Another double wicked small candle

[cvndlechix]

OK so I had to post these pics! This is another candle I made a week or so ago using the half pint jar, double wicked ECO4, coconut 83, and Angel Baby scent (a sample oil). At that time I still wanted to see if I could double wick the small containers but with this candle I made sure to put the wicks closely together thinking about what others said on previous post about them being far apart and not centered. For some reason I figured having them spaced apart will be better than having the wicks so close together. So, I lit this candle today at 9am just to see if it will do the same thing the 3 candles I burned a couple of days ago did. In my opinion it's burning well ! There isn't a deep melt pool in the vast 3 hours it's been burning the flame isn't large the jar isn't hot either just warm where the melt pool is. Could it be the fact of me wicking the ECO4's close together? 

Edited September 7, 2016 by cvndlechix

[KrisS]

Others will likely have a different viewpoint...

 

Way back in the day when I was doing this for real instead of relearning, if I hit full melt pool on my first burn, especially under the four hour mark, it typically meant I was over-wicked.   First burn, the jar typically didn't get hot.   However, as it burned down into the jar, the jar began holding more heat.  The lower it burned, the more heat the jar held, which meant the meltpool would be significantly deeper than it should when I was at the half-way point on the candle.

 

Your mileage may vary, and your situation may be different.   However, that's what I experienced back in the day.

[Trappeur]

I agree with Kris's viewpoint as that is generally the rule for me to this day

 

The fact that you have moved your wicks closer together has helped in the jar not being excessively hot (at this moment so far).  The melt pool for this small canning jar looks good also but it will be getting deeper on your next burns as like what Kris said, the further down the candle wax burns into the jar, the hotter the jar is going to get.  And also any jar like the canning jars especially which have a shoulder, these jars retain the heat and get much hotter faster than a regular straight wall jar. 

 

It's good that you do all your testings and find out for yourself what others say might or might not happen.   Then you will know.  This very small jar is a 1 wick jar no problem.  And don't forget you need to let your candle harden for hours inbetween your testings to get accurate results.  When I do my testings, I usually wait till the next day.

 

Trappeur

[Jcandleattic]

I can tell by just looking at that candle in the pic that this candle is overwicked. Especially if this is the first burn. My candles never reach full melt pool on the first burn, unless I burn them for 12 hours or longer. It usually takes about 3 sometimes 4 burns before I reach a FMP. 

IMO by the time that burn reaches the midway point you will have a deeper melt pool and most likely a pretty hot container. 

Try going down to 1 wick. If you just LOVE the way 2 wicks look, try using the smallest wicks available, and try again. 

[cvndlechix]

Understood @Jcandleattic @Trappeur @Kris S  ? For so long I figured a FMP on first burn was necessary I sware I've read it somewhere BUT I'm aware you all have been doing this for sometime so I respect your advice back to the lab I go ! Thanks again all for looking at this thread as well... 

[TallTayl]

Do you think consumers look at multi wicked small candles with suspicion? 

[cvndlechix]

Never came to mind, I have seen a couple of candles that were multi wicked and they were small containers the type of jars varied. Overall, I figured to test it out myself just to see but thinking it would cause suspicion didn't come to mind. @TallTayl

[wthomas57]

The smallest candle I have ever considered double wicking.... and still haven't actually done anything more than just consider it... is Tumblers (or status jars).

Those are 3" in diameter so significantly larger than a small mason. Even those I would be afraid of too much heat or too quick of a melt pool unless I had the PERFECT wick combo. Masons would be even worse since they hold the heat in even more. Although, the glass is thicker than tumblers, so you have that going for you. Less brittle.

 

Now... regarding melt pool. Everyone is right... dont aim to get a full MP on the first burn or two. That is candle/container homocide. Sure looks great that you got a full pool early on, but its only bad news from there. there should be a rim or some hang up until you get a little further down. When I first started, I read some bad advice as well about full MP's early on.  Besides many people test at half full and that is why they are making those statements.

 

That being said, double wicks candles WILL get a quicker melt pool. Its one of the "reasons" people do it, because it throws fragrance quicker and often stronger. But candle doesn't last as long either. However, just because you get a full mp quicker doesn't mean you should be getting full deep melt pools right away. Most importantly, I just dont see WHY you would wanna double wick a small mason? One wick does just as good.

