Bulk Apothecary = Scam? Your opinions?

[strugglebrother]

In the beginning, I started buying from this company to try different suppliers out. Fragrance oils were decent in some of my candles but pretty soon I started to notice a lot of weird things about them.

 

1.
If you order something from them and they run out of stock they ship the order without that product and without informing. Extremely unprofessional when you have a candle deadline. You put in your order, wait for a week just to realize that you are still out of stock when it arrives. You might be ordering a few pounds of the oil you want and a few samples. The package comes only with the samples (which you only ordered as an add-on to the shipment).

Their inventory system isn’t synced at all with their online system. All other suppliers email me to ask me if I want to proceed with the order if something is out of stock. Sometimes they even offer free shipping on the oil that they ran out of as soon as it’s back in stock.

 

Bulk did refund me for the shipping after hitting them up after but it doesn’t help if you have deadlines. And time is also money.

 

2.
Their oils go off quick. I noticed that a few oils I bought smell bad already after 6 months. Pretty soon I figured out that most of their oils are just rebottled oils from Lebermouth. Lebermouth bottles them for you when you order and you know that you get them fresh from the source. I figure Bulk have them sitting for years as there isn’t any information about when they were bottled at all. Hence why I buy everything from Lebermouth instead as of now.

 

3.
They tamper with their rating system. Not ONE single product review from customers have less than 5 stars. They simply delete anything that has been reviewed with less than 5 stars. Or just write their own “fake reviews” to make their product look good. I tried myself to write a review of what I bought, it never showed up on their website.

 

4.
Their testing of oils in different applications are fake or inaccurate. They simply write on each and every of their FO’s that it’s been tested to work well in everything. Exactly the same oil on Lebermouth is for instance tested not to work well in candles but better in other applications.

 

5.
Extreme pricing. Same oils on Lebermouth is usually 10 dollars cheaper per pound. They are obviously free to charge whatever they want but I see it just as upscale pricing for the sake of it. Some of their FO’s are up to 85 dollars per pound?!!

 

6.
Have you heard of a supplier who charges you more per pound if you buy it in bigger quantities?

 

http://www.bulkapothecary.com/south-seas-fragrance-oil/

 

2oz bottles are 7.95 which would be 63.60 per pound if you buy 8 of them. 16oz is 86

 

I called several times to ask them to adjust the price for me and after management looked it over their representative gave me this answer:

 

“The prices are accurate on the website. The prices are that way due to the labor of filling the oil makes the price be more for the larger sizes. “

 

I wrote back

 

“Is the labor more to fill one bottle instead of filling and manufacturing 8 2 ounce glass bottles? Doesn't seem environmental friendly at all?”

 

And the answer was

 

“I definitely agree with you. That was per upper management and that is the pricing. I wish I could change it but I unfortunately can not.”

I then choose to scrap that scent and work on something else. That was the last time I bought something from them.

 

7.
I then googled Bulk Apothecary scam and first thing that comes up are people's opinions on yelp about them and it’s not good at all

 

https://www.yelp.com/biz/bulk-apothecary-streetsboro

 

They have of course shut off people's ability to post any comments on their Facebook page. Only companies with bad reputation do that.

 

To me, all this seem like unethical business practice. What're your experiences?

[Moonstar]

Ive never ordered for this reason. Id much rather pay Lebermuths $20 fee for not meeting their minimum requirement than take a risk. 

Their prices are way cheaper + my experience with Lebermuth has been nothing but positive . Super impressed with them .

Sorry you experienced this with BA  

[strugglebrother]

1 hour ago, Moonstar said:

Ive never ordered for this reason. Id much rather pay Lebermuths $20 fee for not meeting their minimum requirement than take a risk. 

Their prices are way cheaper + my experience with Lebermuth has been nothing but positive . Super impressed with them .

Sorry you experienced this with BA  

 

 

Agreed. Since each oil is up priced so much from Bulk the $20 fee isn't really an issue. Sometimes Lebermouth even waives that fee for me. Very good customer service.

 

Owner Danny Pellegrino is the brother of Natural Essentials owner Gary Pellegrino. Here is a quote from him in 2010 "One reason Bulk Apothecary has done so well is its dedication to customer service. If a customer isn't completely happy with her purchase, she can return it within 14 days for a full refund minus shipping. No questions asked. And if she can find a better advertised price on any item Bulk Apothecary sells, the company will beat it."

 

They definitely don't offer to beat anyone else's price and customers are complaining. They have a lot of work to do to repair their reputation.

 

 

 

[Moonstar]

14 minutes ago, strugglebrother said:

 

Agreed. Since each oil is up priced so much from Bulk the $20 fee isn't really an issue. Sometimes Lebermouth even waives that fee for me. Very good customer service.

