Masterbatch

[Jcandleattic]

I just got finished masterbatching 75lbs of oils. I am pooped. It takes soo long, but so worth it (to me) not to have to weigh out each oil every time I want to soap, and just weigh a batch of masterbatch each time. (for instance - tomorrow I will only have to weigh out 32 oz of slush from my MB bucket instead of 7 individual oils) 

 

I always wait til the last minute to masterbatch too. LOL I only had 8oz left from my last big MB and with my friend coming tomorrow I needed to make some up... 

 

I also mb my lye solution as well, at a 50/50 ratio, but only do that in 4lb increments, and didn't have to do it this time.  

 

how many other Masterbatchers do we have here? 

[SuzyK]

I don't masterbatch with soap but I do make master batches of my lip balm base and solid lotion base.   I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to master batch my body butter and sugar scrubs or even how to do it. lol

[Jcandleattic]

I don't masterbatch with soap but I do make master batches of my lip balm base and solid lotion base.   I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to master batch my body butter and sugar scrubs or even how to do it. lol

If you can figure it out, I would bet it would be worth it. I love it from a production aspect. The more masterbatch I have, the quicker I can go. I make small batches of soap 2-3 lbs usually is all, so I can make about 10-15 batches a day if I have enough masterbatch made up.  

[TallTayl]

I master batch just about everything. Or, better said, i make my own bases of all non-soap stuff, and master batch oils in single serve containers.

My soap formula is heavy on hard oils, high in stearic. Unless i can votate it as it cools the stearic settles out too much. I make up 10 lb batches in pails so i can just grab a pail and go. My lye is used scorching hot to melt the oils. The pails are made up when i melt the new bucket of palm oil. I'd rather touch that stuff only once.

[Candybee]

I really need to start masterbatching as I'm at the point where I can't keep up with replacing soap running out of stock. One of the things I also want to learn is how to MB my lye.

 

I typically use a 50/50% solution so I should be able to MB that. But I have some questions.

 

How much lye can you MB without it becoming too volatile to handle? (too hot). Can I use one of those white plastic pails my oils come in? The pails hold about a gallon of oil. You know the pails the CO and PKO and PO come in. I've been saving them to MB.

 

Also, with the lye and water mixed together for my lye solution, what would be the weight of lye solution I pour out for my soap batch? For example, my main soap batch recipe call for 8oz lye. How do you figure the solution weight to use?

[Jcandleattic]

Okay, first yes, you can use those little pails, that's what I use. Anything that is HDPE 5 can be used. (and I think 2 - you know the number in the little triangle? use that number)

Once it's cooled off, I pour it into a VERY WELL cleaned out liquid laundry jug. (which is why I only do 4lbs at a time) 

 

I wear my respirator when mixing, but I mix 4lbs of water and 4lbs of lye together. (if I'm going to add silk to my masterbatch I usually do it here as well so that it will dissolve because I soap RT - lye too)  

 

If your recipe calls for 8oz lye you would use 8oz lye solution - (you will have 8oz lye plus 8oz water - the lye is just already dissolved in the solution) 

Say your recipe calls for 8oz lye and 16oz water - you would use 8oz lye solution with an additional 8oz water. There is a simple equation you can use but it eludes me now. but if you typically discount and only use a 50/50 solution already, then you would only use the 8oz solution. 

 

I may not be explaining it right, but this is how I do it and I have NEVER had a problem. 

I have set my SM3 to know I use a 50/50 solution though, so it does all the math for me and tells me how much additional water to use as well as how much lye solution. 

 

Masterbatching has been one of the best things I have ever done! 

[Candybee]

Thanks! That helps a lot. I wasn't sure how much 8oz of lye + 8oz of distilled water weigh together. I thought the addition of lye would make the water slightly heavier but wasn't sure.

 

I'm not worried about the rest of the liquid as I print out the soapcalc recipe and always soap with the recipe in front of me.

 

BTW-- have you noticed that soapcalc now has the INCI names for your recipe? I print that out too. Its cool that you have the info already printed out for you when you go to list the ingredients on your labels.

[TallTayl]

I would use a bottle versus a pail for master batched lye.

