6% FO versus 8% FO

[Candybee]

That is exactly what an experienced chandler finds through research and testing their candle's FO load. In the end, less is more. It is sometimes the hardest thing for a new chandler to learn.

[Emily Anne]

Wow! I'm sooooooooo thankful (very thankful) for all the responses. Last night I saw some of them, but had to run to sports events and then do homework with my boys so couldn't respond. Went to bed early because I was emotionally drained yesterday! I think reaching out for help is what I needed to do. Only people that do this would understand how emotionally draining it really can be.

 

I'll go look at the posts and reply to them. THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!!

[Emily Anne]

You are not the first person to do that, Emily, and you won't be the last. I think most people give up within 2 or 3 years. Making a good candle is just the beginning of having a candle business. Then you have to market your products, and continuously find new scents and respond to changes in customer demands, etc. It doesn't stop.

If you took out a business loan, you had a business plan. Where and how did it all unravel? What was wrong with all the other candles you made?

 

I more than once thought I was 'ready' and even right now I feel like I'm so close. I've felt like this many times though. My husband, who is my biggest supporter, but also my biggest (not sure what word to use here) - pushes me to hurry, and says I'm taking too long.

 

I took out a loan one of the times when I felt like we were ready. My husband actually set a date and said they have to be ready by xxxx - well I felt so much pressure to get them done and didn't want to let him down so I told him we were ready and was hoping I really would be by that date, but then I just couldn't bring myself to think they were good enough. I don't know if I made any sense here. It was a VERY dumb move on my part.

 

My business plan is still in place. I make melts, but I really want to sell the candles too. I am going to take a few weeks here and focus on JUST candles. Before I was making and testing candles and melts at the same time trying to 'meet deadlines' - it just doesn't work that way.

 

Most of my candles that I felt like had problems would be either they mushroomed too much or they smoked. Not all of them. I have made a couple that were fine. The mistake I'm pretty sure I made was switching immediately to a different blend or a different wick and NOT figuring out the problem. I switched so many times thinking it would be a quick fix. I know NOW that's not the way to do it.

[Emily Anne]

There is a wick company that you can send 3 candles to & they will find the right wick for you. I'll find the link & post when I do.

Thanks,  I think I've heard of them. Wicks Unlimited maybe? Not sure. I'd have to google it. If I can't figure it out then I may consider giving that a try, but I want to keep working at it a little longer first.

[Emily Anne]

Emily Anne don't be so hard on yourself. We all went through a similar struggle.

 

I do have a suggestion and it works. But you have to stick with it. Pick one wax. ONE. And work with it. Stick with it until you have your candle. By the time you learn how to make that one candle you should know just about everything there is to know about that wax.

 

Also, check with other candlemakers on this forum or other candle forums to see if you can enlist their help with testing them out for you. What you want is effective critique you can rely on to improve your candle.

 

Once you have that wax down then you can move on to another. Having mastered one wax prepares you to work with others. I wish I had stuck with my paraffin until I perfected it.

I definitely would like someone to test burn my candles for me. A few people! I would greatly appreciate it so much!!! I want someone who knows what they are doing and understands the process of testing. Family so far for me with the exception of my sister who does give me good harsh feedback (lol love her for it too) usually just gives me basic feedback. I tell them I'd rather hear the truth even if it's bad rather than a lie of false hope!

My mother in law is getting better at giving me feedback on my melts. I use her for that. In the beginning she wasn't good. She called to tell me she couldn't smell my honeysuckle melt she had burning. That's one of my strongest melts. So I drove 3 miles to her house (since she's so close) and I get there and she has her patio door open and windows open - Well NO WONDER she couldn't smell it.

 

I also want to sick with one wax. I prefer a blend though which would technically be 2 waxes. I really like the 4627 mixed with soy. I have never made a candle without fragrance in it.

 

What's puzzling to me is how come sometimes I look at my candles and think they aren't good then the next time I see them burn I think they are fine. I second guess myself so much. That's why I think I do need some of you to test for me if anyone would be willing.

 

Right now I have 2 burning. Both are double wicked with HTP 73's - Both have 8% FO (I still need to make some with less maybe). Both are throwing well. Melt pools are about 3/4" to 1" deep and have been only burning about an hour. See? Isn't that too fast? but the flames are not out of control by any means. The jars are hot. The whole "hot jar" is something I don't get either. I would think any time you put a fire in a glass jar and let it burn it's going to make the jar hot. So many little things I just can't decide for myself if it's 'okay' or not.......