 

Owner Danny Pellegrino is the brother of Natural Essentials owner Gary Pellegrino. Here is a quote from him in 2010 "One reason Bulk Apothecary has done so well is its dedication to customer service. If a customer isn't completely happy with her purchase, she can return it within 14 days for a full refund minus shipping. No questions asked. And if she can find a better advertised price on any item Bulk Apothecary sells, the company will beat it."

 

They definitely don't offer to beat anyone else's price and customers are complaining. They have a lot of work to do to repair their reputation.

 

 

 

Awhile back I got some samples from Lebermuth and I knew what I needed to know about them as a company when my package arrived. Expertly packed

in glass bottles and each was placed in a bubble envelope and I loved nearly everything I choose. There were a few I didn't like - Kelp & Bay Rum

Ones I did like were : coconut cream - coconut ginger almond - pink salt & water lily - strawberry milkshake - lemon cream - sweet sugar - lemon verbena 

coconut macaroon - lavender vanilla - apple jack peel - lavender 40/42 - jasmine frangapani ( I don't typically like florals but I like this one ) 

There was more samples I wish I would of tried but these gave me a good measure of the quality. LOVE the lemon cream, I'll use that in lotion. 

what about you ... any must haves ... what application do you use them in ? I always think buying directly from the source ( when possible of course) is the 

way to go. Like you said, you just don't know how long the oils are sitting at BA. Thats probably why they smell off in 6 months like you said. 

[kandlekrazy]

I've always had good luck with Bulk Apothecary but I have bought very few fo's from them.  I use them for many other things including bulk chocolate.  Lebermuth oils are in general very good but who knows how they move at Bulk Apothecary.  If I needed just Bay Rum, I'd buy from BA and if I needed a bunch I bought it direct from Lebermuth.  The pricing is a management strategy to get people to try the small bottles of fo at a lesser cost in hopes the next order would be pounds.  I've seen other companies do the same thing but usually it's not that far apart in cost.

[Moonstar]

24 minutes ago, kandlekrazy said:

I've always had good luck with Bulk Apothecary but I have bought very few fo's from them.  I use them for many other things including bulk chocolate.  Lebermuth oils are in general very good but who knows how they move at Bulk Apothecary.  If I needed just Bay Rum, I'd buy from BA and if I needed a bunch I bought it direct from Lebermuth.  The pricing is a management strategy to get people to try the small bottles of fo at a lesser cost in hopes the next order would be pounds.  I've seen other companies do the same thing but usually it's not that far apart in cost.

Good points  what are your favorite lebermuth oils ? 

[Trappeur]

Wow, I'm sorry this has happened to you.  I have looked at their oils quite a few times but I just couldn't justify spending that much on an oil.  Granted you get what you pay for and I don't mind paying for quality what so ever.  But this thing that has happened to you would bother me horribly if that happened to me.

 

Trappeur

 

 

[TallTayl]

About maybe 18 months ago a few Facebook soap groups had an issue with them selling soaping oils like coconut oil, Shea butter and cocoa butter for example by volume versus weight, despite coconut oil being solid at typical room temps. It grew to nearly be a class action suit.

 

i buy waxes from them when the pricing is right. Usually there's a decent coupon active every time. I had to price shop beeswax earlier this week and am waiting for their white to arrive to see if it is a good buy or gross waste of money. At 55lbs it is a hefty gamble. What was odd about the cart is one 55lb case of wax to me was $17 and change through fedex. Two cases quoted me $55. If the wax is good, I'll place two separate orders for more. I'm sure if I called it would be ironed out, but I was being phone lazy. 

 

have only bought a couple of 1oz FO in search of a replacement for a discontinued or out of business source and to compare what I had from lebermuth against BA. Egyptian dragon, for instance, was NOT the same between Lebermuth and BA. I have a few of their flavors, and so far I am batting 500. 

 

Formflavors, their banana  is a super seller for me (or at least was last Faire season). Tastes like yellow banana taffy. Their Kentucky bourbon flavor I want to love, but nobody can taste or smell it in lip balm even over flavored at 5%. I had suck high hopes!

 

the rum and coke is good. Grapefruit is OK, but I like the sage's grapefruit essential oil more. 

[strugglebrother]

2 hours ago, TallTayl said:

About maybe 18 months ago a few Facebook soap groups had an issue with them selling soaping oils like coconut oil, Shea butter and cocoa butter for example by volume versus weight, despite coconut oil being solid at typical room temps. It grew to nearly be a class action suit.

 

i buy waxes from them when the pricing is right. Usually there's a decent coupon active every time. I had to price shop beeswax earlier this week and am waiting for their white to arrive to see if it is a good buy or gross waste of money. At 55lbs it is a hefty gamble. What was odd about the cart is one 55lb case of wax to me was $17 and change through fedex. Two cases quoted me $55. If the wax is good, I'll place two separate orders for more. I'm sure if I called it would be ironed out, but I was being phone lazy. 

