Wicking Coconut Wax

[ComfortandJoy]

8 minutes ago, ShineOn said:

How's the 25% of 444 working? 

 

I will be test burning a couple of  batches at the end of the week and will post results.

 

Nice smooth tops on single pour.

[ComfortandJoy]

On 9/25/2017 at 10:37 PM, ShineOn said:

 

Even though the flames are quite large the wax still burns slowly, a lot slower than soy wax. It also gives an amazing scent throw and it looks nicer. That's why I'm really trying to work with coconut wax and spending a lot of time + money testing. I think that once I get a good blend and appropriate wicks it'll be worth it. 

 

I agree, ShineOn!  I'll be testing cdn wicks next.  I really like the throw I get with just 5% beeswax added for firmness.  I just think it needs to be blended with a little extra soy for more body.

[ComfortandJoy]

9 hours ago, pcbrook said:

Have you been dying your coconut candles?  If so, what kind of dye do you use?

 

I don't dye my candles.

[Kerven]

@ShineOn Where 100% coconut/apricot was a bit too much for the smallest ECO size I could get, the 75/25 blend gave me a decent burn with the same size (ECO 2). Upping the soy to a 50/50 blend allowed me to move up to ECO 4 and 6 for a good burn. I used different scents for each blend so I can't make a comparison on hot throw. The cold throw in the 50/50 blend with CS Pumpkin Caramel Crunch had me wondering if I needed to light a candle at all.

The 70/30 and 60/40 are good starting points. I think you'll have better results with those. Keep us updated.

 

@Moonstar For me, Candlewic's coconut/apricot blend on its own was rapidly consumed in comparison to 464. I don't know if it was due to the styles of wick used (CD and ECO) or if it was a property of the wax. The wicks were burning very hot. It seems the other coconut waxes are more slowly consumed.

Those ribbon wicks do look cool. I think Northwood suggests using those with their coconut wax. I'd have to see one in action before giving them a try. The thought of a larger, wider flame in coconut wax makes me a little anxious.

That pillar/tart blend is a bit pricey... a little too pricey for my tarts.

 

@pcbrookI've been using Candle Science's liquid dyes to color mine. The coconut/apricot blend is quite white on its own, slightly translucent, and doesn't frost so it holds colors well. If I'm working with red dye, I know I'm not as likely to end up with pink as I would with soy.

 

Speaking of palm wax, I haven't tried that yet. I did soy and palm (sparkle light), and that was... frustrating. Apparently, I needed to poke relief holes. Hot throw was amazing, however. Haven't touched it since. Anyone have any success blending the two?

[pcbrook]

Thank you Kerven!  I ordered a few pounds from Northwood just to play with it but I only have liquid dyes.  I was hoping I could use the liquid dyes.  But then again maybe no dye would be better.  We will see how it goes.  Thanks again!

Edited September 27, 2017 by pcbrook

[Moonstar]

48 minutes ago, Kerven said:

@ShineOn Where 100% coconut/apricot was a bit too much for the smallest ECO size I could get, the 75/25 blend gave me a decent burn with the same size (ECO 2). Upping the soy to a 50/50 blend allowed me to move up to ECO 4 and 6 for a good burn. I used different scents for each blend so I can't make a comparison on hot throw. The cold throw in the 50/50 blend with CS Pumpkin Caramel Crunch had me wondering if I needed to light a candle at all.

The 70/30 and 60/40 are good starting points. I think you'll have better results with those. Keep us updated.

 

@Moonstar For me, Candlewic's coconut/apricot blend on its own was rapidly consumed in comparison to 464. I don't know if it was due to the styles of wick used (CD and ECO) or if it was a property of the wax. The wicks were burning very hot. It seems the other coconut waxes are more slowly consumed.

Those ribbon wicks do look cool. I think Northwood suggests using those with their coconut wax. I'd have to see one in action before giving them a try. The thought of a larger, wider flame in coconut wax makes me a little anxious.

That pillar/tart blend is a bit pricey... a little too pricey for my tarts.

