New to the forum, not to candlemaking

[TallTayl]

I see lots of trademark infringement of sports related logos 😕 at local fairs. Who doesn't have a polar fleece blanket with their favorite team for sale? Ugh. 

 

Heck, the little "Raiders" cheer team from a local elementary school just decided to use the LA raiders logo directly as-is on all of their merch. Didn't even bother to try to change colors, the eye patch or anything 😳. What is this teaching kids?

 

it is a fine line drawing inspiration from something versus lifting artwork, words, etc. I found my own product name and slogan used by several Amazon and similar retail sites recently. Burned my britches, let me tell you. Then I discovered someone beat me to trademarking my own words. Technically, even though I have proven first use from several years prior to their purchasing the use of the words, there's nothing I can do about it besides come up with something entirely new and unique. 

[lumoscandles]

On 9/18/2017 at 10:52 AM, Clear Black said:

Also, I meant to ask how you did you new photos? They look nice, did you do thrm yourself or bring them to a studio?

 

Thank you! My photos were taken by a friend with a nice camera and photography experience. We shot them in my apartment in front of patio door for natural lighting. I have self-taught photo editing experience so I cropped and edited them myself using Paint Shop Pro (cheaper alternative to photoshop). 

 

Thanks to everyone for the advice! Now I am trying to figure out the best way to transition to more original products without totally losing my current customer base... It's a shame because I really enjoy making these items because I am passionate about my love of the original work. I pick out each fragrance to individually match the house traits associated with it, created the labels myself and everything. But I understand now that it is still an issue and liability even if hundreds of others are also infringing on copyright. I have a lot of ideas in mind but it will still be sad for me to say goodbye to these products.

[Clear Black]

On 9/18/2017 at 1:38 PM, TallTayl said:

I see lots of trademark infringement of sports related logos 😕 at local fairs. Who doesn't have a polar fleece blanket with their favorite team for sale? Ugh. 

 

Heck, the little "Raiders" cheer team from a local elementary school just decided to use the LA raiders logo directly as-is on all of their merch. Didn't even bother to try to change colors, the eye patch or anything 😳. What is this teaching kids?

 

it is a fine line drawing inspiration from something versus lifting artwork, words, etc. I found my own product name and slogan used by several Amazon and similar retail sites recently. Burned my britches, let me tell you. Then I discovered someone beat me to trademarking my own words. Technically, even though I have proven first use from several years prior to their purchasing the use of the words, there's nothing I can do about it besides come up with something entirely new and unique. 

 

 

Ya. Nope, thats just bad all around.

[TallTayl]

8 hours ago, lumoscandles said:

 

Thank you! My photos were taken by a friend with a nice camera and photography experience. We shot them in my apartment in front of patio door for natural lighting. I have self-taught photo editing experience so I cropped and edited them myself using Paint Shop Pro (cheaper alternative to photoshop). 

 

Thanks to everyone for the advice! Now I am trying to figure out the best way to transition to more original products without totally losing my current customer base... It's a shame because I really enjoy making these items because I am passionate about my love of the original work. I pick out each fragrance to individually match the house traits associated with it, created the labels myself and everything. But I understand now that it is still an issue and liability even if hundreds of others are also infringing on copyright. I have a lot of ideas in mind but it will still be sad for me to say goodbye to these products.

You can work toward your own fandom of the original. Create side stories that tie into the originals. Imagine new worlds that are tangent to the original... 

[Faerywren]

8 hours ago, lumoscandles said:

 

Thank you! My photos were taken by a friend with a nice camera and photography experience. We shot them in my apartment in front of patio door for natural lighting. I have self-taught photo editing experience so I cropped and edited them myself using Paint Shop Pro (cheaper alternative to photoshop). 

 

Thanks to everyone for the advice! Now I am trying to figure out the best way to transition to more original products without totally losing my current customer base... It's a shame because I really enjoy making these items because I am passionate about my love of the original work. I pick out each fragrance to individually match the house traits associated with it, created the labels myself and everything. But I understand now that it is still an issue and liability even if hundreds of others are also infringing on copyright. I have a lot of ideas in mind but it will still be sad for me to say goodbye to these products.

Many of us here do items that are inspired by things we love, but we've given them original names. For instance, I have a Red Witch soap that is GoT inspired and a soap called Baker Street that is Sherlock inspired. Back in the day I had Twilight inspired products. The names gave recognition, but I never used any trademarked/copyrighted images, logos or graphics.

I saw a local chandler ignore advice to stop selling candles with college football logos and NASCAR logos/driver likenesses on them. She thought she would be fine because she "wasn't that big a company". She wound up losing her candle company and a lot more.