 

have only bought a couple of 1oz FO in search of a replacement for a discontinued or out of business source and to compare what I had from lebermuth against BA. Egyptian dragon, for instance, was NOT the same between Lebermuth and BA. I have a few of their flavors, and so far I am batting 500. 

 

Formflavors, their banana  is a super seller for me (or at least was last Faire season). Tastes like yellow banana taffy. Their Kentucky bourbon flavor I want to love, but nobody can taste or smell it in lip balm even over flavored at 5%. I had suck high hopes!

 

the rum and coke is good. Grapefruit is OK, but I like the sage's grapefruit essential oil more. 

 

 

[strugglebrother]

Yes, they do have other oils than Lebermouth. But I would never gamble on buying something I can not be sure of that I can even use upon arrival.

 

I forgot to mention that I bought 4630 wax from them before, shipping turned out to be cheaper than Candlescience. 25 % of the candles from that wax separated from the fragrance oil. Nothing that's never happened before when ordered the same wax from other sources. It's a quality gamble.

 

Paying premium for quality is one thing, ridiculous overpricing is another.

 

Let me come back to you with the Lebermouth favorites I have.. Some of their flower one's are really accurate. We have been using them for candles and room sprays.

[kandlekrazy]

13 hours ago, Moonstar said:

Good points  what are your favorite lebermuth oils ? 

Obviously Bay Rum, lol.  Not all my favs but this is what sells for me

Cinnamon Orange Clove

Egyptian Dragon

Instant Vacation (which I rename)

Lavender Vanilla

OMH

Ylang Ylang Myrrh

That's what I can think of off hand.

 

[Moonstar]

10 hours ago, strugglebrother said:

Yes, they do have other oils than Lebermouth. But I would never gamble on buying something I can not be sure of that I can even use upon arrival.

 

I forgot to mention that I bought 4630 wax from them before, shipping turned out to be cheaper than Candlescience. 25 % of the candles from that wax separated from the fragrance oil. Nothing that's never happened before when ordered the same wax from other sources. It's a quality gamble.

 

Paying premium for quality is one thing, ridiculous overpricing is another.

 

Let me come back to you with the Lebermouth favorites I have.. Some of their flower one's are really accurate. We have been using them for candles and room sprays.

Thank you  

 

[Kshaler]

I use Bulk A allot and for the most part I love them had one issue where the wicks lifted when I would pour the wax and one time the the midnight vanilla leaked alittle during shipping ! For the most part their oils are awesome ! I use them because their shipping is less than CS or Aztec which are my other favs I bought my last 50lb 4630 with no issues with in almost used it all already ! I know MARY  the one you get when you ask tech questions by name on email you cant ask the chat they know nothing they will tell you everything is 3 % use in skin NOT ! Cucumber melon is .6 but you have to ask mary

Just my o2 and I am still an newbie we are about a year into our adventure now  

[Kshaler]

Also Lebermuth I can't afford that much to try something and Bulk a has specialty scents you don't find on  Lebermuth maybe B A mixes them and sells them I don't know but I need my dupes hope this helps !

[Candybee]

I've only made one purchase from BA when I had trouble finding a particular item. As I browsed the site I was appalled at some of their prices and decided to shop elsewhere. Even the one item I bought I eventually found it from another supplier at a much more reasonable price and have since not purchased anything from them.  Periodically I check out the sight but again don't buy anything for the same reason. They are still overpriced and I can find whatever I need elsewhere at a much more reasonable price.

[TallTayl]

Just a couple of days ago receivedthe 55 lb carton of white beeswax pastille from BA. Completely satisfied with it. After applying the coupon code The price including freight was much better than the total prices even from soapers choice (@$12 UPS to ship 50lbs from soapers choice).

 

I guess it is hit or miss. I have to shop around for a lot of my heavy ingredients. 

 

The soaping oils problem also had a complaint that the jugs and bottles were counted in the weight of the sale. So if the container weighed 2 oz, a lb of the soaping oils came to only 14 oz. we ALL need to measure and weigh products received from all vendors.

[lovelyscents]

On 1/12/2017 at 9:09 PM, TallTayl said:

About maybe 18 months ago a few Facebook soap groups had an issue with them selling soaping oils like coconut oil, Shea butter and cocoa butter for example by volume versus weight, despite coconut oil being solid at typical room temps. It grew to nearly be a class action suit.

 

i buy waxes from them when the pricing is right. Usually there's a decent coupon active every time. I had to price shop beeswax earlier this week and am waiting for their white to arrive to see if it is a good buy or gross waste of money. At 55lbs it is a hefty gamble. What was odd about the cart is one 55lb case of wax to me was $17 and change through fedex. Two cases quoted me $55. If the wax is good, I'll place two separate orders for more. I'm sure if I called it would be ironed out, but I was being phone lazy. 

