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Wicking Coconut Wax


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On 10/2/2017 at 9:43 AM, Kerven said:

Good work!

That blend, assuming the hot throw wasn't impacted too much, should be a decent substitution until finding a non-soy blend. That is, if you're aiming to eventually go soy-free.

Are you hot pouring? Are there wet spots? The 50/50 blend is giving me slight hang up and a lot of shrinkage after burning.

 

 

I was surprised that the hot throw was actually pretty good. I'm am getting wet spots on some candles but they're minimal. I'm currently pouring the candles at 175 degrees anything lower than that gives makes the wet spot issue worse. No Shrinakge So far. I think the more soy you add the more likely it will cause shrinking after burning. 

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Ok, Im going to fill you all in on a little secret. Im a big rig truck driver when not making candles for fun. Thats how I pay my bills and how my daughter is going to college.  The single biggest cus

I was never able to wick that wax to my satisfaction.  Constant supply chain issues and the need to add to that wax to make it usable all turned me off.  I use my own blend now out of readily availabl

Will do, @Kerven I have seen it on a couple of supplier websites that gb 444 and 464 don't play well with beeswax.  I just tried a blend of coconut wax, gb444 and stearic at 5%.  I am waiting a couple

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On 10/4/2017 at 10:48 AM, ComfortandJoy said:

@Kerven  My results with the wood wicks were not all that promising.  I used a 1/4" and 3/8" and both really struggled to stay lit.  I may do more testing with the wick booster later on, but for now I'm just trying to get the conventional wicks to work.

 

@ShineOn  At 40% the 444 is not helping to firm up the wax to my liking.  It is still fairly soft.  I have been using 415 as it is supposed to be okay with beeswax, which I think the coconut wax needs. (or stearic, which I have not tried yet)  On a side note, I bought a Voluspa candle which is coconut wax and it is very soft.  Can't believe they are putting it out there like that.  It must melt like crazy in summer.

Voluspa is not all coconut, its a combo of coconut , apricot and soy. I love Voluspa candles. They smell amazing and perform very well. Another candle that has very

soft wax, almost looks like firm vaseline is Thymes candles. As a matter of fact I bought the mulled cider one this afternoon. They smell amazing and the cider 

candles are in copper mugs :) The Thymes candles are made of all paraffin according to the label. Thymes Frasier Fir is my favorite. So only 415 can be mixed

with beeswax ? Have you found the sweet spot for beeswax - soy ? So I just checked on the wax they don't mention all the waxes, just coconut, apricot and they

say other natural waxes , so who knows lol !

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30 minutes ago, Moonstar said:

Voluspa is not all coconut, its a combo of coconut , apricot and soy. I love Voluspa candles. They smell amazing and perform very well. Another candle that has very

soft wax, almost looks like firm vaseline is Thymes candles. As a matter of fact I bought the mulled cider one this afternoon. They smell amazing and the cider 

candles are in copper mugs :) The Thymes candles are made of all paraffin according to the label. Thymes Frasier Fir is my favorite. So only 415 can be mixed

with beeswax ? Have you found the sweet spot for beeswax - soy ? So I just checked on the wax they don't mention all the waxes, just coconut, apricot and they

say other natural waxes , so who knows lol !

 

I have not yet found the right balance yet unfortunately. I ditched the beeswax for now and I'm currently doing coconut wax and soy blends at 50:50 and 55:45 coconut to soy.  I'm using gb 444

 

Yes, the voluspa candles are lovely! Mine burns well and has a nice cold and hot throw.  I just wonder how the big guys can ship these soft candles in summer heat.

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53 minutes ago, ComfortandJoy said:

 

I have not yet found the right balance yet unfortunately. I ditched the beeswax for now and I'm currently doing coconut wax and soy blends at 50:50 and 55:45 coconut to soy.  I'm using gb 444

 

Yes, the voluspa candles are lovely! Mine burns well and has a nice cold and hot throw.  I just wonder how the big guys can ship these soft candles in summer heat.