 

@pcbrookI've been using Candle Science's liquid dyes to color mine. The coconut/apricot blend is quite white on its own, slightly translucent, and doesn't frost so it holds colors well. If I'm working with red dye, I know I'm not as likely to end up with pink as I would with soy.

 

Speaking of palm wax, I haven't tried that yet. I did soy and palm (sparkle light), and that was... frustrating. Apparently, I needed to poke relief holes. Hot throw was amazing, however. Haven't touched it since. Anyone have any success blending the two?

What were your ratios of soy to 

palm . Assuming that you used a higher amount of palm on your earlier tests, maybe lowering the 

amount. I've bought a few candles 

out of curiosity that were a blend 

of  soy and palm and they were amazing. So all palm wax needs 

releif holes or just glass glow ? 

I think I'll get a sample bag  of coconut from Northwood and add some soy or beeswax and see what I think. Rrrr I wish I never saw this thread lol 😂 

[ShineOn]

3 hours ago, Kerven said:

@ShineOn Where 100% coconut/apricot was a bit too much for the smallest ECO size I could get, the 75/25 blend gave me a decent burn with the same size (ECO 2). Upping the soy to a 50/50 blend allowed me to move up to ECO 4 and 6 for a good burn. I used different scents for each blend so I can't make a comparison on hot throw. The cold throw in the 50/50 blend with CS Pumpkin Caramel Crunch had me wondering if I needed to light a candle at all.

The 70/30 and 60/40 are good starting points. I think you'll have better results with those. Keep us updated.

 

@Moonstar For me, Candlewic's coconut/apricot blend on its own was rapidly consumed in comparison to 464. I don't know if it was due to the styles of wick used (CD and ECO) or if it was a property of the wax. The wicks were burning very hot. It seems the other coconut waxes are more slowly consumed.

Those ribbon wicks do look cool. I think Northwood suggests using those with their coconut wax. I'd have to see one in action before giving them a try. The thought of a larger, wider flame in coconut wax makes me a little anxious.

That pillar/tart blend is a bit pricey... a little too pricey for my tarts.

 

@pcbrookI've been using Candle Science's liquid dyes to color mine. The coconut/apricot blend is quite white on its own, slightly translucent, and doesn't frost so it holds colors well. If I'm working with red dye, I know I'm not as likely to end up with pink as I would with soy.

 

Speaking of palm wax, I haven't tried that yet. I did soy and palm (sparkle light), and that was... frustrating. Apparently, I needed to poke relief holes. Hot throw was amazing, however. Haven't touched it since. Anyone have any success blending the two?

 

Whats the diameter of your jars? Another one of my problems with this wax is that I won't achieve a full melt pool after a 3-4 hours. I made a few test batches with higher amount of soy this morning and I will be testing them soon.

[Kerven]

@MoonstarThe sparkle light from Peak was a pain on its own. Even with holes poked and topping off, I still got huge cavernous spots in the center of the candle. Probably due to my inexperience with palm.

I wasn't able to find my notes for the testing but I did find one partially burned candle leftover. The label says 80/20, soy/palm, 6% FO, CS lavender dye chip, and ECO 10. There were small air pockets around the melt pool, so I lit it again to see what would happen. More air pockets, some tunneling, and the hang up from before wouldn't melt. Now, I know why I saved it: a reminder to not do that again. If I do give it another try, I'd use a 90/10 blend and something other than sparkle light palm.

 

@ShineOnThe jars I used for the coconut/soy testing were 2.5".

 

(I'm having a newbie moment.)

I haven't tried a larger jar yet, but the idea makes me curious. I haven't thought of this before. If the larger sizes of wicks are producing undesirable flames, does it matter what size the jar is? If an ECO 2 in a 2.5" jar produces an ideal flame, yet larger sizes in the same jar do not, then wouldn't using a larger size in a larger jar produce undesirable flames... especially if the problems noted are happening before a complete melt pool? Wouldn't that be a quality of the wax - that only a particular wick works in it - and not so much the size of the jar? Doesn't the size of the jar only matter when considering melt pool formation?