 

The reason I consider doing it for tumblers, in case you are wondering, is because tumblers can be awfully difficult to wick sometimes with one wick depending on the wax. Sometimes, I find that to avoid tunneling throughout I have to wick up to a size that is ultimately too big and causes other problems. But not doing it causes tunneling and/or poor HT. So.. I have CONSIDERED double wicking small wicks to see how it does. I imagine it will end up being too hot though in the end. My best bet will be to use cooler burning wicks like Zincs or wicks that give me tons of incremental sizing (like premiers) to help me find the perfect size.

Edited September 8, 2016 by wthomas57

[Jcandleattic]

4 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Do you think consumers look at multi wicked small candles with suspicion? 

Personally, I think probably not. Unless they know a lot about making/burning candles. I know before I started making them, I never would have given a double wicked candle a second thought. 

[wthomas57]

I dont think customers look at anything other than if they like the jar and how it smells.

[kandlekrazy]

8 minutes ago, wthomas57 said:

I dont think customers look at anything other than if they like the jar and how it smells.

 

Couldn't have said it better!

[TallTayl]

Huh. People always question my multi wick candles, and they are the bigger ones. My people must be used to seeing single wicks do the job.

 

Have also had people remark at the size of wicks in my beeswax candles. Customer expectations are different than we think sometimes.

[bfroberts]

I was creeping on various candle websites last night and noticed that a lot of people describe their multi-wick candles as having "increased throw" because of the use of multiple wicks.  Most all of them were smaller containers....status jars and tumblers, that do not need more than one wick. 

[wthomas57]

I do think the throw is "increased" as in.... stronger quicker. But of course. bigger faster melt pool generally. But the candles dont last as long.

its a trade off.

 

Personally, my interests in multi wicking is simple to help with the coverage when needed. That's it.

[TallTayl]

31 minutes ago, wthomas57 said:

I do think the throw is "increased" as in.... stronger quicker. But of course. bigger faster melt pool generally. But the candles dont last as long.

its a trade off.

 

Personally, my interests in multi wicking is simple to help with the coverage when needed. That's it.

Do you notice how the scent of really hot wicked candles fizzles out long before the wax burns off?

[wthomas57]

2 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Do you notice how the scent of really hot wicked candles fizzles out long before the wax burns off?

 

I personally haven't noticed it because I use zincs mostly and that doesn't happen with those. But I do hear complaints

from people who use cotton wicks of losing scent quicker than others. Same with some of the wicks in the candles at the big box stores. 

Most of those are cotton or similar and dont throw fragrance as long. So that is definitely true.

 

A little off topic, But Iv'e also heard that the candles in the big box stores like

WM also have two separate pours to their candles. Top half pour is normal with FO from 6% and up. while, the first pour in the second half is like 2 or 3% to save money. 

Could just be a nasty rumor, but I could see it. And that may also be the reason they lose scent over time

[TallTayl]

Those colors between pours would need to be really spot on to not be noticeable. :-/ 

[wthomas57]

That was my thinking.. and there were other reasons I found it hard to believe. Plus... the extra work to do that isn't worth it in my opinion.

So I am sure it was just a rumor

[jfear]

4 hours ago, wthomas57 said:

The smallest candle I have ever considered double wicking.... and still haven't actually done anything more than just consider it... is Tumblers (or status jars).

Those are 3" in diameter so significantly larger than a small mason. Even those I would be afraid of too much heat or too quick of a melt pool unless I had the PERFECT wick combo. Masons would be even worse since they hold the heat in even more. Although, the glass is thicker than tumblers, so you have that going for you. Less brittle.

 

Now... regarding melt pool. Everyone is right... dont aim to get a full MP on the first burn or two. That is candle/container homocide. Sure looks great that you got a full pool early on, but its only bad news from there. there should be a rim or some hang up until you get a little further down. When I first started, I read some bad advice as well about full MP's early on.  Besides many people test at half full and that is why they are making those statements.