[Emily Anne]

Emily anne I can completely understand how you feel , I have been testing for 3 years now , I started out with paraffin couldn't get it right so moved on to soy wax then rapeseed wax , I also have hundreds of jars , I tried new jars thinking this will make it work and it didnt so I moved on to new wax and new jars and I had been going round in circles. However just this past month I feel like I am starting to understand abit more about how candles should burn . At first I thought that I had to accept mushrooms as no matter what I did I couldn't escape them , however I had a candle given to me that burned absolutely perfect, it required no wick trimming and there wasn't a shroom in sight! So then I started on a whole lot of new testing where I didn't want my candles to get mushrooms, I picked one wax and one brand of wicks and also one jar, the jar I have started with is small it's only a 4 oz jam jar and I have managed to wick 2 fragrances now that do not need wick trimming and they get no mushrooms, so now what I do is I make up 6 candles with 2 different wick sizes with fragrance % 6,7 and 8 and then I light them and watch them all burn. The 2 candles that I made that burned perfect had 8% fragrance yet I made another candle with a different fragrance with 8% and that burned not so good so I remade it with 7% fragrance and that burned better with no mushrooms but still not quite right so I will remake again with 6% fragrance and if it's not strong enough or still doesn't burn right I will move onto another fragrance. So fragrance % really does seem to affect the burn of a candle.

How long did you test the xcel wax for? And what wicks did you use ? X

I also hate mushrooms. I can deal with them if they are small. Right now I'm trying this double wicking with the HTP's and so far I am getting little to no mushrooms. (crossing fingers). They are making a fast melt pool though and so .. never sure what to think about that. I've seem people say they shouldn't do it on the first burn. These are doing it in about an hour and anywhere from 1/2 to 1" deep. Of course it's throwing scent like crazy. It's 8% FO.

 

I started with 100% Soy (464) and I hated the frosting and bumpy tops. I worked with it for about 2 months then I started mixing in some 4627 and I liked the look of it. I have also tried 6006 (forgot to mention that one earlier). I didn't care for the after appearance. It seemed oily on the jar. Some of my candles if I didn't like the appearance I automatically considered them as 'out' and didn't really give them a chance. I wanted something I could pour and it look aesthetically nice without having to  heat jars or do re-pours. With the parasoy that I am hoping to use I get that from it.

 

I did try 100% 4627 once also and it smelled really good but the appearance was wet/oily spots. I used woodwicks in those and never tried any other wick in those.

 

I need to take my 'best' candles (which I think is the ones I'm currently working on ) and just try to STICK with this. Pretty sure I bounced to much and too fast looking for quick answers.

[Emily Anne]

1 - Keep your method for making your candles the same EVERY time.  I.e  Make a wicking tool that wicks your double wicked candles the same width apart everytime.  Ensure you heat the wax to the same temperature every time, add your fragrance at the same temperature everytime, and poor it at the same temperature; everytime

2 - Select a wick suited to your wax, and make 1 candle of each size wick WITHOUT FRAGRANCE.  It's important you understand what your wax does without fragrance, so you can see the effect your fragrance has when you add fragrance to it.  i.e  2 x HTP 62 may work for you and the candle burns beautifully.  Add %5 and it may still burn well. Add %8 and it may stop burning.  So you go down to 7%, then 6%.  You must be methodical.

3 - Note down the beginning middle and end burn of your candle.  Eliminate any wicks that do not burn for you in your wax without fragrance.  If the wick does not burn without fragrance then the likelihood is it will not burn well with fragrance.

4 - Repeat steps 2 & 3 for another brand of wick you think will work in your wax.  Repeat this over each wick you have in your living room, until you have a list of wicks that are working without fragrance.  

5 - Once you've identified candles that burn nicely without fragrance, start adding at 5% and see how that effects the burn.  It may burn great; so try 7%, and see how you go.  You will likely have to wick up, but make sure when wicking up you are not using a wick that did not burn without fragrance.

 

A few things I've learnt in my 8 months of testing (without a successful candle)

 

1 - The start can be slow in an initial burn; by the time it gets to the bottom of the container, the melt pool will be bigger and the jar will be hotter.

2 - Just because a wick size is higher in number does not mean it will perform the same, and just burn hotter.  One example is this.  I use HTP in 4627.  The HTP 52, 62 and 93 are the only wicks that will burn successfully every time in my candles.

     - HTP 83 burns hotter than the 93 and has an out of control flame; and turns the wax black

     - HTP 72 and 73 drown out half way down the jar, and turns the wax brown

     - HTP 52 and 62 burn perfectly;  They do not soot, they do not turn the wax a nasty colour and they burn a perfect melt pool by the 3rd burn

     - HTP 93 performs almost the same as the 52 and 62 with the exception of a hotter burn. and an ever so slightly deeper melt pool.  