I've gone and confused myself again.

I think I'm going to try a larger jar tomorrow to see what happens. I'm hoping I don't have to trial a variety of wick styles again...

 

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Kerven

[ComfortandJoy]

On 9/25/2017 at 2:39 PM, Kerven said:

 

Northwood's high percentage of coconut might explain the mushrooming. I had both these issues - large flame, smoke/mushrooming - with Candlewic's coconut/apricot blend. However, I did manage to "tame" it by mixing with soy. I've found that, as the percentage of soy increases, coconut/soy blends are much easier to wick in comparison to straight coconut. That may be due to my familiarity with working with soy. Nevertheless, I'm testing 75/25 and 50/50 blends of my own creation with ECO wicks and the results are very promising.

 

I'd suggest blending the coconut wax with soy. Since coconut 83 already has a bit of soy in it, I'd start with a 60/40 blend, coconut to soy. The soy you use may have an impact. I used 464 with my blends. Personally, I think blending spares the headache of trying to wick a high percentage coconut. To add to that, you get properties from both waxes depending on the ratio.

 

I am finding the same results, @Kerven!  And, the coconut wax seems to tame the mottled top problems with soy.  Have you found that blending the coconut with 40% and higher soy cuts the hot throw?  I was thinking of trying coconut wax/soy/beeswax in a blend, but I worry it will kill the great hot throw from coconut wax alone.

Edited September 28, 2017 by ComfortandJoy

[Kerven]

I wouldn't say that it cuts the hot throw. I wasn't too crazy about the hot throw of this coconut/apricot blend after a bit of testing, although, I may not have cured the candles long enough. I usually give a 3 day cure when testing with this wax. Some FO's seemed weak and others were great. I guess, like soy, some FO's are going to work and others aren't. The 50/50 blend, for me, had a good cold throw and good hot throw after a three day cure at 8% FO. Two 2.5" jars fully scented a roughly 144sqft room. Maybe a single candle to fully scent the room if I give them a two week cure. I found that blending soy with coconut helps cut down on that waxy lit candle smell (I'm not fond of melted soy's scent) of full soy candles, and the scents seem "cleaner" and more robust.

 

Does beeswax do well with fragrance throw?

 

I'm glad to be rid of those rough tops after burning soy candles. Coconut also seems to be suited for hot pouring as well, so no having to wait until it cools to a certain temperature or adjusting pour temps around the weather. More reasons to switch from soy.

[ShineOn]

18 hours ago, Kerven said:

@MoonstarThe sparkle light from Peak was a pain on its own. Even with holes poked and topping off, I still got huge cavernous spots in the center of the candle. Probably due to my inexperience with palm.

I wasn't able to find my notes for the testing but I did find one partially burned candle leftover. The label says 80/20, soy/palm, 6% FO, CS lavender dye chip, and ECO 10. There were small air pockets around the melt pool, so I lit it again to see what would happen. More air pockets, some tunneling, and the hang up from before wouldn't melt. Now, I know why I saved it: a reminder to not do that again. If I do give it another try, I'd use a 90/10 blend and something other than sparkle light palm.

 

@ShineOnThe jars I used for the coconut/soy testing were 2.5".

 

(I'm having a newbie moment.)

I haven't tried a larger jar yet, but the idea makes me curious. I haven't thought of this before. If the larger sizes of wicks are producing undesirable flames, does it matter what size the jar is? If an ECO 2 in a 2.5" jar produces an ideal flame, yet larger sizes in the same jar do not, then wouldn't using a larger size in a larger jar produce undesirable flames... especially if the problems noted are happening before a complete melt pool? Wouldn't that be a quality of the wax - that only a particular wick works in it - and not so much the size of the jar? Doesn't the size of the jar only matter when considering melt pool formation?

I've gone and confused myself again.

I think I'm going to try a larger jar tomorrow to see what happens. I'm hoping I don't have to trial a variety of wick styles again...

 

 

Great point Kerven! If the candle wick is producing a large flame it's most likely the wax quality since the wick itself shouldn't change it's own burning quality in different jars, because it should only affect the melt pool size. I didn't think of this before!