The pails are hard to seal well. Spillage, evaporation, etc are high risks with a pail. Nalgene is about the best, but The gallon HDPE jugs that soapers choice sends oils in work very well. I leave them in a deep pail when not in use to protect them further from accidental spillage.

I make up a gallon at a time in a deep sink using a bowl to mix. It gets transferred into a jug once it is cool enough to handle.

[TallTayl]

In a 50% lye solution 8 oz is 4 oz of lye and 4 oz of water.

If soapcalc says you need 8 oz of lye, you need 16 weighed ounces of the predissolved solution (8 oz lye plus 8 oz water).

[Candybee]

In a 50% lye solution 8 oz is 4 oz of lye and 4 oz of water.

If soapcalc says you need 8 oz of lye, you need 16 weighed ounces of the predissolved solution (8 oz lye plus 8 oz water).

 

So, for example, if I masterbatch a 50/50 lye solution and make enough for a gallon (128oz) I would use:

 

64oz lye + 64oz water = 128 oz lye solution

 

When I am ready to use the lye solution, if I need 8oz lye + 8oz water, I pour out 16 oz for my soap?

 

Or-- the masterbatch lye solution will give me enough to make 8 batches of soap for my recipe.

 

Also, is this too much to masterbatch at one time? Will 64oz of lye get too hot? Maybe I need to make half that amount at a time.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Candybee

[Jcandleattic]

Thanks! That helps a lot. I wasn't sure how much 8oz of lye + 8oz of distilled water weigh together. I thought the addition of lye would make the water slightly heavier but wasn't sure.

 

I'm not worried about the rest of the liquid as I print out the soapcalc recipe and always soap with the recipe in front of me.

 

BTW-- have you noticed that soapcalc now has the INCI names for your recipe? I print that out too. Its cool that you have the info already printed out for you when you go to list the ingredients on your labels.

Yeah it's nice. SM3 has always had that and I LOVE it. It's great for labels. (if you use them. I sell my bars nekkid LOL) 

[Candybee]

I've been using cigar labels for my CP soap and just using the common names for the oils and additives. I think if I want to move forward with my biz I should start using the INCI names on all my labels. I already use the INCI names on B&B stuff like my lip balms and lotion.

[Jcandleattic]

In a 50% lye solution 8 oz is 4 oz of lye and 4 oz of water.

If soapcalc says you need 8 oz of lye, you need 16 weighed ounces of the predissolved solution (8 oz lye plus 8 oz water).

YES. I had it a bit wrong. OOPS, so sorry. When I sit down and actually do all the math I can get it, but thank goodness for shortcuts! I'm so glad my SM3 figures all that math out for me. 

Thank you for correcting this for CB. I'd hate so see her ruin a batch because of my bad math.  

[TallTayl]

Answering candybees question in the <<<. >>> below.

So, for example, if I masterbatch a 50/50 lye solution and make enough for a gallon (128oz) I would use:

 64oz lye + 64oz water = 128 oz lye solution <<<yes>>>

 

When I am ready to use the lye solution, if I need 8oz lye + 8oz water, I pour out 16 oz for my soap? <<<yes. All by weight, of course. The density of the water is different with the dissolved lye in there.>>>

 

Or-- the masterbatch lye solution will give me enough to make 8 batches of soap for my recipe. <<<i don't know your formula, so just by the math if your formula needs 16 ounces combined weight of water and lye, then the 128 ounces divided by 16 total makes for 8 batches of soap. >>>

 

Also, is this too much to masterbatch at one time? Will 64oz of lye get too hot? Maybe I need to make half that amount at a time.

<<<i would use a heavy pail in the sink that is at least double the volume of what you need. So if you want to mix a gallon, then a 2 gallon pail to mix. Not too big or it will be hard to pour without difficulty. Stir often as it cools to ensure it all dissolves. To help cooling along, you can do an ice water bath in the sink. I do a gallon with no trouble this way.

Let it cool then carefully transfer to the smaller jug with tight fitting lid.