 

That being said, double wicks candles WILL get a quicker melt pool. Its one of the "reasons" people do it, because it throws fragrance quicker and often stronger. But candle doesn't last as long either. However, just because you get a full mp quicker doesn't mean you should be getting full deep melt pools right away. Most importantly, I just dont see WHY you would wanna double wick a small mason? One wick does just as good.

 

The reason I consider doing it for tumblers, in case you are wondering, is because tumblers can be awfully difficult to wick sometimes with one wick depending on the wax. Sometimes, I find that to avoid tunneling throughout I have to wick up to a size that is ultimately too big and causes other problems. But not doing it causes tunneling and/or poor HT. So.. I have CONSIDERED double wicking small wicks to see how it does. I imagine it will end up being too hot though in the end. My best bet will be to use cooler burning wicks like Zincs or wicks that give me tons of incremental sizing (like premiers) to help me find the perfect size.

 

Well said. I have been testing with 3 inch tumblers for a month or so now, Peak's clearance. I bought them because they appear to be an easy enough container to wick; this could not be further from the truth! These tumblers are tough. I was desperate and I tried double-wicking with HTP 52s, the melt pool was achieved far too quickly on the first burn and the glass was way too hot further down the jar. I then tried the 41s but they had incredibly weak flames. I finally decided on a single wick, a 93 and although I get a little hang on the first 2-3 burns, it ends up being perfect further down the jar.

 

I'm really quite happy with the single wick because the double-wicks in a smaller jar seem aesthetically off to me, they also burn far too fast even with the smallest wicks being used.

Edited September 8, 2016 by jfear

[Trappeur]

2 hours ago, wthomas57 said:

I dont think customers look at anything other than if they like the jar and how it smells.

Ditto also.....they don't look at frosting, don't look at wet spots they don't look at cottage cheese tops,  hell they don't even notice if the wick is off center!  Oh yea, they look at price though......so you get what you pay for...

 

That's my input!

 

Trappeur

Edited September 8, 2016 by Trappeur

[wthomas57]

18 minutes ago, Trappeur said:

Ditto also.....they don't look at frosting, don't look at wet spots they don't look at cottage cheese tops,  hell they don't even notice if the wick is off center!  Oh yea, they look at price though......so you get what you pay for...

 

That's my input!

 

Trappeur

 

EXACTLY. Wetspots used to drive me nuts. I was doing all sorts of things to "cure" them. And ya know what.. it actually worked. It's awesome. However, its not worth the time and effort... cause they dont care. And as soon as you ship them, shelf them, or hand them over.... a change in temp is going to cause the wet spots to come back at some point. Often after the first burn. So I stopped caring about that focused on areas that matter. 

 

I dont do a lot of soy yet, and I'm sure the frosting would annoy me early on. But I wont sweat over it. Off center wicks do irritate me. Moreso because of affecting the burn.

 

Price!!!! YEEEESSSS! Struggle with this ALL THE TIME

[Trappeur]

Oh yes Thomas, now the frosting I could not deal with.  Years back I used to color all my candles (I use soy) and then when I would go into the shops that sold my candles I would walk over to where my candles were displayed and boy did it frost my hiney when I saw what my colored candles looked like all starting to frost......I only had 1 shop ask me to fix them because of that reason and I did fix them just that 1 time.....and then I decided no more colored and went to au naturelle and I've never looked back on it.  I have never had 1 store ask me about doing colored candles, not once......and if they did, the answer right up front would definitely be no.  I know it's a characteristic trait of soy, but they really look old and nasty looking when they start to frost, but as much as i tried to find a way to stop it, like you said eventually someday, sometime down the road, it would reappear and to me my candles are my signature and I take pride in what I do and I solved my problem and everyone was here on in happy and I too was a happy camper.

 

Trappeur

[wthomas57]

Agreed. I think no color is way to go with soy. Which soy do you use mostly by the way? 

[Trappeur]

464 I use.....I used to use c3 and on occasions still do.

 

Trappeur

[Jcandleattic]

4 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Huh. People always question my multi wick candles, and they are the bigger ones. My people must be used to seeing single wicks do the job.

 

Have also had people remark at the size of wicks in my beeswax candles. Customer expectations are different than we think sometimes.

I've never been asked once about my double wicks in my candles. It's weird how different areas have different reactions.