Frosted Bath Fizzy Question

[Moonstar]

You guys really have be inspired to try some bath fizzy's again. Ive made them in the past but didn't get the results I was looking for. I used a few recipes that came out 

great in terms of appearance but didn't get the fizzing etc I wanted. One had cocoa butter and the other recipe had oat powder or coconut milk powder ?

I did a Pinterest search + saw some donut looking ones with frosting in the middle. They said a meringue powder + a bit of powdered sugar was used ??? IDK 

but my first thought was "sugar in water that you'll be soaking in "???? Cant this cause a yeast infection ???? What else can be used besides this ... M & P ????

I think I'll maybe try bubble scoops first since it looks like it might be easier. Valentines is coming up and I always like to send something in to my sons school 

and have him help with packaging. I bought some cute Valentines paper dessert cups at Target today + thought Id use them if they turned out well :/ lol ! 

I ordered some Mad oils micas to use so I guess I'll need poly 80 as many have suggested. Ive seen lots of fizzys on Etsy that state they have cocoa + shea + almond oil

so how is this done ??? If these don't turn out for me  I'll just send in boxes of chocolate instead  lol ! 

[Jcandleattic]

Here is a pretty decent recipe floating around on facebook from a lady in Canada (Jennifer Pacella - she was kind enough to share). It's very very similar to the one that TallTayl posted a bit earlier, in another topic, I've use this one as a test, it works pretty well. Gets very hard very quick and fizzes, and spins and performs pretty good, but IMO not very skin conditioning. That's where the other oils would come in handy.  

The ones you've seen with the shea, cocoa. and almond are just the oils they use. 

 

You can also mix Cocoa butter or Shea butter (one or the other) 50/50 with baking soda, and that makes a nice drizzle or frosting topping on bath fizzies too. Once I perfect my bubble scoop recipe I'll post it. It needs some work. 

 

Jennifer Pacella's Recipe

6 cups baking soda
3 cups citric acid
1/4cup cornstarch
1/4cup Epsom salts (I use fine dead sea salts)
1 tablespoon of cream of tartar/kaolin clay mixed (1/2 tbls each)
2 tablespoon soybean oil (or light oil) (I use either Almond oil or Avocado oil)
1 table spoon poly 80
1 teaspoon colour (I use less and still get great color dispersion)
15ml fragrance (Check usage rates of EO's)

Spray with witch hazel until perfect consistency. Should get harder to mix and not fall apart when squished in your hand.

 

 

[Moonstar]

Thank you ! Id really like something skin conditioning though so I'll try your suggestion of 50/50 cocoa butter + baking soda  Cant wait for my Mad Oils order

to come in, I ended up getting 1# of Deviant :/  South Beach + Earl Grey tea were sold out as were many others. So I'll try a few more during her pre buy in Feb.

[8-GRAN-ONES]

here is my recipe..i like it for conditioning..

and it does bubble pretty good..

but the bombs do not get as hard as I wish..

weather does have a effect even on that..

 

15oz. baking soda

6 oz. epson salt

3 oz. citric acid

3 oz SLAS

1 oz corn starch

mix well

Add 2 oz. of the prepared mixture below..

 

1 oz. cocoa butter...( this is probably why they don't get hard enough..by reading Talltayl's post)

.5 oz of whatever type of oil you want

.5 oz poly 80

1 oz fragrance..

 

pick it apart..tell me what you think could be better..

i am always open to ideas..

[TallTayl]

Corn starch and poly 80 in my very early tests were the culprit for mine softening over time. Fewer additives the better. Those recipes that use Dead Sea salt are asking for trouble. Even sea salt attracts humidity and caused softening and weak fizz over time.

 

I used some a long while back from a very popular hand made indie seller that stayed hard with cocoa butter and other other oils with poly 80. Problem with those is they left an oil slick on my skin and tub. I had to shower then wash my slippery tub. 

[TallTayl]

The recipe above seems pretty high in butters and oils at 3%.

 

and really low on the citric. Usually bath bombs have a 2:1 proportion of baking soda to citric.

 

 

[Moonstar]

42 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Corn starch and poly 80 in my very early tests were the culprit for mine softening over time. Fewer additives the better. Those recipes that use Dead Sea salt are asking for trouble. Even sea salt attracts humidity and caused softening and weak fizz over time.