I stopped trying to figure things like that out awhile back ago because honestly, who really knows what they add. But Im like you, always wondering how in the heck they do it 

They have the money and resources to come up with all of these fabulous products. I was at Costco the other day and they sell a three pack of 8 oz jars for an unbelievable

price and I have to say they smell incredable and burn beautifully. I wish I could remember the brand, I'll have to look next time I go. The label says Organic soy candles with

essential oils lol ! The funny thing is consumers actually believe that they are organic and made with all EO. I guess since they infuse with EO maybe they can state that IDK ??

Most people I know fullybelieve everything that they're told. I think "organic" is loosely and so over used IMO. Ive never used 444, only 464 and 415. Maybe I should try it :) 

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21 hours ago, Moonstar said:

I stopped trying to figure things like that out awhile back ago because honestly, who really knows what they add. But Im like you, always wondering how in the heck they do it 

They have the money and resources to come up with all of these fabulous products. I was at Costco the other day and they sell a three pack of 8 oz jars for an unbelievable

price and I have to say they smell incredable and burn beautifully. I wish I could remember the brand, I'll have to look next time I go. The label says Organic soy candles with

essential oils lol ! The funny thing is consumers actually believe that they are organic and made with all EO. I guess since they infuse with EO maybe they can state that IDK ??

Most people I know fullybelieve everything that they're told. I think "organic" is loosely and so over used IMO. Ive never used 444, only 464 and 415. Maybe I should try it :) 

 

I know! So frustrating to be working so hard to produce a good product with integrity while companies say whatever they want to make the sale.  An uneducated consumer is their best customer :rolleyes:

 

The 444 by itself frosts like crazy but the coconut wax seems to make it behave.  It does produce a nice scent throw.  I like the 464 but I'm trying to add firmness to the soft coconut wax while increasing viscosity.

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@ShineOnI'm having issues with wet spots as well. The coconut wax may be more suited to hot pouring around 180F. Commercial production often uses a hot pour with fans from the bottom and sides for a quick cool down. That might be worth trying - a quick cool down. I've been using felt sleeves I made for insulating soy candles as they cool, so that may be why I'm seeing a few little spots the day after - slower cooling. Well, that, and I'm using thick jars that aren't preheated, which causes the wax to instantly solidify on contact. Although, my testers, which have been sitting in a room that can frequently change five degrees in either direction, now have massive wet spots. They seem to be sensitive to changes in room temperatures, moreso than pure soy candles. For a more predictable wax that doesn't frost, isn't paraffin, has a good hot throw, doesn't wash out colors, and is easier to wick... I think I can overlook the wet spots. Now, to find a reasonably affordable supplier of frosted or darkly colored jars.

 

@ComfortandJoyI wish I could remember where but I did read something a while back (a year or two) about the GB soys not blending well with beeswax. A coconut/beeswax blend sounds tempting... the cost of a coconut/beeswax candle doesn't. Stearyl alcohol and coconut wax might work, but I imagine that's going to be more costly than a stearic acid blend. If you do try a coconut and stearic blend, please post about it! I'm very curious to read how that turns out.

 

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55 minutes ago, redquilt said:

I've been following this thread and wondered if the Coconut wax suppliers list a melt point?

They do but I can't recall off-hand what it is. I believe it has a low melt point. Lower than soy I think ?

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5 hours ago, Kerven said:

@ShineOn

 

@ComfortandJoyI wish I could remember where but I did read something a while back (a year or two) about the GB soys not blending well with beeswax. A coconut/beeswax blend sounds tempting... the cost of a coconut/beeswax candle doesn't. Stearyl alcohol and coconut wax might work, but I imagine that's going to be more costly than a stearic acid blend. If you do try a coconut and stearic blend, please post about it! I'm very curious to read how that turns out.

 

 

Will do, @Kerven I have seen it on a couple of supplier websites that gb 444 and 464 don't play well with beeswax.  I just tried a blend of coconut wax, gb444 and stearic at 5%.  I am waiting a couple more days to test.  I do feel that coconut wax needs to be blended with a more viscous wax like soy to keep the wicks from slumping, which is what I have encountered with several different wick types in coconut wax. (ECO, RRD, CD, HTP)

 

@Moonstar - I've seen coconut wax melt points listed at ~ 121-126, which is the same as gb444.  However, straight coconut wax is a lot thinner than the gb444, regardless of stated melt point.  It's a lot different.