I would also suggest slightly more water than 50% exactly to allow for evaporation. Lye needs at least its own weight in liquid to dissolve. As water evaporates and the solution cools if the ratio falls too low some lye may precipitate out. >>>

If you are unsure of the math, look carefully at the measurements on the batch formula/print out from the calculator of your choice. Make a batch the Old Fashioned Way and weigh the water and lye before pouring it into the oils. Weigh the whole pot of oils and lye solution, etc. if you know what everything "should" weigh you can double check yourself when you graduate to master batching.

[Candybee]

Thank you so much Talltayl!

For now I think when I start MB lye I will probably start out doing enough for maybe 4 batches at a time until I feel confident to do a bigger MB.

One last question. I only plan to MB lye for use on the same day. (At least for now). So If I masterbatch enough lye solution to make 4 batches of soap and use it the same day-- do I need to use more water? How much can evaporate if I use it all within a time frame of a few hours?

[Candybee]

Thank you for correcting this for CB. I'd hate so see her ruin a batch because of my bad math.

No problem! I haven't started yet so I am good.

[Barbara AL]

What is your average soap recipe have in lye amount? If it is 12 ounces Masterbatch 48 ounces of lye and 48 ounces of water.

That is a 50/50 solution when I want to make it 33% I add additional milk to mine in the oils.

For example if the recipe calls for 4 ounces of lye I would pour out 8 ounces of the Masterbatch solution remember that is 4 ounces lye 4 ounces water and than I would add 4 ounces of milk to my oils that makes it a 33% solution. I like this idea so I can swirl and the batter will be thinner.

[TallTayl]

"How much can evaporate"

A really easy way to tell is to weigh your container, then make the lye solution. Then weigh it all just before you are ready to use it. The total weight of the container, water and lye on paper minus the actual weight will quickly give you an idea of the evaporation.

[Candybee]

"How much can evaporate"

A really easy way to tell is to weigh your container, then make the lye solution. Then weigh it all just before you are ready to use it. The total weight of the container, water and lye on paper minus the actual weight will quickly give you an idea of the evaporation.

This sounds like a very good idea. Thanks!

[Candybee]

What is your average soap recipe have in lye amount? If it is 12 ounces Masterbatch 48 ounces of lye and 48 ounces of water.

That is a 50/50 solution when I want to make it 33% I add additional milk to mine in the oils.

For example if the recipe calls for 4 ounces of lye I would pour out 8 ounces of the Masterbatch solution remember that is 4 ounces lye 4 ounces water and than I would add 4 ounces of milk to my oils that makes it a 33% solution. I like this idea so I can swirl and the batter will be thinner.

I do something similar. I split my liquid so I can do the 50/50% lye solution, then the other liquid I use like milk I pour directly into my soaping oils. That way I get all my liquid in the soap.

[Solarra]

So if my recipe calls for 4.94 water and 2.32 I would just multiply each of those numbers by however many batches I want? Then if I want to make two batches I would take out 14.52 ounces of the masterbatched lye solution? You have to do that for each different recipe you use correct, because you can't just make a base 32% lye solution that would work for all recipes because of the sap values of each oil?

[Jcandleattic]

On 10/15/2018 at 11:04 AM, Solarra said:

So if my recipe calls for 4.94 water and 2.32 I would just multiply each of those numbers by however many batches I want? Then if I want to make two batches I would take out 14.52 ounces of the masterbatched lye solution? You have to do that for each different recipe you use correct, because you can't just make a base 32% lye solution that would work for all recipes because of the sap values of each oil?

I masterbatch at a 50/50 or 1:1 lye solution, then at the time of soaping add the extra water to get it to the concentration I desire. 

[TallTayl]

On 10/15/2018 at 12:04 PM, Solarra said:

So if my recipe calls for 4.94 water and 2.32 I would just multiply each of those numbers by however many batches I want? Then if I want to make two batches I would take out 14.52 ounces of the masterbatched lye solution? You have to do that for each different recipe you use correct, because you can't just make a base 32% lye solution that would work for all recipes because of the sap values of each oil?

Your lye solution is based on a constant proportion of lye to water, so if you calculate how much lye is needed for any given recipe, that water amount comes along with it. Like JC mentioned above you can adjust the amount of water to whatever strength you please as you go. 

 

I standardized my formulas which makes this all incredibly easy. Though if I need to make something special, the math is pretty easy.