     - All of the above wicks performed the same with fragrance in them (8%); so now I know the fragrance is not my issue and I can focus on performing the same tests on other wick brands.

3 - When you read posts about 'drowning wicks' or something similar; do not assume what you read is whats happening.  Only you can determine the issue through testing.  Write some test cases down and just work through them until you've proven to yourself what caused that particular issue.  Experience is the only way to learn.

4 - Not every fragrance will give a great throw.  Pick something that you know has a strong throw and only test with that. Remember Vanilla's are hard to burn.

5 - Sometimes less is more, don't assume throwing more fragrance at the problem is going to help.  and don't assume going up a wick size will either.

 

That is just my 2c worth.  I wanted to give you what I've learnt over the last 2 weeks since I've now been taking methodical steps to eliminate elements as the problems.  In the last week I have determined that there are only 3 wicks in the HTP range that I can use and I now know that I can focus my efforts on finding other wicks that will fill the gap for when I may need to deviate from the HTP 52 62 or 93.

 

Hope this helps.  Keep at it; your not alone!

 

I really liked all of your advice. I've see so many say to make a candle without fragrance to understand the wax better and it's one thing I've never done. I just jumped in with the fragrance thinking I could adjust it based off of the burn.

 

I am using HTPs right now. The only ones I've used so far are 73's and 83's. I have some 62's that I haven't tried yet. Right now the candles (2 are burning) both have 8% FO and double wicked 73's in a 3" diameter jar. The melt pool is about an inch deep a little over an hour burning. The hole house smells like the candle. It's throwing well. I question if it's burning too fast. The jar is hot of course, and I always question how hot is too hot. I tired to use my heat temperature gun and I don't feel like it gets a good reading on glass since the infrared light shines through it. It says anywhere from 145 to 188 degrees. The jar is too hot the touch which makes me think it's too hot, but flames seem controlled. Puzzling.

 

I want to try with the 62's and see if it will make the melt pool a little slower maybe and maybe not be as hot. I guess I should make a candle with no FO also and see how hot it burns as a guide like you said as well.

[Emily Anne]

I was hooked on trying to load 12% fragrance in a candle because I thought it wasn't throwing, and the 4627 claims to hold %12.  One of my most critical friends kept telling me the one thing I need to do is make sure that the candles throw well or they wont sell.   I finally loaded it up and got it to burn (only half way down) by adding 8% fragrance; so I shipped out these candles which were only burning half way down to get feedback.  Within 24 hours my family and friends were all ringing me telling me they were too strong and they had to extinguish them within 30 minutes. ME:  Couldn't smell a thing!  Yet my brother claims his house still smells of vanilla 3 weeks on!

This made me laugh out loud. I know for SURE I've had candle nose and it's so annoying. 9% is the most I've ever tried in my parasoy that I've been testing. It seemed too much. When I made my VERY first set of candles with 100% soy I loaded them with the max just because I thought it would be better. That was many many months ago.

[Emily Anne]

I'm sorry you're heart is broken, but if you haven't given up yet, please don't. And please please don't be ashamed for spending money on something you truly wanted to have work out! There is NO SHAME in that whatsoever!! None... 

 

Just keep reading, asking questions, question answers that you either don't understand or are not explained right or you don't think seem to sound right. Answer people who are trying to help you with the most information you can give them (which you do a great job of), etc, etc, and just keep plugging away. 

Thanks for the encouragement! I used to read on this forum when I first decided I was going to make candles. One of my mistakes was probably that I didn't join and ask for help along the way. I read what I thought was 'enough' and just ordered everything and took off with it. Learned the hard way I guess that I do need help

[chuck_35550]

Think of fo percentage as part of a recipe. You like your cake to be really sweet and lots of vanilla, so you add more sugar and vanilla extract but there's a limit; you can't double the sugar or you ruin the cake. Some fos are highly concentrated and their formulations have been based on a particular medium such as soy or paraffin. The idea is that even though a highly concentrated fo is more expensive, it takes less to do the job and is actually cheaper on the bottom line. This the wrong craft for a perfectionist. Too many variables for what appears to be fairly simple and which is complicated by personal taste. If your husband thinks the candles are good, then trust his judgement and put your product out there. The real factor behind this industry is the idea that somehow you can create something new and wonderful that everyone will beat a path to your door and all the sacrifice will pay off. I love to create but not much of a salesman (sigh). I'm lucky that over the years my sales have allowed me to break even and play with candles and soap but I am not deluded. I know if all this "stuff" were to be added up, along with my hours of research and back breaking work; the hole would be pretty deep. Take a deep breath and start doing it or give it up and learn a lesson. I promise that once you take the plunge; you'll wonder why it took you so long. I've been using Clarus 3022 for about 7 years and that's my wax. I know it inside and out and what it will and won't do. HTH