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On 10/11/2017 at 1:58 PM, ComfortandJoy said:

 

I have not yet found the right balance yet unfortunately. I ditched the beeswax for now and I'm currently doing coconut wax and soy blends at 50:50 and 55:45 coconut to soy.  I'm using gb 444

 

Yes, the voluspa candles are lovely! Mine burns well and has a nice cold and hot throw.  I just wonder how the big guys can ship these soft candles in summer heat.

 

The shipping of Voluspa candles has me stumped, it's very surprising that they don't melt. I wonder if they use any additives.

 

Have you had a chance to test your burn with 5% of stearic?

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On 10/13/2017 at 7:48 AM, Kerven said:

@ShineOnI'm having issues with wet spots as well. The coconut wax may be more suited to hot pouring around 180F. Commercial production often uses a hot pour with fans from the bottom and sides for a quick cool down. That might be worth trying - a quick cool down. I've been using felt sleeves I made for insulating soy candles as they cool, so that may be why I'm seeing a few little spots the day after - slower cooling. Well, that, and I'm using thick jars that aren't preheated, which causes the wax to instantly solidify on contact. Although, my testers, which have been sitting in a room that can frequently change five degrees in either direction, now have massive wet spots. They seem to be sensitive to changes in room temperatures, moreso than pure soy candles. For a more predictable wax that doesn't frost, isn't paraffin, has a good hot throw, doesn't wash out colors, and is easier to wick... I think I can overlook the wet spots. Now, to find a reasonably affordable supplier of frosted or darkly colored jars.

 

@ComfortandJoyI wish I could remember where but I did read something a while back (a year or two) about the GB soys not blending well with beeswax. A coconut/beeswax blend sounds tempting... the cost of a coconut/beeswax candle doesn't. Stearyl alcohol and coconut wax might work, but I imagine that's going to be more costly than a stearic acid blend. If you do try a coconut and stearic blend, please post about it! I'm very curious to read how that turns out.

 

 

Have you tried warming the jars? When I was using CB Advanced  I did get a lot of wet spots, but warming the jars made a huge difference. I would say only 10% of candles ended up developing wet spots. 

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10 hours ago, ShineOn said:

 

The shipping of Voluspa candles has me stumped, it's very surprising that they don't melt. I wonder if they use any additives.

 

Have you had a chance to test your burn with 5% of stearic?

 

Hi @ShineOn I did test burn a  45% coconut wax/50% gb 444/5% stearic blend yesterday after a 5 day cure.  As it burned, I noticed a crack deep in the melt pool.  I'm wondering if it was the stearic. (I heated wax to 180, poured at 135 and 130 between two test candles)  My wick slumped, but that could have been because of the crack.  Back to the drawing board...

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 Does the the firmness or viscosity of wax correspond to melt pt?   With fats viscosity does not always correspond.  For example, my lard is much softer in texture than my coconut oil, but the coconut oil has a lower melting point. 

 

So the problem with the softness of the coconut wax has to do with fear of it melting in warmer temps and/or a problem with the wicks "slumping" ?

What exactly is "slumping"?  And the main problem people are having as far as wicking coconut wax is too large of a flame?   

 

 

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10 minutes ago, redquilt said:

 Does the the firmness or viscosity of wax correspond to melt pt?   With fats viscosity does not always correspond.  For example, my lard is much softer in texture than my coconut oil, but the coconut oil has a lower melting point. 

 

So the problem with the softness of the coconut wax has to do with fear of it melting in warmer temps and/or a problem with the wicks "slumping" ?

What exactly is "slumping"?  And the main problem people are having as far as wicking coconut wax is too large of a flame?   

 

 

 Pantry fats observation is spot on. Compare margarine to butter to cocoa butter, etc. melt point has nothing to do with firmness. 

 

Wick Slumping is when the wax coating on the wick melts off, causing it to sag in the melt pool. When a wick sags it can look like the flame is sniffing out, as if it is under wicked. Pulling on thenwick shows how much wick has sunken into the melt pool. 