 

Maybe the wax from California Candle Supply's is just not good on its own, not is it good when you only add a small amount of soy. Even though they told me their wax should work without blending, I'm finding that impossible. 

[ShineOn]

Okay so update. When mixing the coconut wax with 40% of soy 464 it burns beautifully. No tall flames, no mushrooming, just an overall nice clean burn! 

Edited October 1, 2017 by ShineOn

[Moonstar]

14 hours ago, ShineOn said:

Okay so update. When mixing the coconut wax with 40% of soy 464 it burns beautifully. No tall flames, no mushrooming, just an overall nice clean burn! 

Thanks for the update , this is 

encouraging! Any issues with HT 

at 40% Refresh my memory , you purchased your coconut wax blend at C & S ??? Your using CD wicks ?

thanks again for the update !

Very helpful 👍🏻

 

[Kerven]

Good work!

That blend, assuming the hot throw wasn't impacted too much, should be a decent substitution until finding a non-soy blend. That is, if you're aiming to eventually go soy-free.

Are you hot pouring? Are there wet spots? The 50/50 blend is giving me slight hang up and a lot of shrinkage after burning.

 

[olives]

I've been following this thread with great interest, since I'm interested in moving to a soy-coconut wax blend candle myself. 

 

I am about to start testing the coconut container blend wax from Candles & Supplies. I was told by C&S that although the coconut to soy ratio in that blend is proprietary, they suspected that it was more coconut than soy. I am going to blend this with 464 at different ratios to test.

 

I'm very curious about wet spots, as well as frosting issues - both of which I have severely with 464, especially as the candle ages (and by "ages", I mean only after a couple of months!) I sell my candles mostly via wholesale, and these are the two top complaints I get from my accounts...and one reason I'm experimenting with a coconut wax blend.

[ComfortandJoy]

On 9/30/2017 at 10:41 PM, ShineOn said:

Okay so update. When mixing the coconut wax with 40% of soy 464 it burns beautifully. No tall flames, no mushrooming, just an overall nice clean burn! 

Yes! The soy and coconut when blended tend to tame each other's problems.

 

I loved the overall look and hot throw from the coconut wax/464 blend.  My only concern was that it was still kind of soft when I started adding fo after testing it without.  Have you found that to be the case?  

 

I wanted to add some beeswax to the blend but I've read that both 464 and 444 don't blend well with beeswax.  I'm currently testing coconut/soy 415/beeswax.  My favorite was the 464/coconut.

[Moonstar]

4 hours ago, ComfortandJoy said:

Yes! The soy and coconut when blended tend to tame each other's problems.

 

I loved the overall look and hot throw from the coconut wax/464 blend.  My only concern was that it was still kind of soft when I started adding fo after testing it without.  Have you found that to be the case?  

 

I wanted to add some beeswax to the blend but I've read that both 464 and 444 don't blend well with beeswax.  I'm currently testing coconut/soy 415/beeswax.  My favorite was the 464/coconut.

Im going to order some white beeswax and add to some 464 ( but no coconut wax) where did you read that 464 and 444 don't blend well with beeswax ? Another soy Im going 

to test is the container soy from American Soy. Ive seen lots of soy & beeswax candles so Im sure it can be done. I just don't if Im interested in trying endless combinations.

Im hoping TT chimes in, she's very knowledgble and should know the answer to the soy/beeswax question.Question, which FO's have you been testing so far ?

 

[TallTayl]

I have been testing coconut with white beeswax in line blends in 8oz tins. Have only made it through the first two burns, but the blend is promising. ratios in testing include 100% coconut, coconut:bw in 90:10, 80:20, 70:30 and 60:40.

 

using rrd47 wicks. When trimmed these all burn wonderfully, and throw well. Thinking of wicking the next st down to rrd40 because I KNOW people won't be diligent about wick trimming. 

 

I have also also read that 464 does not play well with beeswax. It was on a tech pub a long while ago. I'd still give it a try though. I did try some in 464 when I was first starting out and did not see any difference. 464 had too many other issues so I ditched it. I have some in the shop, but don't really want to go back to it.