 

I used some a long while back from a very popular hand made indie seller that stayed hard with cocoa butter and other other oils with poly 80. Problem with those is they left an oil slick on my skin and tub. I had to shower then wash my slippery tub. 

What role does polysorbate 80 have in bath bomb / fizzy recipes 

 

[Moonstar]

From doing a quick internet search it says that poly 80 will help emulsify the oils with the water , creates some foam + helps cut down on any greasyness

on tub making it less slippery and helps disperse any colorants as well. Not sure how accurate this is, I only read one link . Any thoughts anyone ???? 

If you make these type of bath products do you use poly 80 or not. Please add why or why not. I love hearing different perspectives. Thank you  

 

 

[Jcandleattic]

1 minute ago, Moonstar said:

From doing a quick internet search it says that poly 80 will help emulsify the oils with the water , creates some foam + helps cut down on any greasyness

on tub making it less slippery and helps disperse any colorants as well. Not sure how accurate this is, I only read one link . Any thoughts anyone ???? 

If you make these type of bath products do you use poly 80 or not. Please add why or why not. I love hearing different perspectives. Thank you

This is exactly what it does. If no poly 80 is added and you use micas your colorant can (and will) just clump and float around on top of the water because it will not disperse correctly, if you use oils in your fizzies you will have an oil slick on your water because it will not emulsify with the water. When I use poly 80 vs not using it in my fizzies I get much greater foaming action than I do without it. 

I see no valid reason not to use it in your fizzies if you want to use micas, oils, and want foaming out of them. 

[8-GRAN-ONES]

Yes.. it makes it emulsify..

and not have a slippery tub..

or your body feel oily..

it will probably cut down 

on the bubbles..

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by 8-GRAN-ONES

[Moonstar]

Thanks Jcanndle  I was a little confused because TT mentioned that she's experienced a slippery tub ( above post) when using a bath bomb that included

cocoa butter + poly 80.  She mentioned it was from from a Indie seller, maybe it had too much cocoa butter + not enough poly 80 ???? Thats what prompted my 

internet search. Love this forum - everyone is so helpful  !

Edited January 11, 2017 by Moonstar

[Jcandleattic]

3 minutes ago, 8-GRAN-ONES said:

it will probably cut down 

on the bubbles..

 

My experience is the opposite. It adds to the bubbles (if using slsa) and adds foam - even without milk powder, but if adding milk powder (which I do) it intensifies the foaming action to almost double what it would be without it. 

[TallTayl]

Polysorbate80 is a surfactant. You can rub it into an oil stain on clothing to remove the oils.

 

poly80 will bubble in water, and if used at the right rate should emulsify oils in water. I found poly80 used at that rate will soften my fizzes. It is a double edged sword. 

 

SLSa is similar in function, but behaves differently in the bath bombs. 

 

The other side side of the equation is oils kill bubbles. 

[Moonstar]

TT poly 80 and polysorbate 80 are 2 different products , am I understanding this correctly ? If so, what is the difference + where can poly80 be purchased.

Ive seen polysorbate80 but assumed they were both the same ? Geez, how dumb on my part  

Edited January 11, 2017 by Moonstar

[Jcandleattic]

5 minutes ago, Moonstar said:

TT poly 80 and polysorbate 80 are 2 different products , am I understanding this correctly ? If so, what is the difference + where can poly80 be purchased.

Ive seen polysorbate80 but assumed they were both the same ? Geez, how dumb on my part  

No, they are the same thing. Just, the verbiage is shortened... 

[TallTayl]

Sorry for the shorthand. Polysorbate is often shortened to poly. 

 

@Moonstar and others considering making this type of product. Test a small amount of your oil and or butter with polysorbate80 or any other surfactant in a glass bowl or even your kitchen sink.

 

Use a glass bowl so you can see from the top and sides and warm, bath temp water:

Does the butter melt fully, or does it leave chunks of unmelted bits floating in the water?

If it melts, does a pool of oil form on the top like a little floating island?

Do droplets of oil form?

when you stick your hand in the bowl does the oil cling to your skin like a film?

When you dump it out, Does the oil stick to the sides of the bowl?

Does the bowl rinse away cleanly and without residue?