Steve

[Emily Anne]

Think of fo percentage as part of a recipe. You like your cake to be really sweet and lots of vanilla, so you add more sugar and vanilla extract but there's a limit; you can't double the sugar or you ruin the cake. Some fos are highly concentrated and their formulations have been based on a particular medium such as soy or paraffin. The idea is that even though a highly concentrated fo is more expensive, it takes less to do the job and is actually cheaper on the bottom line. This the wrong craft for a perfectionist. Too many variables for what appears to be fairly simple and which is complicated by personal taste. If your husband thinks the candles are good, then trust his judgement and put your product out there. The real factor behind this industry is the idea that somehow you can create something new and wonderful that everyone will beat a path to your door and all the sacrifice will pay off. I love to create but not much of a salesman (sigh). I'm lucky that over the years my sales have allowed me to break even and play with candles and soap but I am not deluded. I know if all this "stuff" were to be added up, along with my hours of research and back breaking work; the hole would be pretty deep. Take a deep breath and start doing it or give it up and learn a lesson. I promise that once you take the plunge; you'll wonder why it took you so long. I've been using Clarus 3022 for about 7 years and that's my wax. I know it inside and out and what it will and won't do. HTH

Steve

 

I really like the cake analogy. It makes perfect sense. The only oils I've ever used are from CS and a couple from the Candlemakers Store. That was my main question in starting the thread to get opinions on if less was really more. Just because at first thought it doesn't make sense. I can see where it makes more sense now. I have never made a candle with anything less than 8%, but I'm going to.

[ChandlerWicks]

Thanks,  I think I've heard of them. Wicks Unlimited maybe? Not sure. I'd have to google it. If I can't figure it out then I may consider giving that a try, but I want to keep working at it a little longer first.

Yes, that's it!

[chuck_35550]

Consider 6% as your starting point and add as meets your taste (why else do you think companies offer 1 ounce samples as a general rule of thumb?). I started with a votive kit from Cajun Candles (J-50 wax)and bagged up the votives with my label and gave them as Valentines gifts to friends, neighbors and co-workers. They became my customer base and eventually I landed several wholesale accounts which kept me running day and night. I went from J-50 to J-223 to Green Leaf (Clarus 3022) and haven't looked back. Combustion of heavy vanilla fragrances will create shrooms, no matter what you do. Vanilla causes cold process soap to turn brown or tan. I find that clear fos that are formulated to smell like vanilla but don't actually contain vanilla work the best in both soap and candles. Now some folks are going to highly disagree with me on that conclusion but if you want to simplify your results; look for fragrance oils that have low amounts of vanilla or cinnamon. Here's my formula: 2 12 ounce jars will hold 8 ounces comfortably and that equals 15 ounces of wax and 1 ounce of fragrance oil or almost a 7% load. I don't color. I will color if asked but nobody ever asks. Candles are highly competitive in a flooded, cooled off market with tons of cheapies. Why do my customers come back? Your candles are better and you have fragrances that nobody else has at Walmart. I created the name, the label, and have no help from anyone. I closed my business down and notified the state tax folks that they weren't getting anymore of my money and only sell to a select few of customers. I'll open back up when the market improves and I'm retired. Personally, I didn't care for your wax and only liked the 85 % 6006 with 15% soy; if I couldn't get Clarus 3022.

[boogieluv]

Well let me say this, I know how costly it is because I've already shoved so much into this is why I feel like I can't give up. I tried figuring out candles for a few months (about 6 probably) then moved onto melts. I said in my first post that I have made a 'few candles' but I've made a few hundred or so. I have no idea how many for sure I've made. There have been so many times I've thought I nailed it that I'd get excited and make an inventory and then decide they were all wrong and I'd trash them (melt them down and dump out). I have LITERALLY wasted about 10K since last Fall. No joke. Actually counting a business loan I took out about 15K.... I've paid for so many things thinking I was ready. My husband believes they are perfect, but I always find something I think should be better.

 

I am my worst critic. I want it to be something "I" think is the best. Family is worthless for giving feedback (in my experience).

 

What I'm trying to do now is sort of start over and I had never previously tried double wicking so I thought I would attempt that, and then I also remembered everyone talking about a lower FO load so I thought about dropping down to 6% and see if it helps with smoking and mushrooming etc. I came here to do so more reading and thought I'd create an account to see if I could get any help/advice by asking questions instead of just reading and not participating.

