Main Recipes?

[Chefmom]

I've used Crisco and vegetable shortening in my soaps from the very beginning of my soap journey with great success.  I have not had the DOS issues that others are seeing, but that can also be how soaps are stored etc.  I'm a long term curer...so I've had soaps for years.  The worst cases of DOS I've ever had was from 100% lard soaps when I rendered the lard myself.  The mice also enjoyed a lot of that soap...
The other DOS I've had was from when I went several years without making soap and then wanted to make a batch and used an old bucket of palm oil.  The oil smelled fine....but the soap quickly went rancid. 

 

Years ago Crisco brand reformulated and it swept the cake decorating communities online that people were having issues with their tried and true buttercream recipes.  I quickly switched to store brand shortenings which still used the trans fat that Crisco had reformulated against.  With the new zero trans fats nationwide all shortening has now been reformulated with palm oil. So...I really didn't know what the new formulation would do with my soap and I was really irritated over the whole thing...tho I'm not really sure why.

 

I still haven't used the new formulations of vegetable shortening.  Instead I changed my formulations and have replaced shortening in my soaps with liquid soybean oil and soybean wax.  I read about a year ago how one of the soap blogs (I think) was making shaving soaps with soywax, and since soywax is really just ultra hydrogenated soy oil and vegetable shortening is a mixture of oils and partially and fully hydrogenated soy oil....hmmm.  So far...I am very pleased with the results and am still playing around with the exact ratios etc. 

 

I do like the wal mart tallow/palm shortening and it is my husband's favorite base in pine tar soap.  However he doesn't care for that base without the pine tar.  Go figure. 

 

I've never used canola oil, I was pleased with soy based oils I never moved onto some of the other "grocery store" available oils.  I do like safflower oil in my blends and I rarely see people talk about that one. 

 

The coolest thing about soaps is that there are so many different opinions.  It comes down to our skins needs, our local environments and our own experiments.  But...I don't think I would want to be a newbie these days....that might be information overload!!

[heartsong]

18 hours ago, WanderlustSoaps said:

 I currently get the Rooto brand 100% lye from true value hardware, its not the best price, but at $5.19 / pound its good for me while just starting out. 

 

 This is what I buy and free shipping works out to be $3.95 a pound...very clean and mixes instantly.

http://www.essentialdepot.com/product/NAOH-10-FOOD_GRADE.html

[WanderlustSoaps]

1 hour ago, heartsong said:

 

 This is what I buy and free shipping works out to be $3.95 a pound...very clean and mixes instantly.

http://www.essentialdepot.com/product/NAOH-10-FOOD_GRADE.html

 

I love essential depot, I have not used them for soaping yet but have used them for years for my pg and VG for ecig juices.  I was thinking of making a soap order this weekend when I get my "allowance" (money I get to spend no questions asked that doesn't come out of household finances).  I was thinking some butters, lye and maybe some FO/EO though I have not done research yet on their FO/EO to see what people think of them yet.

[puma52]

1 hour ago, WanderlustSoaps said:

 

I love essential depot, I have not used them for soaping yet but have used them for years for my pg and VG for ecig juices.  I was thinking of making a soap order this weekend when I get my "allowance" (money I get to spend no questions asked that doesn't come out of household finances).  I was thinking some butters, lye and maybe some FO/EO though I have not done research yet on their FO/EO to see what people think of them yet.

I totally agree w/Heartsong! I love Essential Depot's products! Their lye is the very best out there as far as I am concerned. So clean and pure and it is just wonderful!

Edited September 27, 2016 by puma52

[WanderlustSoaps]

On 9/26/2016 at 9:49 PM, WanderlustSoaps said:

 

Sponiebr, I have thought of swapping my OO for Canola a couple of times...

 

So Sponiebr, when I made this post I showed a picture from my excel file, by actually posting that pic it led me to find that at some point I had accidentally deleted huge chunks of data in my oil table, which then caused me to find a few other minor (but really difficult to correct) issues.  I had been happily using my spreadsheet for two weeks and did not notice any of these issues, but of course once I found one I found some others.  Anyway here is what the table should have looked like when comparing those two oils.