[Kerven]

Is the white beeswax synthetic? I've been thinking about ordering from CS, but the reviews claiming it has a manufactured scent make me wonder if it's faux beeswax. I was under the impression that the white wax is processed to have the color and natural scent removed. The other day I discovered synthetic beeswax (in both yellow and white forms) while searching for an apricot wax manufacturer. Now, I'm a bit cautious about beeswax in general.

 

Any particular suppliers known to sell actual beeswax?

[TallTayl]

 White beeswax can be refined using several methods. I get mine either from Soapers Choice or bulk apothecary. Both are beeswax performing exactly is beeswax should.

 

Refined burns much more easily and colors more easily the natural beeswax.

 

Now natural beeswax can range from a pale yellow to a deep turmeric yellow depending on where it's from. They're not all the same. They can vary from batch to batch. 

[ComfortandJoy]

7 hours ago, Moonstar said:

Im going to order some white beeswax and add to some 464 ( but no coconut wax) where did you read that 464 and 444 don't blend well with beeswax ? Another soy Im going 

to test is the container soy from American Soy. Ive seen lots of soy & beeswax candles so Im sure it can be done. I just don't if Im interested in trying endless combinations.

Im hoping TT chimes in, she's very knowledgble and should know the answer to the soy/beeswax question.Question, which FO's have you been testing so far ?

 

@Moonstar, I read it on one of the sites that sell the GB waxes, and I've also heard it from TallTayl.   

 

I've been testing the fall/holiday scents from CS - Apple Harvest, White Birch, Fraser Fir.

Edited October 3, 2017 by ComfortandJoy

[Clear Black]

On 10/3/2017 at 9:32 AM, TallTayl said:

I have been testing coconut with white beeswax in line blends in 8oz tins. Have only made it through the first two burns, but the blend is promising. ratios in testing include 100% coconut, coconut:bw in 90:10, 80:20, 70:30 and 60:40.

 

using rrd47 wicks. When trimmed these all burn wonderfully, and throw well. Thinking of wicking the next st down to rrd40 because I KNOW people won't be diligent about wick trimming. 

 

So do you think this is the direction you will be going to stear away from soy TT? How would you deal with the extra cost of the coconut and bw since they are both generally more expensive than soy alone. 

 

Im very interested in which ratio above is working out the best. Any chance you could keep us posted as the burns go? Possibly make your own thread so we can keep track of that progress? Im standing right next to you in regards of being done with soy. I just got 500lbs of 444 in last week and the tests are all over the map as compared to last summers batch I ordered. I cant continue to trust soy if it will be like this

[TallTayl]

I feel for your testing challenges. 

 

Overall the blend of coconut and beeswax is not much more spendy than the original soy blend. Weird, but the local shipping of these ingredients levels the costs off. 

 

It is very early for my tests, but so far promising. I will keep you posted. 

[ComfortandJoy]

@Kerven  My results with the wood wicks were not all that promising.  I used a 1/4" and 3/8" and both really struggled to stay lit.  I may do more testing with the wick booster later on, but for now I'm just trying to get the conventional wicks to work.

 

@ShineOn  At 40% the 444 is not helping to firm up the wax to my liking.  It is still fairly soft.  I have been using 415 as it is supposed to be okay with beeswax, which I think the coconut wax needs. (or stearic, which I have not tried yet)  On a side note, I bought a Voluspa candle which is coconut wax and it is very soft.  Can't believe they are putting it out there like that.  It must melt like crazy in summer.

[ShineOn]

On 10/1/2017 at 9:47 AM, Moonstar said:

Thanks for the update , this is 

encouraging! Any issues with HT 

at 40% Refresh my memory , you purchased your coconut wax blend at C & S ??? Your using CD wicks ?

thanks again for the update !

Very helpful 👍🏻

 

HT and CT are perfect with this blend. I purchased the wax at Cal candle supply. CD wicks did not work for me, Eco's worked well.