GoldieMN Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 I'm having problems wicking a new batch of 464 in a couple of apple fragrances. Wicks that worked previously are too hot. Tried CD12 as well as wicking down with my Premiers. No hot throw. Stumped; then read a thread on double wicking 16 oz. tins. Has anyone double wicked a Mason or Ball pint jar with Premiers? Regular mouth so 2 1/2" opening. Just have no idea where to start or if two wicks would not work in this container. By the way, the new boxes of 464 have worked out for three of my fragrances with no changes in wicks. Thought I had this licked. Goldie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Goldie I wouldn't even attempt to double wick that jar. That jar I use for most of my accounts and using 464 I have had to downsize just recently to a cd 10 from a cd 12. And believe it or not the throw was super! That jar even if I used the smallest wick (cd 3 or cd 4) would be too hot for that jar and especially with shoulders on that jar that jar would get extremely hot. Now in the 16oz tins I do double wick with cd 4's. A single wick just struggled. Have you tried a smaller wick than the cd12? Is that the size you generally use? Trappeur 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldieMN Posted July 31, 2017 Author Share Posted July 31, 2017 Thanks @Trappeur I generally use Premier 780, 785, or 790. When I started having problems with 464, I got two new boxes of 464 and tested with Premiers as usual. Had success with first fragrances so went ahead and poured other fragrances. After waiting two weeks to cure, I noticed no hot throw with my two apple scents. So I poured again with cd 12s as well as one size up of the Premier. Waited another two weeks, and still getting little hot throw. I thought I had a eureka moment when I remembered the double wicking. Guess I will have to keep trying different wicks. By the way, I don't pour all the way into the top curve of the jar as I read on this forum that that contributes to the jar getting too hot. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've been able to use the bigger Premiers for hot throw with the jar heat staying reasonable. Goldie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldieMN Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 @Trappeur Are you getting a good hot throw with the cd10s with the 464 and pint jars? If I don't have a good hot throw with the cd12s, wouldn't the throw be lighter with the cd10s? I never tried wicking down with Premiers, just up. Goldie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 It's unbelievable Goldie, the throw is totally awesome....surprised me too...Actually I could almost go to a cd 8 on a couple scents. And I've been using cd12's for years for this jar. I don't know but the 464 I've been getting seems different in wicking lately. Actually what got me concerned is when TT said one day the tin I sent in the last years Thanksgiving thing we did got to a full melt a little quickly because I never had that problem and never thought about it. And I do extensive testing whenever I get a new jar. Actually a good account I have had for a number of years burns the tins everyday for samples in her shop and I have personally seen how she burns them and she does it properly. But lately things are different with this wax.....I have burning right now a huge glass container that I have always used and I have always always used 3 cd 7's. It is 5" wide. I am now burning them in 3 cd5's and I'm looking at it right now and I need to go down to a cd4!!!!I'm really really aggravated...... You know I probably need to start testing these boxes of wax when they come in. I know so many do I have seen posted on this forum they test each box, and I never do. I guess I should be doing this. This is horrible for me with as much wholesale as I do. But I have to have a safely made candle that is for sure. Goldie, what size premiers do you use for these jars? I've been saying for years now I'm going to try those wicks as Old Glory swore by them in 464. I'm going to get some and test. Trappeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 I am getting into a stronger habit of testing each LOT, not necessarily each box. So much has changed we are all in a lurch. WRT larger wicks and better throw, I have exactly the opposite experience. The hotter wicks my latest C3 wax needs causes WORSE throw. the hotter burn ruins the fragrance on most of the scents I use. The only exceptions were two hard to wick scents: Frankincense & Myrrh and Egyptian Dragon. All 50+ others throw worse with hotter wicks. Quite a few floral and fruit need to be wicked down to throw well. A person or two on this board proclaim years of experience to the contrary, but those of us still in the thick of things KNOW a LOT has changed in the last few months/years/decades to make any hard and fast rules about current waxes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldieMN Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 Thanks, @Trappeur, I will try some cd8s as I don't have 10s. I have always had good luck with Premier 777 with Rustic Escentuals MacIntosh to the point of an almost overpowering hot throw for me, but customers love it. I am now waiting my two weeks and will poke a hole in each of three jars to test three wicks. For my Rustic Escentuals Apple Pumpkin Strudel jars, Premier 785 has always worked. I got a hot throw from my tester, but I thought the jar got too hot in four hours. I tried a cd12, but the entire jar got too hot in four hours. Maybe I should just start over with this one and use a removeable cd8. I know, I'm all over the board with this. By the time I figure this out, I will be out of wax and need new boxes which will more than likely will not be the same batch. I always do power burns with one spot about 1/3 down in the jar getting a bit hot but then that goes away and the rest of the jar burns warm, not hot. I do power burns at 4 hours then 8 hours. With the premiers, I get a full melt pool sooner than most suggest but then it stays at 1/4" throughout the entire jar. That with the warm, not hot, jar worked well for me until my 464 problems. Goldie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 33 minutes ago, TallTayl said: I am getting