 

have only bought a couple of 1oz FO in search of a replacement for a discontinued or out of business source and to compare what I had from lebermuth against BA. Egyptian dragon, for instance, was NOT the same between Lebermuth and BA. I have a few of their flavors, and so far I am batting 500. 

 

Formflavors, their banana  is a super seller for me (or at least was last Faire season). Tastes like yellow banana taffy. Their Kentucky bourbon flavor I want to love, but nobody can taste or smell it in lip balm even over flavored at 5%. I had suck high hopes!

 

the rum and coke is good. Grapefruit is OK, but I like the sage's grapefruit essential oil more. 

I am looking to purchase wax from them since they are only a couple hours away from me, so I may pickup vs shipping.  Did you find the wax to be quality and consistent?  I have came across posts on here that stated people were having issues with IGI waxes not being the same from Lonestar as other suppliers and the wax wasn't consistent with previous IGI waxes they purchased.

[TallTayl]

Knock on wood, the waxes I have from them have been fine.

[bfroberts]

I've never had an issue.  Shipping is slower than some, but not as slow as others.  I've never bought wax from them, but I would if I needed to.  The other items I buy have always been great quality.  I've never not received everything I ordered.  I can't speak to whether or not they pad their reviews or delete reviews, but I do know that not all their reviews are 5 star.  There are other companies out there that are more questionable, in my opinion.

[lovelyscents]

I received my waxes from Bulk for testing (6006, 4786, 4794, 4625, 4630).  Right off the bat out of the box, I could tell that 6006 is a bit darker than all of the other waxes, almost a yellow tint.  When I took it out in the natural light, it is more off white than yellow but definitely a difference from the other white waxes.  Me being new, I dont know if this is normal or not.  Anyways, I did tons of melts over the past 2 days and was in my groove, doing everything the same way.  Then I started having issues with Mrs. Claus Cookies and FB BB jam cookies not mixing. I cannot get them to mix even at 8% with 4786 or 4625 which usually isn't an issue even with heavier oils such as SVS from Candlewic I'm testing.  It didn't hold 10% in 4630 either which I know holds more FO.  Even at the high temp it kept "beading" (like trying to mix oil and water) and kept settling at the bottom, I could actually see it like syrup not mixing in after stirring forever letting it settle and stirring again.  They both mixed into parasoy wax, but something has to be wrong as I know many on here that use it in their straight paraffin waxes just fine.  Do you think its the wax?  I cant call them up and say send me a replacement if I dont even know how these waxes are supposed to look since most of them are new to me.   I can say the 4625 and 4630 which I am familiar with seem to look ok.

 

ETA: testing melts not candles at this time

Edited May 14, 2017 by lovelyscents

[bfroberts]

Side by side, 6006 will look a little more yellow than 4630 and 4625.  That is normal.  I don't use the others so I don't have a comparison for those.  As for your oils not mixing....I get that too from time to time with certain scents.  What temp are your adding your FO?  I heat to 185 - 190 and then add the FO while still on the heat source, stir a minute or so and then remove from the heat.  Seems to help a lot with those heavier oils.

[lovelyscents]

1 hour ago, bfroberts said:

Side by side, 6006 will look a little more yellow than 4630 and 4625.  That is normal.  I don't use the others so I don't have a comparison for those. 

Well that makes me feel better, thank you!

1 hour ago, bfroberts said:

 

As for your oils not mixing....I get that too from time to time with certain scents.  What temp are your adding your FO?  I heat to 185 - 190 and then add the FO while still on the heat source, stir a minute or so and then remove from the heat.  Seems to help a lot with those heavier oils.

185-190 And I even heated it a bit higher just to see if my temp gun was off and no go.

[bfroberts]

29 minutes ago, lovelyscents said:

Well that makes me feel better, thank you!

185-190 And I even heated it a bit higher just to see if my temp gun was off and no go.

I think you're flirting with trouble using 8% FO with some of those waxes.  I know there is conflicting info out there regarding max load, but 8% is getting close or exceeding the max for some of those, especially if it's a heavy oil.  If you can't get the oil to blend with a little increased heat and stirring, I'd say the problem is the FO load, not the wax.

[lovelyscents]

I know, I'm just going to try and only use higher percentage FO with blends, but that doesn't explain why 4630 can't hold it.  

[bfroberts]

1 hour ago, lovelyscents said:

I know, I'm just going to try and only use higher percentage FO with blends, but that doesn't explain why 4630 can't hold it.  

 

It just happens sometimes.  I use a blend of 4630/4625 and about 1.2oz FO PP for clams, and I have a Toasted Marshmallow that will seep every single time, even though my wax *should* hold it.  It's just one of those FO's that doesn't work well in my particular application.  I don't think there is anything wrong with your wax.  It just happens.