[TallTayl]

A side benefit to being original, yet inspired, is when those movies go out of vogue you don't lose your cash flow 🤗  

 

I often wondered, If people only buy an item because today because they like the movie now, will they stay loyal to "you" or your brand in the long run? 

[Clear Black]

21 hours ago, TallTayl said:

A side benefit to being original, yet inspired, is when those movies go out of vogue you don't lose your cash flow 🤗  

 

I often wondered, If people only buy an item because today because they like the movie now, will they stay loyal to "you" or your brand in the long run? 

 

This. Are they buying your brand or just the FOTM? (Flavor of the month) Do it proper, and they will buy your brand

[ShelleyF]

Hi I am just seeing this. I am pretty new. I make wax melts. Are you all saying that I can't sell Love Spell with the word type or inspired. I have to change the name completely? Then people won't know what it is. I see everyone online selling like that   but I want to do the right thing.

[Lana]

On 5/27/2018 at 1:44 PM, ShelleyF said:

Hi I am just seeing this. I am pretty new. I make wax melts. Are you all saying that I can't sell Love Spell with the word type or inspired. I have to change the name completely? Then people won't know what it is. I see everyone online selling like that   but I want to do the right thing.

You have to change the name and adding “type” does not save you in the event of a lawsuit. 

 

The attorney for 2 companies just did a big sweep on Etsy. For about a week, there were zero listings for Frasier Fir Wax Melts / Candles and they’re slowly trickling back in. People are playing with fire when they keep using TM’d names bc Etsy will eventually just shut your shop down. Not to mention potentially being sued. 

[pughaus]

When I've seen the words "type" and "our version of" to describe fragrance oils on supplier's websites I've often wondered how that really protects you from legal action re: trademark infringement. It seems to me that using a trademarked name like "fruit loops" type for example, to describe your own product would constitute some kind of a violation and yet this seems to be standard practice in the candle and soap making business.  I have to believe at least some of our suppliers have consulted with trademark attorneys and have determined this is legally acceptable.  But If I started bottling and selling my own soda and labeled and advertised  it as "Coca Cola" type or "our version of Pepsi"  that would seem to me like a pretty clear trade mark infringement.  How is it different, I wonder,  when it's done to describe a fragrance oil, finished candle or soap?

 

[ncraiders]

I kinda have to wonder if say companies like Yankee Candle lets fragrance suppliers get away with using the same name since they are only selling the fragrance not candles.  As technically the fragrance company is not direct competition to them like candle makers are.

[ShelleyF]

You all have great advice. I will change the names. I noticed that Nature's Garden changes theirs. My daughter laughed and said Loving Spell? She said I know what that is. Can you say in your description that it is similar to the name brand or can't mention it at all?

[TallTayl]

5 hours ago, pughaus said:

When I've seen the words "type" and "our version of" to describe fragrance oils on supplier's websites I've often wondered how that really protects you from legal action re: trademark infringement. 

It does not. If a company chooses to enforce their trademark you must change your copy. That gets expensive if you’ve already spent $ on labels, branding, etc. 

 

2 hours ago, ShelleyF said:

You all have great advice. I will change the names. I noticed that Nature's Garden changes theirs. My daughter laughed and said Loving Spell? She said I know what that is. Can you say in your description that it is similar to the name brand or can't mention it at all?

No. Any part of the copy you write is vulnerable to trademark enforcement. Trademark holders scour every incidence of their words and can enforce a cease and desist for every found match. Which makes sense. 

[ShelleyF]

It does make sense. I'm just trying to figure out how to change the name so people know what it is. But then again it might be more interesting if it's scent they never heard of before right lol I am new so I'm glad I'm learning about this before I spent too much money.

[pughaus]

4 hours ago, ShelleyF said:

 I noticed that Nature's Garden changes theirs. My daughter laughed and said Loving Spell? She said I know what that is. Can you say in your description that it is similar to the name brand or can't mention it at all?

I noticed that too-  Nature's Garden stands out in that they seem to take care not to use a brand's name in their descriptions.  I'm kind of puzzled why a corporate brand would choose to target small sellers on etsy for trademark violations when a quick google search for  say,"yankee type" would pull up pages and pages of listings from larger companies that are selling the FOs to the crafters.  

[ncraiders]

2 minutes ago, pughaus said:

I noticed that too-  Nature's Garden stands out in that they seem to take care not to use a brand's name in their descriptions.  I'm kind of puzzled why a corporate brand would choose to target small sellers on etsy for trademark violations when a quick google search for  say,"yankee type" would pull up pages and pages of listings from larger companies that are selling the FOs to the crafters.  