into a stronger habit of testing each LOT, not necessarily each box. So much has changed we are all in a lurch. WRT larger wicks and better throw, I have exactly the opposite experience. The hotter wicks my latest C3 wax needs causes WORSE throw. the hotter burn ruins the fragrance on most of the scents I use. The only exceptions were two hard to wick scents: Frankincense & Myrrh and Egyptian Dragon. All 50+ others throw worse with hotter wicks. Quite a few floral and fruit need to be wicked down to throw well. A person or two on this board proclaim years of experience to the contrary, but those of us still in the thick of things KNOW a LOT has changed in the last few months/years/decades to make any hard and fast rules about current waxes. Ya know what TT? I thought my sniffer had gone on me or thought I was loosing grip lately on these candles because lately I don't smell much...and then I thought well since I smoke that makes a difference too....that I know. But I'm starting to agree 100% with you, the hotter wicks are burning off the scent! Im really believing in that! Thanks! Now with changes in 464 I'm finding out, I'm wicking down and I noticed on a couple of candles I'm burning that the throw is really rather nice! In fact very nice! And I know so many test each box of wax they get or maybe I misunderstood and people test each lot number to make sure it burns right...to be quite honest, I never have done that to check each batch. I have never even checked a lot number either...what for I always thought. lol, lol I have never ever had a single complaint (KNOCK ON WOOD) about the performance of my candles as I have burned them periodically myself when I needed a candle to burn for me and as always....no problem....till now....Well shame shame on me....I'm rethinking this whole thing now. Like you, there are some florals I wick down on. Thankyou for all your wisdom and experience that you always share with us. It's a constant learning.......and like you said even the person with all the years of doing this, there is always ever new situations arising here and there that we have to tackle and perfect to the best we know. Trappeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 43 minutes ago, GoldieMN said: Thanks, @Trappeur, I will try some cd8s as I don't have 10s. I have always had good luck with Premier 777 with Rustic Escentuals MacIntosh to the point of an almost overpowering hot throw for me, but customers love it. I am now waiting my two weeks and will poke a hole in each of three jars to test three wicks. For my Rustic Escentuals Apple Pumpkin Strudel jars, Premier 785 has always worked. I got a hot throw from my tester, but I thought the jar got too hot in four hours. I tried a cd12, but the entire jar got too hot in four hours. Maybe I should just start over with this one and use a removeable cd8. I know, I'm all over the board with this. By the time I figure this out, I will be out of wax and need new boxes which will more than likely will not be the same batch. I always do power burns with one spot about 1/3 down in the jar getting a bit hot but then that goes away and the rest of the jar burns warm, not hot. I do power burns at 4 hours then 8 hours. With the premiers, I get a full melt pool sooner than most suggest but then it stays at 1/4" throughout the entire jar. That with the warm, not hot, jar worked well for me until my 464 problems. Goldie I have to order some cd 8's and 10's Goldie today. If you want some 10's I can send you some? I see Flaming has the premiers so I guess I think I will order a sample pack....Sounds great your testing the way you do it! Geesh I wish someone would put up a cd versus premier cross referance chart so I could see what a cd10 for example was equivalent to in a premier. I shoot for like what you said you have where it stays at a 1/4" melt pool. This is ideal for me also. And I pour up to the bottom of the neck. It does get a rather quicker melt pool but as it burns down into the rest of the jar the melt pool does take longer which I would expect and like you said if I can keep the melt pool to shallow and the jar is not mad hot but hot like the way a candle should be I'm good with that. But the jar has to be able to be picked up without a doubt. Trappeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldieMN Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 @TallTayl @Trappeur Thank you both so much. I would NEVER have thought of wicking down. Probably not the best way to test, but I dug out the non-working wicks from these jars, pushed the wax in around the hole, and am trying smaller wicks. I'm running out of time and hope I can get by doing this instead of melting and waiting two weeks to cure. If I even get close with a good hot throw, I will pour new for selling. The ONLY thing that is going right for me with candles right now is I never used any Peak fragrances. Trappeur, I will take you up on your offer for a half dozen cd 10s if I can send you six of each of the following Premiers: 790, 785, 780, 775, 767, 765. I don't have any 770s. Goldie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 23 minutes ago, GoldieMN said: @TallTayl @Trappeur Thank you both so much. I would NEVER have thought of wicking down. Probably not the best way to test, but I dug out the non-working wicks from these jars, pushed the wax in around the hole, and am trying smaller wicks. I'm running out of time and hope I can get by doing this instead of melting and waiting two weeks to cure. If I even get close with a good hot throw, I will pour new for selling. The ONLY thing that is going right for me with candles right now is I never used any Peak fragrances. Trappeur, I will take you up on your offer for a half dozen cd 10s if I can send you six of each of the following Premiers: 790, 785, 780, 775, 767, 765. I don't have any 770s. Goldie You got it Goldie! But I can send you more than 6! You need some 8's? And guess what....I really never ordered anything from Peaks either......God bless the ones who have and are in a pickle.....such a friggin shame.... Trappeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldieMN Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 Thanks @Trappeur, I have 8's & 10's. I will private message you my address. Yours still the same