Is the bowl surface slick at all?

 

This is all what your tub will be like but on a potentially more dangerous scale. 

 

For a bath oil/butter melt, I would experiment with different surfactants as well as proportions of citric and baking soda to ensure it all melts quickly, evenly and disperses fully. I have slipped in a tub and it is a scary feeling. 

[8-GRAN-ONES]

Here is a picture of Some I recently made..

they hold there shape good..

but you can squeeze hard and they will break in your hand

[8-GRAN-ONES]

ok....i don't know where my picture went..

i will try again..

[Moonstar]

3 minutes ago, 8-GRAN-ONES said:

ok....i don't know where my picture went..

i will try again..

LMAO !!!!! 

[8-GRAN-ONES]

hopefully...this works this time..

[Moonstar]

The pics came up perfectly this time  Thanks for sharing this picture - wow those are great ! The yellow and peach + pink are my favorites, but all are pretty ! 

Im going to have to scroll back up + take a peek at your recipe again. Im trying to find the recipe I made before, it needs adjusting but I really liked the addition

of coconut milk powder but we shall see. You mention if you squeeze hard they will break in your hand, is this to to the cocoa butter you add ? Do you feel the

addition of the butter hinders fizz and does your tub get like an ice rink ? What scents are they ? 

Edited January 11, 2017 by Moonstar

[Moonstar]

1 hour ago, TallTayl said:

Sorry for the shorthand. Polysorbate is often shortened to poly. 

 

@Moonstar and others considering making this type of product. Test a small amount of your oil and or butter with polysorbate80 or any other surfactant in a glass bowl or even your kitchen sink.

 

Use a glass bowl so you can see from the top and sides and warm, bath temp water:

Does the butter melt fully, or does it leave chunks of unmelted bits floating in the water?

If it melts, does a pool of oil form on the top like a little floating island?

Do droplets of oil form?

when you stick your hand in the bowl does the oil cling to your skin like a film?

When you dump it out, Does the oil stick to the sides of the bowl?

Does the bowl rinse away cleanly and without residue?

Is the bowl surface slick at all?

 

This is all what your tub will be like but on a potentially more dangerous scale. 

 

For a bath oil/butter melt, I would experiment with different surfactants as well as proportions of citric and baking soda to ensure it all melts quickly, evenly and disperses fully. I have slipped in a tub and it is a scary feeling. 

I slipped once in the shower and yes, very scary. I actually hit my head on the wall + pulled my back. I can laugh about it now but I was hurtin for certain lol !

Ok, so now I know they are 1 in the same   thanks for clearing that up + good tip on using a glass bowl for testing. Any others besides the 80 that would work

or should I say work better ? 

[TallTayl]

Any emulsifier should work, like wax (hard to dissolve in tub I learned), SLS, SLSa, Sulfonated Castor (turkey red), liquid surfs used for shampoos, etc. 

 

i use several liquids i have on hand on hand for other products along with powdered surfs like SLSa, SCI, DLSS. 

 

Hit up swift crafty monkey's blog for ideas and how to test them. Without getting too technical, emulsifying (mixing) oils into water uses a calculation of the HLB (hydrophilic/Lipophilic Bond. Every oil, butter and additive has a different HLB value that tells you how much of an emulsifier (surfactant) such as polysorbate 80, etc. to fully mix into water without leaving blobs of oil.

 

in short, a molecule of oil is lipophilic (oil loving) and water is hydrophilic (water loving). Oil and water do not like to mix. Anyone who has made vinaigrette salad dressing watches as the mix separates before your every eyes.

 

 The emulsifiers/surfactants are Ike little tadpoles that have a water loving end and an oil loving end. They make it possible for the oils to slip into the water. Vinaigrette makers know to use either lecithin, egg yolk or even mustard to keep the mixture blended longer. Those additives are emulsifiers.

 

 Some emulsifiers are more powerful than others (like SLS and SLeS) taking very, very little of the emulsifier to make the mixing happen. Other weaker surfactants (like polysorbate 60, polysorbate 20, etc) require much more to mix the oils into the water. Those that require "more" to do the job are often considered "gentler" or "less harsh" because they don't clean oils away so efficiently.

 

we can reach the same result using trial and error with different amounts of polysorbate80 (or whatever), it just takes longer.