I think it is more likely that they wanna target the people that are selling candles that use the duped fragrance over the manufactures of the duplication.  I have found a few companies that on there site Tell you the fragrance name is copyrighted and that before selling a candle with that fragrance to change the name or you could face a lawsuit.  Which again makes me that that the candle companies are not that interested in the fragrance companies but rather the end seller of the candles which could hurt there sales in the end. Honestly i think if they are gonna go after candle sellers on etsy or amazon or whatever site they use to sell them on they should go after the fragrance companies as well seeing as they market it as a dup fragrance by just adding type.  In the end unless the fragrance company says that you need to change the name most people are not gonna think about the fact that if a candle company wanted to they could sue them for trademark infringement.  

[pughaus]

15 minutes ago, ncraiders said:

but rather the end seller of the candles which could hurt there sales in the end.

except it's not just Yankee or BBB candle scent names, it's Bobbi Brown or Victoria's Secret or any number of perfume brand names too that are being used in supplier listings.

Clearly they are getting away with it.  I guess I'm just curious how and why the companies that are making the most profit from using these TM names are doing so seemingly without any consequence but "Jane Doe's Homemade Lotion and Potions" on etsy gets nailed 🤔

Edited May 31, 2018 by pughaus

[TallTayl]

42 minutes ago, pughaus said:

I noticed that too-  Nature's Garden stands out in that they seem to take care not to use a brand's name in their descriptions.  I'm kind of puzzled why a corporate brand would choose to target small sellers on etsy for trademark violations when a quick google search for  say,"yankee type" would pull up pages and pages of listings from larger companies that are selling the FOs to the crafters.  

Easy. Those that have trademark their scent names have spent thousands upon thousands upon thousands of dollars developing, marketing and branding. Somebody using a dupe, which is not the actual fragrance itself, is profiting from somebody else’s marketing and money. It does Yankee no good. Kind of like Prado instead of Prada knock off bags on any street in New York. It’s stealing plain and simple.  How many times has someone asked you to make them a version of their favorite scent in a product they could easily get, but then offer you less money? Happens every single day. 

[TallTayl]

I will try to find a video series about how he scent makes it to market. Many of these perfumers spend millions and the scent never even makes it. 

 

Fragrance is a multi billion dollar a year industry. You got to protect your assets.

[ncraiders]

Yeah it makes no sense to me at all as to why they decide to go after someone that might make say 5k a year selling candles on etsy.  Yet let the fragrance companies make millions a year off the fragrance alone.  If they go after one for tm infringement they should go after everyone.Sadly tho that is not how the world works.  the smaller business and groups tend to be the ones that get hit with it more so than bigger companies.

[pughaus]

3 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

 

 

Fragrance is a multi billion dollar a year industry. You got to protect your assets.

Indeed. That's why I'm questioning why enforce TM protection on a small crafter and ignore a large fragrance oil supplier's use of your brand name.

[ncraiders]

I bet some of it stems from the fact that Hillbilly Candles (No clue if that is a company or not)  doesn't have the money to fight the candle/main fragrance manufacturer like some of the companies that make the dupes do.  Honestly I think that companies like Yankee Candle could make a massive killing if they actually sold the fragrances as well.  Lets face it if you like Yankee Candles Home sweet Home you would be more willing to pay a higher price for the fragrance from the company that puts out that fragrance than a dupe that might or might not be as good.  I would pay say 5$ an ounce over 2.50$ an ounce if i could get it from the main company itself seeing as i would know that the scent would be completely identical.

[TallTayl]

14 minutes ago, ncraiders said:

I bet some of it stems from the fact that Hillbilly Candles (No clue if that is a company or not)  doesn't have the money to fight the candle/main fragrance manufacturer like some of the companies that make the dupes do.  Honestly I think that companies like Yankee Candle could make a massive killing if they actually sold the fragrances as well.  Lets face it if you like Yankee Candles Home sweet Home you would be more willing to pay a higher price for the fragrance from the company that puts out that fragrance than a dupe that might or might not be as good.  I would pay say 5$ an ounce over 2.50$ an ounce if i could get it from the main company itself seeing as i would know that the scent would be completely identical.

Then Yankee candle et at would not be a candle company anymore. It would be a fragrance house.  Why create more competition for your brand? Everybody just needs to mix up their own and come up with a unique name. It’s not that hard. 

[TallTayl]

16 minutes ago, pughaus said:

Indeed. That's why I'm questioning why enforce TM protection on a small crafter and ignore a large fragrance oil supplier's use of your brand name.

Maybe they do go after bigger companies. Would ng announce they were being sued for infringement? Likewise ng might make enough $ to afford the fines. 

[ShelleyF]

Could you name something similar so that customers will know what it is? Like for example Love Spellz what about Endlessly in Love? Or would it be better just to make it something unique and maybe that would be more interesting for people?