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ChristinaD

Soy VS Para Soy Blend for cold and hot throw

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*I apologize in advance because this is going to be a REALLY long post! But I want to give ya’ll ALL the details so you can give the best advice =)  ~ I looked around on the page yesterday and today and couldn’t see anywhere that this had been addressed.

 

I’m Still in R&D for my candles and had a few (a bunch) of questions regarding GW 464 VS Problend 600

 

I started with 464 and had AMAZING CT but very little HT, my goal is for a stronger throw, so I have experimented with all different temps for when to add FO and when to pour. 

My 464 candles had EXCELLENT CT no matter what temp, but HT was always lacking. The candles have nice smooth tops, once I started warming the jars I got rid of most frosting and glass adhesion issues. 

 

But the HT issue is my biggest concern.  I have used FO’s from Lonestar and Natures Garden, the ones I got from NG are diff stronger in my 464, and I have noticed that adding FO and pouring at the coldest possible temp has seemed to make my HT a little better, but still not nearly where I want it to be.

 I started with putting FO in at 165, and then got all the way down to putting FO in at 140. I stir for 2-3 minutes and then immediately pour into my jars, I’m guessing wax is probably 130-120’s by the time I pour, as I stopped measuring temps again before pouring (the thermometer I was using took too long to read-I have a new one now, lol) 

I have been curing my 464 candles for 1-2 weeks before testing.

 

 I am also concerned with a lot of other issues such as melting when shipping during the summer, as I plan to sell online and do not want to have to shut my business down during the summer. (I’ve seen people say they do that!) Some people seem to think this is a HUGE problem, while others seem to think that is is a non-issue… So I’m not sure how much of an issue this will be.  

 

 Also I was wanting to move my operation down into the basement instead of my kitchen, as I have 2,000 sq ft of mostly unused space down there! But I read that can cause issues with soy wax, due to how much cooler the basement is than the rest of the house… Lots of other little things caused me to think that maybe I should try a para soy, as I want to keep the look and cooler burn of soy.

I love the 464 but since I don’t have unlimited resources I can’t continue to waste wax & FO so I wanted to if anyone had any suggestions about this. Any suggestions for success with the 464 wax?? Or if anyone who has switched to a Para Soy blend from soy OR just loves Para soy could weigh in?

 

FO:
I am using 1oz (by weight) of FO to 1 pound of wax, I also tried 2 oz to 1 pound with no change in HT.

JARS:  Straight sided 9 oz (2.58 diameter)
https://www.lonestarcandlesupply.com/straight-sided-round-jar-9oz.html
WICKS:  ECO 10
https://www.lonestarcandlesupply.com/eco-10-6-wick.html

 

Oddly when making a sample 2oz tin with the 464 and using CD 5 wicks, my HT seems to be higher?? After less than a week of cure time. So now I’m wondering if it has anything to do with my wicks? This is so confusing! haha …


 I also tested it in a very small room, due to the small size of the candle, but started testing all my candles in there now, as my kitchen area is super open.

 I even purchased some candles from a store that were soy blend to compare (originally thought I was purchasing 100% soy as the packaging was misleading) 

 

PARASOY:

So this week I got 11 pounds of the Problend 600 to start testing, my first candle is SO BEAUTIFUL and SO smooth! I thought the soy was pretty, but this one looks even better. HOWEVER, it had BARELY any CT!!!  I just tested it after 48 hours and it also has a SUPER light HT!

 

I then tested it in 2 different small rooms against my 464 (in a 9oz jar version of the candle) in the same scent and its actually a LIGHTER scent than the 464!!! =( I’m super disappointed and I don’t want to go through the whole block before getting advice, so I stopped after my first candle to ask some questions.

 

Does para soy need the paraffin cure time or 1-2 days or the soy time of 1-2 weeks?

I added my FO at 170, should I have added the FO at a higher temp? 

I kept the same wicks, based on my jar dia - should I have switched to a different wick?

Any other suggestions for better CT AND HT with this wax???