 

 

[iansmommaya]

There is a popular lye supplier that had many customers very unhappy with the quality of their lye. Essentially, there were many issues and their lye was not as pure as they said. MANY MANY soapers had problems with their lies.

 

I wasn't one of them. I buy my lye locally.

[Sponiebr]

7 hours ago, WanderlustSoaps said:

 

So Sponiebr, when I made this post I showed a picture from my excel file, by actually posting that pic it led me to find that at some point I had accidentally deleted huge chunks of data in my oil table, which then caused me to find a few other minor (but really difficult to correct) issues.  I had been happily using my spreadsheet for two weeks and did not notice any of these issues, but of course once I found one I found some others.  Anyway here is what the table should have looked like when comparing those two oils.

 

 

Jeeze... I think I'll pass on the canoodle (SP?) oil for the Lenoleic Acid value alone, as that looks a TAD prone to DOS... It actually didn't look too hideous in soapcalc with my formulation, but not anything I would seek out unless I had no other choice e.g.: 

"Honey? where's my jug of olive oil?"

"Oh... I threw it out."

"Why!?"  

"Because it was bad." 

"What makes you say that?"

"It was GREEN... Duh!!!"  

 

(That specific exchange never happened to me...  I was just giving an example... )

[Sponiebr]

On 9/27/2016 at 4:09 PM, heartsong said:

 

 This is what I buy and free shipping works out to be $3.95 a pound...very clean and mixes instantly.

http://www.essentialdepot.com/product/NAOH-10-FOOD_GRADE.html

I am utterly amazed at this site... Some deals are mind blowingly awesome, other are astronomically overpriced. 1kg of Argan oil for $28~ and 4 oz of Jojoba oil for $37~, whaaaaaaat? The 16 lbs of lye is an awesome deal, and so is the 5 lbs of shea butter, their KOH for 4 lbs. is $14.89, but 2 lbs. is $5.99... Interesting stuff... I may have to get in there and get some of that shea butter, argan oil, and some KOH, and poke around a bit more.  

[TallTayl]

For soap oils, Columbus Foods/Soapers Choice is a pretty good, reliable, price stable source. You can request copies of certificates of analysis for the lot numbers you buy.

 

a few experienced soaper friends recently purchased coconut oil from big lots to save $. The oil smelled fine to them, but their soap went rancid quickly. Sometimes bargains are no bargain  

 

@iansmommamaya - you remember correctly. That lye distributor had essentially a very, very bad supply of lye of a long while. seasoned Soapers were suddenly having separation issues and provided plenty of proof. Some of these Soapers had made soap for decades, to the tune of 1,000 bars a week. A chemist friend performed several titrations and discovered the product was quite bad.  they treated all of their unhappy customers with such disdain for complaining I swore to never buy from them. My locally sourced lye is all I use. I get the CoA and can rest assured it will always perform. 

[Jcandleattic]

Just now, TallTayl said:

@iansmommamaya - you remember correctly. That lye distributor had essentially a very, very bad supply of lye of a long while. seasoned Soapers were suddenly having separation issues and provided plenty of proof. Some of these Soapers had made soap for decades, to the tune of 1,000 bars a week. A chemist friend performed several titrations and discovered the product was quite bad.  they treated all of their unhappy customers with such disdain for complaining I swore to never buy from them. My locally sourced lye is all I use. I get the CoA and can rest assured it will always perform. 

Yep, I remember that too, and had purchased from them several times, but then the way they treated their customers, and the way they price gouge some of their products, that did me in. Never again. I now get my lye locally as well. 

[bfroberts]

9 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

For soap oils, Columbus Foods/Soapers Choice is a pretty good, reliable, price stable source. You can request copies of certificates of analysis for the lot numbers you buy.