as last year? I have that. Goldie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Yes, same address for 27 years! lol I sent it to you again also. I will have my wicks from Flaming on Friday and send pronto to you. Thankyou. Trappeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldieMN Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 OMG, OMG, OMG! I have a hot throw with my apple strudel 464 jar! Wicked down from 785 to 780 to 775 to 767 and finally can smell it. lol It took a couple hours to get something I could detect with the 767, but I'm so happy. I am going to try 765 next just to see if I will still get a good hot throw but in a shorter period of time. I can't wait to dig the wicks out of all my testers that I've had problems with and rewick. I hope to God the wax doesn't change again although I WILL test every lot/date from now on. Thank you @Trappeur & @TallTayl and anyone else for your suggestion to wick down. I am Pinkie (aka Goldie) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 5 hours ago, GoldieMN said: I'm running out of time and hope I can get by doing this instead of melting and waiting two weeks to cure. Even if you had had to remelt that jar and start over with another wick, you wouldn't have had to wait for 2 weeks to cure.....All you would have had to do is let the candle harden up and relight it as you have already let the candle cure......know what I mean? Trappeur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 47 minutes ago, GoldieMN said: OMG, OMG, OMG! I have a hot throw with my apple strudel 464 jar! Wicked down from 785 to 780 to 775 to 767 and finally can smell it. lol It took a couple hours to get something I could detect with the 767, but I'm so happy. I am going to try 765 next just to see if I will still get a good hot throw but in a shorter period of time. I can't wait to dig the wicks out of all my testers that I've had problems with and rewick. I hope to God the wax doesn't change again although I WILL test every lot/date from now on. Thank you @Trappeur & @TallTayl and anyone else for your suggestion to wick down. I am Pinkie (aka Goldie) Good job.....good job! You go girl! I'm visualizing you popping all those wicks in and out of your jars frantically determined you were going to make it work and you did! Trappeur 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldieMN Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 46 minutes ago, Trappeur said: Even if you had had to remelt that jar and start over with another wick, you wouldn't have had to wait for 2 weeks to cure.....All you would have had to do is let the candle harden up and relight it as you have already let the candle cure......know what I mean? Trappeur Really? Another great tidbit! That means I can go ahead and rewick all my MacIntosh jars and quite a few others. This just keeps getting better. Goldie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, GoldieMN said: Really? Another great tidbit! That means I can go ahead and rewick all my MacIntosh jars and quite a few others. This just keeps getting better. Goldie lol, lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolP Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 What lot are you having to wick down with 464? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldieMN Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 7 hours ago, CarolP said: What lot are you having to wick down with 464? The current boxes I am working with are Lot C, dated 3/25/17. The first two fragrances I poured were perfect--Lemon Biscotti & Nutmeg Ginger; didn't wick down on those. I had problems with Lot F from last year (maybe an October date) but haven't gone back to those boxes to test with lower numbered wicks. Goldie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldieMN Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 On 8/1/2017 at 2:34 PM, Trappeur said: Yes, same address for 27 years! lol I sent it to you again also. I will have my wicks from Flaming on Friday and send pronto to you. Thankyou. Trappeur I found a sample pack of CD10s in my stash so you don't have to send me any but thank you for offering. Goldie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthomas57 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 I agree with tallTaly on cooler burning wick for better throw. While I would never suggest a zinc wick for soy wax like 464, zincs burn the coolest and they nearly ALWAYs have the best throw in my opinion (again dont use in soy). But the point is the same, usually cooler burning gives better throw... but you also enough hot enough for a proper burn. Finding the balance is the hard part. Also for what its worth, Ive been having to wick UP lately with soy like 464 like many others, not wick down. So who knows what the heck is going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franu61 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 On 8/2/2017 at 3:15 PM, GoldieMN said: The current boxes I am working with are Lot C, dated 3/25/17. The first two fragrances I poured were perfect--Lemon Biscotti & Nutmeg Ginger; didn't wick down on those. I had problems with Lot F from last year (maybe an October date) but haven't gone back to those boxes to test with lower numbered wicks. Goldie since there are so many of us using 464 I wonder if we could have an ongoing thread about having to wick up or down for different lots. Each of us post if we've had to make changes on certain scents and certain lots. I am using lot F from 4/28/17 and have had to wick down on my 4 oz tins for some of my blended scents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldieMN Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share Posted September 2, 2017 @franu61 Just to restate, I'm using 464 in pint canning jars. I use Premier wicks and have had to wick down from 785 & 790 to 770 with most of my oils to get back to a good hot throw. CD10s work well with Fillmore's Nutmeg Ginger. I use 6.67%-7% fragrance oil (depending on method used to determine). Almost through my two boxes with the 3/2017 date and will have to start testing all over again with different dated boxes as I get them. Sooooo sick of this. Goldie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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