If you have read through this WHOLE BOOK, thanks so much… any suggestions you have would be GREATLY appreciated, I thought para soy was the answer to all my problems and now Im just trying not to get super discouraged =(

Edited by ChristinaD

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At this point I'm even wondering if maybe I was just not using strong enough FO scents for the 464?? Because the Birch scent I used in the small 2oz cans is probably the strongest candle I have made! It actually has a strong HT that I would be happy with from my larger candles!

But after my first order, I have only purchased scents with reviews saying they had great HT in soy or even 464 specifically, so that's why I didn't think it was my FO .. I've purchased about 20+ small 1 oz bottles of different ones, lol

Edited by ChristinaD

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I am also now seeing recommendations to add FO at much higher temps for the 464 Soy wax than recommended by my original research ... My original research seemed to suggest that  would "burn off" the FO, but now I am reading that is only true of citrus or very light scents and all other scents should be added at higher temps, closer to 185??? I think the more I research the more confused I get, but I never added my FO that hot... so I'm now wondering if maybe that is the key ...

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I haven't used 464 in a long time but when I did I heated to 185, added FO at 180 and poured around 150. The throw was comparable to my normal wax, which is c3, from what I remember. 

The fragrance needs to be added to the wax at higher temperatures to allow it to bind to the wax molecules. I'd try a higher temp. Curing for 2 weeks also. 

I used 1 oz. per pound as well. 

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15 minutes ago, KimmyPee said:

I haven't used 464 in a long time but when I did I heated to 185, added FO at 180 and poured around 150. The throw was comparable to my normal wax, which is c3, from what I remember. 

The fragrance needs to be added to the wax at higher temperatures to allow it to bind to the wax molecules. I'd try a higher temp. Curing for 2 weeks also. 

I used 1 oz. per pound as well. 

Thank you so much! This actually makes me feel much better knowing that higher temps will help! I really love Soy and did not want to give up on it!!

 

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21 hours ago, wthomas57 said:

464 takes a long time to cure to get good GT. I feel the same about parasoys. 

That is good to know! Should the 2 weeks I am curing my soy candles be good and the same for the parasoy also?

Edited by ChristinaD

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Let it cure. And try smaller and cooler wicks. Eco 10, believe it or not is a pretty hot wick. Eco 8 might serve better in soy. 

 

RRD wicks are working well in soy for me at the moment. 

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Just now, TallTayl said:

Let it cure. And try smaller and cooler wicks. Eco 10, believe it or not is a pretty hot wick. Eco 8 might serve better in soy. 

 

RRD wicks are working well in soy for me at the moment. 

I've been doing 2 weeks cure time, but that surprises me about the wicks ... I will have to try, thanks!

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1 hour ago, Mrserinlynn said:

So good to hear someone else having these same issues. My story almost to a “T”. Did you find any success?

Yes! I started following manufacture recommendations of adding FO a time 185 in the 464 soy wax and my HT is excelllent now! My FO is at 6% and I pour at 150, smooth tops excellent HT & CT for the scents I’m currently doing  :) I had a few scents that were still light, but I decided not to continue making those. Also I always cure for 2 weeks minimum to get my HT where I want it 

Edited by ChristinaD
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6 minutes ago, Mrserinlynn said:

Thank you for replying! How long do you let care and are you using FO’s from Candle science?

I cure for 2 weeks. Candle science is my favorite! But I also use nature’s garden. I’ve also gotten some from lonestar & the flaming candle. But I’m not a fan of the lonestar scents except 1 I’ve tried lol The flaming candle FO seem pretty good but I’ve only tried a few from there 

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4 hours ago, chapguy said:

@chapguy I feel like it does, while I have a strong, cold throw immediately. And my cure time is specifically for the Hot throw. My candles have lids, so after the 2 weeks, when I take the lid off, the CT is even stronger.. I don’t know if that’s due to the lid trapping the scent or if they are really getting much stronger.  I’m still new to this and learning, but they do seem to have a stronger HT and CT after the 2 weeks. During experimentation I did have a few with low CT and that seemed to increase over time. Some of my candle continue to get stronger over even 4+ weeks. 

Edited by ChristinaD

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