 

a few experienced soaper friends recently purchased coconut oil from big lots to save $. The oil smelled fine to them, but their soap went rancid quickly. Sometimes bargains are no bargain  

 

@iansmommamaya - you remember correctly. That lye distributor had essentially a very, very bad supply of lye of a long while. seasoned Soapers were suddenly having separation issues and provided plenty of proof. Some of these Soapers had made soap for decades, to the tune of 1,000 bars a week. A chemist friend performed several titrations and discovered the product was quite bad.  they treated all of their unhappy customers with such disdain for complaining I swore to never buy from them. My locally sourced lye is all I use. I get the CoA and can rest assured it will always perform. 

 

 

The Butcher Boy brand coconut oil from Big Lots is from Columbus Foods.  I bought 4 gallons Tuesday, and all have ex. dates of 10/2018.  Do you think it is a lesser quality coconut oil?  Or maybe theirs was near expiration or maybe even a different brand?  Just wondering, because I've been using it for a long time and never had an issue.  When they don't have it in stock, I order from Soapers Choice.  I've never been able to tell a difference in the quality, but if there is an issue, I definitely need to be aware of it.

[TallTayl]

Columbus foods should be Columbus foods. Soapers choice is a division of Columbus. Looks like a nice long exp date. I would just practice good GMP as far as batch records to make sure long-term so you can identify all made from that ingredient source.

 

i don't know how or why things end up at big lots as far as food and such. The gallons she purchased had a shorter date. It's always a good idea to check! Who knows why they all went off in her case.  She could very well have made a production mistake . The only common denominator she noted was the one oil. Yours might be AOK. 

 

 

[Jcandleattic]

14 minutes ago, bfroberts said:

The Butcher Boy brand coconut oil from Big Lots is from Columbus Foods.  I bought 4 gallons Tuesday, and all have ex. dates of 10/2018.  Do you think it is a lesser quality coconut oil?  Or maybe theirs was near expiration or maybe even a different brand?  Just wondering, because I've been using it for a long time and never had an issue.  When they don't have it in stock, I order from Soapers Choice.  I've never been able to tell a difference in the quality, but if there is an issue, I definitely need to be aware of it.

As well as with TallTayl, I know a few soapers that used the big lots Coconut oil and had their soaps go bad. I've never bought from Big Lots, so have no idea, but I would say, beware. 

[bfroberts]

41 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Columbus foods should be Columbus foods. Soapers choice is a division of Columbus. Looks like a nice long exp date. I would just practice good GMP as far as batch records to make sure long-term so you can identify all made from that ingredient source.

 

i don't know how or why things end up at big lots as far as food and such. The gallons she purchased had a shorter date. It's always a good idea to check! Who knows why they all went off in her case.  She could very well have made a production mistake . The only common denominator she noted was the one oil. Yours might be AOK. 

 

 

 

Initially, I was leery of purchasing coconut oil at Big Lots, but when I saw "Columbus Foods" and their address on the label, I purchased it with no hesitation at all.  I buy several gallons every time they have it in stock,because it saves on shipping, plus I like the containers it's in.  When they don't have it, I order from Soapers Choice.  Now, I have hundreds of bars made with no way at all to know what was made with the BL oil and what was made with the SC oil.  I keep a good eye on things, and there hasn't been even a hint of DOS in any of my bars, so I think I'm OK to continue to use the oil.  This post just made my heart drop a little....LOL. 

 

Edited to add:  From here on out, I'll make a notation in my notes indicating which soaps are made with BL oil.  That way, if anything goes "off", I'll be able to trace it back to this oil and let everyone know.

Edited September 29, 2016 by bfroberts

[TallTayl]

It's always a good idea to track ingredient lots in products. I've thought about doing a mini article for traceability strategies, because you never know when something needs to be pulled. It is all part of GMP (good manufacturing principles) which we are all expected to follow as manufacturers.

 

i once had trouble with a fragrance I have used for years. In soap it formed hard, glass like crystals. The batches made with that bottle of FO never fully hardened and would not leather no matter how hard I tried. Did a sample batch set with all of the bottles in that shipment and sure enough two of the three bottles did the same. Boggles the mind. But reminds me why GMP is so important. 