 

I swear I have tried everything, or at least I feel like I have. I have made 100% soy, 100% paraffin, and a parasoy blend. I have tried eco's, LX, HTP, CD, and woodwick (I think that's all of them). I have a whole plastic tub filled with wicks. I have tried waxes: 464, 444, Advanced, Excel, 4627, Palm and then I've also spent money on my other waxes for my melts. I have 8 different size and style jars (hexs, tureens, jelly, mason, status, teddy bear, tumblers, apothecary and maybe more), and about 50 different FO's. I have had to move everything to our basement because I took over the whole upper level of our home. I even have 100's of packing/shipping boxes, bubble wrap, tape etc. I have everything a person needs to run a business (even 1 million in insurance thru Brower). I have $1000's in inventory right now that I just look at and think OMG! What am I going to do with all this?!?  I have spent so much money on this I'm ashamed of it!! Especially because it just seems like such a huge failure that it breaks my heart!

 

Wow - that was long! I don't get to let anyone 'inside my head' with my whole candle stuff because I feel like they don't understand. I feel like my family thinks I'm just a big failure because I put so much into this and got so excited about it and now it's one of the worse things I've ever done - putting my family in debt over wax

 

 

Emily Anne, I totally understand how you feel. My husband and I actually just had a discussion about how I'm my worst critic. What he sees as a perfectly acceptable candle, I see as an off-center melt pool with hang-up of 0 to less than a 1/4" on the sides. Like you I have tried many wicks: ECO, LX, HTP, CD, Cotton Core, RRD, and Zinc. Nothing ever seems to good enough and what was supposed to be a quick and easy way to supplement my bath and body products has turned into an obsession and a money pit. Don't give up. I think "The Write Stuff" had some good advice. That's what I plan to do. There's so many knowledgeable people willing to give their advice on this forum. You can do this!!!

 

Emily Anne don't be so hard on yourself. We all went through a similar struggle.

 

I do have a suggestion and it works. But you have to stick with it. Pick one wax. ONE. And work with it. Stick with it until you have your candle. By the time you learn how to make that one candle you should know just about everything there is to know about that wax.

 

Also, check with other candlemakers on this forum or other candle forums to see if you can enlist their help with testing them out for you. What you want is effective critique you can rely on to improve your candle.

 

Once you have that wax down then you can move on to another. Having mastered one wax prepares you to work with others. I wish I had stuck with my paraffin until I perfected it.

[Trappeur]

Hello Emily Anne,

 

Oh, the joys and frustrations(more so of this) of the candleworld is not for everyone.  This is a great topic here that is being thoroughly discussed and with everyone helping you is really beautiful.  I'm learning more as I have be rereading this topic over and over myself.  The only thing that I wanted to contribute to this topic is hang in there and you will start seeing the light....you will..if your are persistant and patient.  And patience plays into this very much.  When I first read your post and saw how much you had invested and doing it in a 6 month period, I felt so bad for you, but like everyone says, we all have been there and most of us are still there pulling our hairs out.....It's good that you keep answering everyones questions as we are all here to help one another.

 

If I may make a suggestion to you:  

1:.  Pickout out 1 wax (like others have said) and stick with that one (for the time being)...don't bounce around.

 2: Pickout 1 jar or even 2 (the most)

 3:  You will need a selection of wicks to experiment with and I'm sure you have them all..

4.  Additives I don't think  you need that now.   I don't use them myself (but that is just me).

5.  Work with everyone on the board as if you were starting over (I think you are doing that just fine)

 

Emily,  please don't take this the wrong way as I don't mean it in any way to hurt  your feelings....but I think you have too many thinks scattered about you and are going in too many directions with all your jars and waxes, too many pots in the fire.   Get focused and concentrate on 1 thing at a time to perfect a candle.  You said you threw out over a hundred jars made....oh boy....lol...Keep in mind for what ever reason you think these were not good candles....remember a couple of things.  Some fragrances will definitely not work and be compatable in your wax.  That's a given there.  And to truly test a fragrance you need to let those candles cure for a week or even more for some.  This is where you have to have PATIENCE and believe me I've lost it many a time by not having that patience.  Matter of fact I made a couple fragrances a couple of months ago that I never burned because I had given up on it and for some reason I happened to light a few of them up because I was out of candles for myself and boy did I have a surprize when I lit them and were they strong and nice!  

 

This is not a hobby that you perfect in 6 months, 12 months, etc........can take years and we still, even all the seasoned candle makers here learn every day.  I don't know if you are doing this just for a hobby for yourself or would like to take it further and make a business out of it...but what ever it is, you want a product you can be proud of and a "safe" product.  You can experiment and burn and still enjoy your candles for yourself....but when it comes to the public, it has to be something that the public is not to be experimenting with. (I'm sure you know this though)

 

Isn't this just fun?   Not......, right? lol......Oh, well, you go girl....you'll do it....It only takes time, patience and a love of it. 

