 have been burned to over 80% of the containers and 1 I've not burned at all since pouring.  None have cracked thus far, and I do like how the beeswax has tempered the flame and made a much calmer burn throughout the test cycle.   But now, having read about the propensity of beeswax to crack, and after hearing that TT's  5%ers cracked I wonder why mine haven't?  Oh the mysteries of wax!

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Are you getting puffs of black soot at all? What wick series are you testing 

I get minor cracks and soot in that blend...not horrible but enough for this soy girl to not love it 😂

I don't like seeing black coming off my candle at all 

Edited by moonshine
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Hi you guys.  Thanks for this thread. There doesn't seem to be a real answer to the accublend smoking and mushrooming issue, flickering etc.  I am using the status jars, 12 oz. 3".  #83.  also the small and large apothecary jars. Wow, I thought I had read enough about this wax, bought it and it's not at all what the written word had me thinking when I ordered it.  It's not easy, you can make a bad candle and I ended up mixing it 50/50 with soy. I have c-3, 464, and q210.  My issue is throw and a whole lot of issues with q210 and 464. I'm loving c-3 again, and it was my original wax. Cb adv was great but disco'd . So, here I am.  The first candles I made were straight #83 using Candle Science Brown Sugar Fig in 15 oz apothecary and 12 oz status.  I made a bunch and put RRD 29, doubled in all of them. I burned them for hours, they did not self trim but they were great for 6 hours. I blew them out, cut the wicks, lighted them up again, and they burned well.  I would like a slightly small RRD wick for this.   I just read the FDA specs and this darn wax has petroleum in it, and this is not clearly stated at candles and supplies' site. It's not really food grade, there are skin warnings. So, this is another waste of time and money. I'm starting to call this the Candle Mafia. Okay...enough of my whining.  I am using CD 10 double wicked. The wedo could be smaller so I can double wick. The 29 seems to be too hot but they are good.  Single wicking is not giving a full melt pool with the larger wicks that burn well.  Eco 2 and 4 double wicked seemed okay for some FOs with some flicker and smoke, which really isn't ideal but the overall burn was better than with the HTPs. CD is is okay. I tried LX, still not sure on that but flicker and smoke seemed an issue. 

 

I'm not sure I'll want to use the bulk apothecary 92 because the wax could be a part of that eco damage, mafia and stuff  in malaysia.  I'm really trying to avoid palm wax that is causing war on species and workers.  I thought this 83 was good, but since so much of what I was promised on this is false, I am pretty much bummed and feel scammed. The stench is real, smells a bit rancid in the container, not fresh like the soy waxes. I need to figure out how to make candles with soy.  C-3 plus a little coconut oil? This  #83 product sheet doesn't even detail the percentage of coconut wax to other waxes and I read above that this is why 92 was recommended, so you know what you're getting and what you are mixing...hot weather transport etc. When I tried to wash my hands and they didn't clean up with soap and water, the red flags started waving. I bought eye protection and gloves a couple days ago.   I wanted to use food grade, skin safe wax so I can make sexy massage wax if I want, or perfume balms.   To para phrase... ha ha.  CD 10 double wicked behaved nicely.  RRD 29 double wicked is good, Eco 2 and eco 4  doubled, weren't bad, but not perfect. Not easy to wick this wax, and I ended up doing a 50/50 blend with c-3. Heat hot and pour hot. The cooler remelt and pour testers had a lot of little wet spots, not a nice jar adhesion. The hot pour with FO were nice. The wax is pretty white , this case, unless the FO yellows. One thing I noticed is discoloration of the wax in the melt pool, but that's not a deal breaker like environmental concerns and the whole skin safe, food grade thing.  the brown sugar fig candles were burned one day after pour, one day cure time. They smelled super great. the scent cold and hot was true and yummy.  q 210 had no scent, 464 was meh in comparison and c-3 isn't bad for a soy wax when it comes to throw, but it needs cure time.  I would like to find that organic, food grade, can't make a bad candle Coconut wax.  where is that miracle wax that I thought I was buying? 

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I use the coconut/apricot blend from Candlewic. I'm not sure how helpful this will be because I use 3 wicks but the wick that works for me is the LX line. For most FOs (at 8%), i use (3) LX 12s and they work perfectly :) 

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