[TallTayl]

Oh, and @bfroberts, never hesitate to call Columbus foods and Soapers choice. Their customer service is outstanding. Mike of Soapers Choice has spent hours on the phone with me over various issues.

[iansmommaya]

Columbus foods/Soapers choice really are rockstars.

[Candybee]

I buy my oils from Soapers Choice. Their prices and shipping are the best and I can order in much larger bulk quantities than I was able to before. My lye I get from ED. I love their packaging practices and they have good deals if you order the larger bulk quantities. Last time I ordered 32 lbs of lye but I go through it so fast I may have to double that amount.

[KrazeKelly]

I also buy most of my oils and butters from Soapers Choice. I still buy my lye thru ED, although some had issues, I didn't and I love their prices on lye. 

 

Kelly

[Candybee]

Is ED the company that is being talked about here? I'd like to know which one had the lye issues and when that happened.

[KrazeKelly]

30 minutes ago, Candybee said:

Is ED the company that is being talked about here? I'd like to know which one had the lye issues and when that happened.

 

Yes, I believe so and it was a year or two ago. I was buying from them then also but didn't have issues although many did. 

[WanderlustSoaps]

13 hours ago, Sponiebr said:

I am utterly amazed at this site... Some deals are mind blowingly awesome, other are astronomically overpriced. 1kg of Argan oil for $28~ and 4 oz of Jojoba oil for $37~, whaaaaaaat? The 16 lbs of lye is an awesome deal, and so is the 5 lbs of shea butter, their KOH for 4 lbs. is $14.89, but 2 lbs. is $5.99... Interesting stuff... I may have to get in there and get some of that shea butter, argan oil, and some KOH, and poke around a bit more.  

 

Sponie, one thing you have to watch on ED and why sometimes their prices seem all over the place is some packages have free shipping and some don't.  So let's use your KOh example, 4 lbs for $14.89 vs 2lbs for $5.99, I bet the 4 lbs ships free while the 2lbs does not.

[iansmommaya]

7 hours ago, Candybee said:

Is ED the company that is being talked about here? I'd like to know which one had the lye issues and when that happened.

 

 

On other forums both stand alone and FB soaping groups there is a lot of information about the difficulties with the lye batches that were sold, what the problems where, etc.

[Jcandleattic]

11 hours ago, iansmommaya said:

On other forums both stand alone and FB soaping groups there is a lot of information about the difficulties with the lye batches that were sold, what the problems where, etc.

 

It wasn't even really that they had bad batches of lye for me. I'm sure they didn't manufacture the lye themselves, and probably got a bad batch or bad couple of batches themselves.Which totally can happen.. Honest (maybe) mistake, BUT for me, it was more the way they handled it, and basically said that anyone having problems was formulating wrong, stupid (no they didn't SAY that, but IMO they definitely implied it) and that the soapers must not have known what they were doing. 

I had been using them for a very long time, had never had problems, even when all that hit, and even finished up the amount of lye I had from them (which was a lot, like 64lbs) and still, no problems, but it so irritated me the handling of that one particular problem, that I have a hard time purchasing from them - if I do at all. 

[iansmommaya]

3 hours ago, Jcandleattic said:

 

It wasn't even really that they had bad batches of lye for me. I'm sure they didn't manufacture the lye themselves, and probably got a bad batch or bad couple of batches themselves.Which totally can happen.. Honest (maybe) mistake, BUT for me, it was more the way they handled it, and basically said that anyone having problems was formulating wrong, stupid (no they didn't SAY that, but IMO they definitely implied it) and that the soapers must not have known what they were doing. 

I had been using them for a very long time, had never had problems, even when all that hit, and even finished up the amount of lye I had from them (which was a lot, like 64lbs) and still, no problems, but it so irritated me the handling of that one particular problem, that I have a hard time purchasing from them - if I do at all. 

 

 

Yep.