ubure Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 This is not the first time I have come across customers who decide to start their own candle business without ever having made a single candle. They usually order some stuff from me and start asking questions, usually when something goes wrong with their first candles. Others order supplies and tell me their customers are waiting for this and that fragrance they have just ordered (for the first time) and need the oils really fast as the candles are already ordered and sold. I always want to ask them if they didn't test fragrances before they sell them but they don't think that is funny so I let them. But today I had a customer who really takes the cake: he ordered 100 wicks of the same size. I told him that this size was on backorder and that I could offer an alternative if he told me the diameter of his jar. He said it was 8 cm, so the size he had chosen was much too big (a Stabilo KST 26! And ladies and gentlemen, I DO have a wick chart on my website, with a link at my wick product page). I told him that he should try a 16 and see how that works for him. He told me he uses essential oils and we got to talk a bit. He seemed very unexperienced with candle making and said he appreciated my help. I asked if he planned on selling the candles and then he told me he already did. Said they (maybe he and his girlfriend, don't know, doesn't matter anyway) made a few sample candles and so it started. Gave me a link to their website which is exquisitely done I have to say. Candles look good, are really pricey (about $ 80) and have some descriptions that make me scratch my head....cucumber, apricot, lilac etc. Have to ask him where he found those exclusive essential oils. So he orders the wrong wick because he has no idea what to look for, is selling candles he has never made before and doesn't know if they work at all and I spent about 2 years pouring and testing and pouring and testing, over and over again until I had a candle I was sure was good enough to sell - am I an idiot? It is so easy as these examples show! I really don't know what to say to these people...after all they are buying my supplies. But this is ridiculous. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 This is how a new candle business fails! Customers won't be repeat customers if the candles are crap! You could steer them to a candle making group or forum if you really want to help them. But its up to them to do the work on their own and not your responsibility. You can only lead them. The research and development work is up to them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siren12 Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 wow, the only reasons I started to sell candles is because 1) my friends and family kept asking me and 2) i wanted to keep making them and knew that i would have too many candles to give away. It also took me about 2 years of making them for myself and family to decide to sell them and i only take orders of ones i have made before i would no way want to sell a candle to someone when i have never made it before. Just adding color to my candles has changed the wick i need. I have so many testers going right now its frustrating feeling like i am wasting supplies but its necessary. Also $80 a candle! shoot wish i could get those prices. i wish them luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubure Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 yes, it is strange how some people deal with something. About those 80 bucks: I'm working on a project right now, together with a professional perfumer. He created several perfumes for a high-end clothing company and then I helped getting those fragrances candle compatible, so to say. He is making the perfumes and the candle fragrances, I make the candles. There are absolutley gorgeous round candle boxes, custom made, of course, a small flyer which comes with the candle inside the candle box, and beautiful labels for the candle and the boxes. These are real professionals and I am so grateful to have the opportunity to work with these people - can use all my knowledge now and still learn so much with every batch I pour. And: they charge about the same as this customer does. Only this is professional quality work from 5 different sources ( the ordering company, the perfumer, the label company, the box company and me). So again, this is ridiculous. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siren12 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 ubure- sounds like those will be beautiful candles, if i could make candles as a full time job thats how i would want to make them. All packaged and labeled beautifully with custom scents. they sound wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubure Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) I have to say that it is not as easy as it sounds, even if it is a highly prestigious project and of course important for me. Just today I had to justifiy my new invoice for the candle company and my new invoice for the perfumer. When it comes to payment they all search for mistakes etc., especially the perfumer is always suspicious about the amounts of perfume I need for the candles (maybe he thinks I'm using it as snuff or whatever). Seems I am the weakest part in that project, the stupid little candlemaker, but I don't care. I just don't like justifying myself for writing invoices for the work I have done. Maybe I should offer my own candles for 80 bucks :-) and work on my own again. Edited June 9, 2016 by ubure 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstar Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 $80.00 I feel is a price point that many can't afford or if they can they're the consumer that purchases Jo Malone -Diptyque etc. Personally, even if I could afford it - I wouldn't spend $80 -$100 on a candle, thats just silly - imho Im like you though - i don't like justifying myself to anyone lol ! What your doing - private perfumer etc is way above my head but kudos to you for figuring all this out. I wouldn't even know where to begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandlekrazy Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 You can't fix stupid. Help if he asks for it but if he doesn't ask leave it alone and let him buy what he wants. Anyone that makes a few sample candles and starts selling is in for disaster at some point. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstar Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 kandlekrazy i couldn't of said it any better I guess its the i want it all NOW generation lol ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 It Is easy to start a candle business. And a soap business. And any other business with low barriers to entry. The the hard part is maintaining the business to keep it viable. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubure Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 15 hours ago, Moonstar said: $80.00 I feel is a price point that many can't afford or if they can they're the consumer that purchases Jo Malone -Diptyque etc. Personally, even if I could afford it - I wouldn't spend $80 -$100 on a candle, thats just silly - imho Im like you though - i don't like justifying myself to anyone lol ! What your doing - private perfumer etc is way above my head but kudos to you for figuring all this out. I wouldn't even know where to begin. Just what I think! Way too expensive but it is a luxury clothing company (cashmere etc) and they just have to charge that much, also because that candle's costs are that high! Packaging alone costs a fortune. I'm still in the process of figuring it all out, as well as the perfumer is - we both never had projects this big, and we both have learned a lot so far. Which I am grateful for. And my hubby reminded me of my daddy who had a builder company. He also had to justify each and every turn of the hand. people are like that: they order and order and then they are surprised that it all costs money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubure Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 15 hours ago, kandlekrazy said: You can't fix stupid. Help if he asks for it but if he doesn't ask leave it alone and let him buy what he wants. Anyone that makes a few sample candles and starts selling is in for disaster at some point. well said. I was really surprised about what he told me and I guess I somehow told him that, but I was careful anyway. He is a customer and who am I to teach him if he knows better? Had another customer yesterday with almost the same situation, but at least they don't have started selling because they have seen that it is not so easy to make a candle smell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I don't think it is a matter of being "stupid" as much as it is "inexperienced". I don't consider myself stupid, but I sure gained experience by actually making products! A LOT of products. When other people started with their "educating" it felt less like they were helping than "they" thought, often because the words they used just didn't make any sort of sense whether instructional or business. Everyone finds their way eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubure Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 On 10.6.2016 at 7:06 AM, ubure said: Just what I think! Way too expensive but it is a luxury clothing company (cashmere etc) and they just have to charge that much, also because that candle's costs are that high! Packaging alone costs a fortune. I'm still in the process of figuring it all out, as well as the perfumer is - we both never had projects this big, and we both have learned a lot so far. Which I am grateful for. And my hubby reminded me of my daddy who had a builder company. He also had to justify each and every turn of the hand. people are like that: they order and order and then they are surprised that it all costs money. kind of OT fromt he original post, but I'm angry today: still waiting for my money from both invoices from last week. Okay, one week waiting time is not much, but all that time that is wasted for me with all the emails they sent asking for this and that info after I sent my invoice and no they still wait with the payment. The perfumer is miffed, I suppose, and doesn't pay my invoice as well. He normally pays immediately. I hate this business with too many people involved. I'm clearly the one who needs her money the most (regarding sales and profit) and they let me wait. Tomorrow I will send a reminder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubure Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 Okay, once again back to this special customer. He had ordered his 100 wicks last week and today started a PayPal conflict because he hasn't received his wicks yet. Again: why do I put delivery times etc. on my website? It also says I only ship once a week and besides this he is still within normal delivery time. He says he is hard pressured for time...he has probably sold some candles without even having tried the kind of wicks he ordered from me. So I answered and told him that I would do him - and his business - a favour and cancel the order and also refund his money. I also told him to order several different wick sizes and start testing before ordering larger amounts (and I don't suppose he will order from me!) and then slow down a bit, for his candles' sake. I know, not an objective and neutral or professional answer, but I'm fed up with people like him and I won't kiss anybody's a...anymore just to sell something. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsmakinsoap Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Wow, starting a paypal conflict over such a short time frame--I just don't understand some people. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisS Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 On 6/16/2016 at 7:23 AM, ubure said: Okay, once again back to this special customer. He had ordered his 100 wicks last week and today started a PayPal conflict because he hasn't received his wicks yet. Again: why do I put delivery times etc. on my website? It also says I only ship once a week and besides this he is still within normal delivery time. He says he is hard pressured for time...he has probably sold some candles without even having tried the kind of wicks he ordered from me. So I answered and told him that I would do him - and his business - a favour and cancel the order and also refund his money. I also told him to order several different wick sizes and start testing before ordering larger amounts (and I don't suppose he will order from me!) and then slow down a bit, for his candles' sake. I know, not an objective and neutral or professional answer, but I'm fed up with people like him and I won't kiss anybody's a...anymore just to sell something. Necro thread, but sometimes the best thing you can do is simply suggest your customer go somewhere else. At my day job, I've started tracking client challenges and the time spent addressing them. I've found that the ones with the smallest profit margins are the most challenging. If you're spending an exorbitant amount of time on someone who is very low profit, your time is often better spend marketing and finding a new client where your efforts are rewarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 2 hours ago, KrisS said: Necro thread, but sometimes the best thing you can do is simply suggest your customer go somewhere else.... I've found that the ones with the smallest profit margins are the most challenging. If you're spending an exorbitant amount of time on someone who is very low profit, your time is often better spend marketing and finding a new client where your efforts are rewarded. All very true! This is part of what messed things up with small candle/soap manufacturers, especially fragrance houses. We were too expensive to maintain for the hassle. 🤪 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I say to He## with him ...you dodged a bullet Ubure and with that stress out of the way you can concentrate on more important things. Now about his business....I have found over the years that customers are really not that good at recognizing a perfect candle (sorry customers your just not)...sadly only we are obsessed with melt pools ...wicks ..and temperatures of glass about to explode...because it is our business to do so. Sooo I suspect he may not go out of business as fast as we may like....lots of people could be convinced that its a great product...after all they paid 80.00....there are plenty of crappy candlemakers selling crappy candles and making a few bucks. If we could educate our customers ...hmmm ...maybey that's the route we need to take....just saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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