 

Oh, also, don't throw out all your boo boos you don't like.  You can save all your waxes that you have poured into jars and make BEAUTIFUL Christmas giftsin fire starters from all your waxes.....Definitely dont throw out...if you don't want to do that I'm sure someone like me will take them off your hands lol..

 

Trappeur

[Emily Anne]

Hello Emily Anne,

 

Oh, the joys and frustrations(more so of this) of the candleworld is not for everyone.  This is a great topic here that is being thoroughly discussed and with everyone helping you is really beautiful.  I'm learning more as I have be rereading this topic over and over myself.  The only thing that I wanted to contribute to this topic is hang in there and you will start seeing the light....you will..if your are persistant and patient.  And patience plays into this very much.  When I first read your post and saw how much you had invested and doing it in a 6 month period, I felt so bad for you, but like everyone says, we all have been there and most of us are still there pulling our hairs out.....It's good that you keep answering everyones questions as we are all here to help one another.

 

If I may make a suggestion to you:  

1:.  Pickout out 1 wax (like others have said) and stick with that one (for the time being)...don't bounce around.

 2: Pickout 1 jar or even 2 (the most)

 3:  You will need a selection of wicks to experiment with and I'm sure you have them all..

4.  Additives I don't think  you need that now.   I don't use them myself (but that is just me).

5.  Work with everyone on the board as if you were starting over (I think you are doing that just fine)

 

Emily,  please don't take this the wrong way as I don't mean it in any way to hurt  your feelings....but I think you have too many thinks scattered about you and are going in too many directions with all your jars and waxes, too many pots in the fire.   Get focused and concentrate on 1 thing at a time to perfect a candle.  You said you threw out over a hundred jars made....oh boy....lol...Keep in mind for what ever reason you think these were not good candles....remember a couple of things.  Some fragrances will definitely not work and be compatable in your wax.  That's a given there.  And to truly test a fragrance you need to let those candles cure for a week or even more for some.  This is where you have to have PATIENCE and believe me I've lost it many a time by not having that patience.  Matter of fact I made a couple fragrances a couple of months ago that I never burned because I had given up on it and for some reason I happened to light a few of them up because I was out of candles for myself and boy did I have a surprize when I lit them and were they strong and nice!  

 

This is not a hobby that you perfect in 6 months, 12 months, etc........can take years and we still, even all the seasoned candle makers here learn every day.  I don't know if you are doing this just for a hobby for yourself or would like to take it further and make a business out of it...but what ever it is, you want a product you can be proud of and a "safe" product.  You can experiment and burn and still enjoy your candles for yourself....but when it comes to the public, it has to be something that the public is not to be experimenting with. (I'm sure you know this though)

 

Isn't this just fun?   Not......, right? lol......Oh, well, you go girl....you'll do it....It only takes time, patience and a love of it. 

 

Oh, also, don't throw out all your boo boos you don't like.  You can save all your waxes that you have poured into jars and make BEAUTIFUL Christmas giftsin fire starters from all your waxes.....Definitely dont throw out...if you don't want to do that I'm sure someone like me will take them off your hands lol..

 

Trappeur

Hi Trappeur,

 

You are right about tons of stuff for sure. My feelings are not hurt, I have to take any criticism I get and learn from it, and I'd rather have someone tell me like it is then beat around a bush. Yes, I definitely went in too many directions at one time. Trying to 'hurry' this up did nothing but set me back. Lesson learned. I am working with my parasoy. I did make some new candles last week and I made some different scents that I haven't smelled before. I'm hoping with the new scents it will also help me with the candle nose. I'm so tired of smelling the same scents over and over. I don't even like a lot of them anymore Lol - smelled them too many times and burned myself out.

 

Back to getting into too many things at one time and all the different jars and things - You'll die when I tell you this. I even bought soap making ingredients thinking I was going to learn it all. Well thankfully my brain kicked in at one point and I never even touched any of those ingredients yet. I've had soap stuff here since March or so. There is NO WAY I'm going to attempt soaps or lotions (one day I really want to) until I finish these candles. I feel like I do know a lot about candles and it is sort of like starting over, but already having a decent knowledge base. PATIENCE is a huge key factor for me and I think it will be what helps me make this work. Not jumping around anymore. I want to work with this parasoy and raise and lower the FO by 1 or 2% and change the wicks by a size or 2 until it's the way I want. I really think I'm almost there.<--- probably should even say that.