 

Yes, the low melt point of the coconut wax makes it challenging to ship during hot summer months. You don't want it to melt and mak a mess during shipment. Even slight melting can cause the wax to shift in the container, pulling wicks out of alignment.

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2 minutes ago, ComfortandJoy said:

 

I used a CD 6 and RRD 47

in the glass jar? RRD47 is really big in my waxes in the 8 oz tins. I have some smaller if you want me to put them into the mail. LX might be a good choice on the coconut wax too. Or HTP. Both of those are flat cotton core versus the round cotton of RRD.

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7 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

in the glass jar? RRD47 is really big in my waxes in the 8 oz tins. I have some smaller if you want me to put them into the mail. LX might be a good choice on the coconut wax too. Or HTP. Both of those are flat cotton core versus the round cotton of RRD.

 

@TallTayl Thanks!  Yes, in the glass jar. I have smaller RRD wicks.  I tried the LX wicks.  They mushroomed badly, even in my fragrance free testers.  I have HTP wicks as well.  I've been having decent results with the RRD wicks.  I just wicked a bit higher this time around since I added the stearic and went with 50% gb 444.

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@ShineOn Preheating is too much of a hassle for me. I'd have to either heat jars one-by-one with a heat gun while my wax cools too much or try carrying a hot tray of jars from the kitchen to my work area... without shattering anything. Come to think of it, I'm not certain my oven goes below 170F. I guess I could cut it off and then put the glass in but that would slow my process down quite a bit.

 

Could it be possible that pouring at a lower temperature may have caused the coconut and stearic to cool too fast around the wick and crack internally?

 

Anyone else notice that Candlewic's coconut/apricot blend is sold out? I had to order coconut83 from California Candle Supply.

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5 hours ago, TallTayl said:

 Wick Slumping is when the wax coating on the wick melts off, causing it to sag in the melt pool. When a wick sags it can look like the flame is sniffing out, as if it is under wicked. Pulling on thenwick shows how much wick has sunken into the melt pool. 

 

 

So what is causing the slumping in the coconut wax?   Is it pouring too hot and melting the coating on the wick causing it?  Is the melt pool of a burning candle getting too hot and melting the coating on the candle?  

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4 minutes ago, redquilt said:

 

So what is causing the slumping in the coconut wax?   Is it pouring too hot and melting the coating on the wick causing it?  Is the melt pool of a burning candle getting too hot and melting the coating on the candle?  

Could be either or both. 

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5 hours ago, Kerven said:

@ShineOn Preheating is too much of a hassle for me. I'd have to either heat jars one-by-one with a heat gun while my wax cools too much or try carrying a hot tray of jars from the kitchen to my work area... without shattering anything. Come to think of it, I'm not certain my oven goes below 170F. I guess I could cut it off and then put the glass in but that would slow my process down quite a bit.

 

Could it be possible that pouring at a lower temperature may have caused the coconut and stearic to cool too fast around the wick and crack internally?

 

Anyone else notice that Candlewic's coconut/apricot blend is sold out? I had to order coconut83 from California Candle Supply.

 

@Kerven That is certainly possible. 

 

I believe NorthWood Candle Supply sells coconut 83 wax and they offer free shipping on certain quantities.

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Ok, Im going to fill you all in on a little secret. Im a big rig truck driver when not making candles for fun. Thats how I pay my bills and how my daughter is going to college.  The single biggest customer for my company for the longest time was Yankee Candle. We had the sole contract for all of North America to haul their candles to retail stores, and then lump inside. This was the case up until a few years ago when the candle industry moved away from dry van shipping. (In laymans terms, thats just a regular everyday trailer) Why they did you ask? Because too many of their candles would melt en route and damage claims were through the roof in warmer climates.  So, the big candle companies set into motion a new plan and tactic of shipping the candles cross country.  From that point on, most candles, including ALL of Yankee Candles products, are now shipped via reefer trailer. Reefer trailers are "refridgerated" trailers that can maintain sub-zero temps or whatever temp the shipper requests.  Thats the secret to how candles of all viscosity, whether soft or firm, are shipped and do not melt.

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