 

I have yet to make a candle without fragrance like some have suggested. Right now I have lowered my FO by a percent and lowered my wicks by one. They are burning and have been burning a few hours. Seem to be doing good so far (we know how that goes).

 

About the candles I have heated up and poured out, I have 3 boxes that I still need to heat up and pour out. It's a lot of work and a huge WASTE. I like to keep my jars and re-use them so I'm not throwing out the entire candle. I thought about trying to re-use the wax but figured some of the FO is released when I heat it up and it would change the properties of the candle, so I never knew how much FO I should add back. Such a nightmare.

 

I am all about safety. My 2 concerns are the candle has to smell good (of course) and be safe (100%). I do have insurance thru Brower, but I want to never have to need it. I have all the warning labels etc for my melts and for candles as well. I could never sleep at night if anything happened from a candle I made. I am huge on safety. Seems like the safer they burn the less they smell when the flames are smaller. That's the tricky part is finding a way to get them to burn safe and smell awesome - all of our dreams I suppose.

 

As far as it being a business or a hobby. I'm shooting for business, and I already have everything in play for it online and set up.  I'd rather have a storefront, but I've wasted too much money right now to attempt a lease. I did already price one though. I'll just have to see how these next candles go and my testing on some other scents. My melts are the way I want them. I have nothing else to add or test with those. I have about 50 scents approximately that I have tested and have passed 'my' approval. The people who have had my melts so far all love them, and I haven't had any negative reports (yet) about them being weak or not throwing. So, thankfully I'm not still testing melts.

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me. I'm grateful for all the feedback I have received.

[Emily Anne]

Consider 6% as your starting point and add as meets your taste (why else do you think companies offer 1 ounce samples as a general rule of thumb?). I started with a votive kit from Cajun Candles (J-50 wax)and bagged up the votives with my label and gave them as Valentines gifts to friends, neighbors and co-workers. They became my customer base and eventually I landed several wholesale accounts which kept me running day and night. I went from J-50 to J-223 to Green Leaf (Clarus 3022) and haven't looked back. Combustion of heavy vanilla fragrances will create shrooms, no matter what you do. Vanilla causes cold process soap to turn brown or tan. I find that clear fos that are formulated to smell like vanilla but don't actually contain vanilla work the best in both soap and candles. Now some folks are going to highly disagree with me on that conclusion but if you want to simplify your results; look for fragrance oils that have low amounts of vanilla or cinnamon. Here's my formula: 2 12 ounce jars will hold 8 ounces comfortably and that equals 15 ounces of wax and 1 ounce of fragrance oil or almost a 7% load. I don't color. I will color if asked but nobody ever asks. Candles are highly competitive in a flooded, cooled off market with tons of cheapies. Why do my customers come back? Your candles are better and you have fragrances that nobody else has at Walmart. I created the name, the label, and have no help from anyone. I closed my business down and notified the state tax folks that they weren't getting anymore of my money and only sell to a select few of customers. I'll open back up when the market improves and I'm retired. Personally, I didn't care for your wax and only liked the 85 % 6006 with 15% soy; if I couldn't get Clarus 3022.

 

I have never tried any Clarus and at this point there is no way I'm buying another wax to try =) I have seen so many love Clarus. I heard it was similar to 6006 isn't it? I have made a few 6006 candles and those were some that had wet spots on the jars and I didn't like they 'way they looked' well I'm over the whole appearance. I'm not going to toss any more candles based off of appearance. If they smell and throw the way I want then that's it. I'm done. I'm definitely not basing if they are good enough or not based off the way they look that's for sure.

 

I don't know how the candles in walmart are so cheap either. They really aren't very good either. I've bought them so that I could compare to my own - a few different brands. I'm really was not impressed with them. I suppose many people love them or they wouldn't be on the shelves.

[jbrooks]

I also wanted to add to this -and it may just be me- but in my (limited) experience, too much fragrance oil also distorts some/many scents really badly. There are lots of oils that I like at 6-7% but I don't think smell very great closer to 10%. Again, may just be me but wanted to voice that opinion

[flair]

I am just going to say this, these are some of the most helpful people I have ever seen... It is truly amazing how everyone just wants to genuinely help... I am a newbie myself and I have experienced all these guys helping me as well.  As a newbie I know you really appreciate all the knowledge and help as do I...  Really guys, this board is sooooo helpful.. And oh,,,, they will tell you the truth so be prepared!!

[Emily Anne]

I wanted to thank everyone again who helped me with advice in this thread. Thanks to ALL OF YOU!! I have been testing, and being more patient. Things seem to be going a lot better. A few scents I have are harder to wick than others which is irritating, but overall - it's MUCH better! I think being able to vent on here while reading all of your replies helped me so much! Thanks!

[TallTayl]

I really liked all of your advice. I've see so many say to make a candle without fragrance to understand the wax better and it's one thing I've never done. I just jumped in with the fragrance thinking I could adjust it based off of the burn.

 

I am using HTPs right now. The only ones I've used so far are 73's and 83's. I have some 62's that I haven't tried yet. Right now the candles (2 are burning) both have 8% FO and double wicked 73's in a 3" diameter jar. The melt pool is about an inch deep a little over an hour burning. The hole house smells like the candle. It's throwing well. I question if it's burning too fast. The jar is hot of course, and I always question how hot is too hot. I tired to use my heat temperature gun and I don't feel like it gets a good reading on glass since the infrared light shines through it. It says anywhere from 145 to 188 degrees. The jar is too hot the touch which makes me think it's too hot, but flames seem controlled. Puzzling.T

 

I want to try with the 62's and see if it will make the melt pool a little slower maybe and maybe not be as hot. I guess I should make a candle with no FO also and see how hot it burns as a guide like you said as well.

Nolded, underlined, italics part.... One inch deep melt pool in one hour of burning? Waaaaaay too hot. Dial that back to one wick. By the time that reaches the bottom half of the candle you will have some major heat issues.

[TallTayl]

I definitely would like someone to test burn my candles for me. A few people! I would greatly appreciate it so much!!! I want someone who knows what they are doing and understands the process of testing. Family so far for me with the exception of my sister who does give me good harsh feedback (lol love her for it too) usually just gives me basic feedback. I tell them I'd rather hear the truth even if it's bad rather than a lie of false hope!

My mother in law is getting better at giving me feedback on my melts. I use her for that. In the beginning she wasn't good. She called to tell me she couldn't smell my honeysuckle melt she had burning. That's one of my strongest melts. So I drove 3 miles to her house (since she's so close) and I get there and she has her patio door open and windows open - Well NO WONDER she couldn't smell it.

 

I also want to sick with one wax. I prefer a blend though which would technically be 2 waxes. I really like the 4627 mixed with soy. I have never made a candle without fragrance in it.

 

What's puzzling to me is how come sometimes I look at my candles and think they aren't good then the next time I see them burn I think they are fine. I second guess myself so much. That's why I think I do need some of you to test for me if anyone would be willing.

 

TRight now I have 2 burning. Both are double wicked with HTP 73's - Both have 8% FO (I still need to make some with less maybe). Both are throwing well. Melt pools are about 3/4" to 1" deep and have been only burning about an hour. See? Isn't that too fast? but the flames are not out of control by any means. The jars are hot. The whole "hot jar" is something I don't get either. I would think any time you put a fire in a glass jar and let it burn it's going to make the jar hot. So many little things I just can't decide for myself if it's 'okay' or not.....T..

Those melt pools are too deep much too quickly. By the time that reaches the bottom you will have some scorching hot glass.

Do you have any photos to post so we can help you figure out what is going on?

[Trappeur]

Emily Anne,

 

Can you tell us what jars you are using, what wax and what size wick (or wicks) you are using?

 

Trappeur

[Emily Anne]

Those melt pools are too deep much too quickly. By the time that reaches the bottom you will have some scorching hot glass.

Do you have any photos to post so we can help you figure out what is going on?

 

 

Nolded, underlined, italics part.... One inch deep melt pool in one hour of burning? Waaaaaay too hot. Dial that back to one wick. By the time that reaches the bottom half of the candle you will have some major heat issues.

 

I did end up lower the wicks and going to htp 62's and it doesn't make the melt pool that fast. I've burned them all the way to the bottom. I've actually had some FO's stop about half way down and others make it. It's crazy how FO's react so differently. As they get to the bottom they seem fine and not too hot. =)

[Emily Anne]

Emily Anne,

 

Can you tell us what jars you are using, what wax and what size wick (or wicks) you are using?

 

Trappeur

 

I was testing those in 12oz tumblers and also in some 12oz status jars with 62's and they seem to be much safer and don't make the melt pool so fast, but still adequate. Much  more controlled and SAFER! I'm such a safety freak and it's really important to me that they aren't torches because I refuse to sell anything or giveaway anything that's torchy and out of control. I feel like I have the wicks mastered on some scents. I have some that are harder though - for example Dragon's Blood seems to be harder to wick. It wants to die half way down the jar with 62's and 73s (HTP) - so I've ended testing on that for now. Just working thru what works with my 62's first and trying not to stop along the way for 'problem' scents. I'll get back to those later or just ditch them. =)

Edited November 4, 2014 by Emily Anne