Jump to content

6% FO versus 8% FO


Recommended Posts

I have done quite a bit of reading, and made a few candles. I made candles with 8% FO and used many different scents. It seems some don't want to burn all the way down. Some do.

 

I have read MANY posts saying to only use 6% FO - what I'm wondering is wouldn't that decrease the throw of the candle?? I assumed if the manufacturer of the wax allows a max load of 10% that it would be okay to use 'up to' 10% and be okay. Why would they say you could use a max load of 10% if that was 'too much oil'? I'm really confused. I also assumed the more you use the stronger the candle.

 

So - If I used only 6% FO is it possible to have a stronger throwing candle verses using 8% FO?

 

Right now I'm testing 4727 mixed with soy and using HTP 73 and HTP 83 and I'm double wicking a 12oz status jar. I also want to test using a single wick as well. I'm just using this as my starting point.

 

My main question I'm hung up on is how could 6%FO give a stronger throwing candle then one with 8% or more? I plan to try one with less FO but I hate wasting all my supplies when it doesn't make sense to decrease the load? I know (from what I've read here) many of you have TONS more experience so I wanted to ask for opinions.

 

Thanks for any feedback. I hope some of you have time to respond.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a relative newbie but I've done side-by-side burn tests, same wax, same FO, different percentages. I know it varies by wick, wax, and FO but in my experience 8% did give a better hot and cold throw. I will say that I agree that 10% is overkill. I started off using 10% and after reading everyone's posts, scaled back to 6, and then settled on 8. I use 4627 and 4627 blends. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It does seem confusing when one wax manufacturer says one % while another says a different %.

 

Think of it as the capacity of the wax to hold scent. Many of today's waxes are designed to hold a higher FO load. So if the manufacturer says their wax can hold 10% or 12% what they really mean is they can hold up to that amount without the FO seeping out of the wax. That does not mean that you must load FO to the max to get a great smelling candle. It simply mean how much FO it can hold.

 

Most waxes work great with no more than a 6% or 1oz PP fragrance load. While some may work better with either 6% or 8%. Off the top of my head soy is one that most often may work better with a slightly higher load than 6% or at least with some scents.

 

There are reasons to test which load is best for your wax. And why some FOs work better with a higher load while others work better with 6% or less. Too much FO can clog a wick or impare the wick system. With an impaired wick system the wick can sputter and die or not throw at all. Also, some notes can be masked if too much FO is used. FOs can be very complex and have many notes.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest OldGlory

I think of the wax as a sponge with regard to how much FO it will hold, and all waxes are different in that respect. The wax and the fragrance effect the wick.

 

I am not sure I could tell the difference in HT or CT in a blind comparison of 6% and 8%. The only objective way to find out is to do a blind study. Offer 2 candles to 3 participants in the study, at 2 separate times. One candle has 8%, and one candle has 6%. Do not hand out the 8% candles to all participants at the same time, and change up the fragrances. Ask your participants to burn the candle for a week, and to look for specific results: cold fragrance, hot fragrance, the performance of the wick, and the overall performance of the candle. Participants should burn the candles in the same room with the same amount of moving air, same temperature, etc. I think your results will be all over the place.

 

It is not always true that more is better - it's just more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is not always true that more is better - it's just more.

I agree - also not everybody wants a "blow your doors off" strong scent. Especially my older clientele - aged between 40-60 - they would rather have a nice pleasant scent that scents up the room and you know it's there rather than one that will permeate the air and cling to your clothes and be more cloying than pleasant. 

 

For me personally - if a scent does not meet my expectations of a great HT and CT at 6% I toss it. To go above that affects my bottom line, and FO's get expensive, and I am el cheapo! LOL 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the responses. I know that testing is the 'only way to know for sure' what works best for me. I can't believe how hard it is to truly wick a candle properly. It seems if I wick them properly and they burn correctly and make the melt pool in the correct amount of time then they don't throw scent very fast or far. So that's why I was trying to decide if I should up the percentage. Then I remembered everyone talking about using only 6% so it got me thinking that maybe less would be better. I just couldn't/can't get the idea in my head that it would throw scent any better if I wasn't smelling it at 8%

 

This has got to be the most time consuming thing (and frustrating a lot) that I have EVER done in my life, yet I can't let it go!! It's crazy! =)

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also like the idea of picking a percentage that works well for me and then basing any other FO that I try off of that. If it doesn't then ditch it instead of spending too much time on one FO trying to make it work. There are 1000's of FO's out there so I think it would be easier to move on to another one instead of ripping my hair out on one.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a most unusual experience when I first started making candles. The first candle wax I started out with was a J223 paraffin container wax. Every scent I tried threw like crazy. I just assumed that was normal.

 

Then I started to work with soy. I never worked so hard in my life trying to get my wax to throw well and get it wicked right. I eventually moved on to parasoy and after a couple years got a really good candle system going and great throw. But it was a whole lot of work, time and money later. Total time spent getting my candle ready for sale after I switched waxes was 3 long years and thousands of dollars later.

 

The thing was, I didn't truly start to learn about waxes, wicking systems, and scent throw until I started working with other waxes that forced me to do a buttload of research and development.

Edited by Candybee
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing was, I didn't truly start to learn about waxes, wicking systems, and scent throw until I started working with other waxes that forced me to do a buttload of research and development.

I think this is a key factor!! I may only work with paraffin and palm at the moment, but I have tested/retested and formulated/reformulated many many waxes, wax combos, etc, to finally settle on what I like, what works best for my application and how I want my "brand" to be represented. 

As you said, it took years and years and thousands upon thousands of dollars in just testing alone. I may be "el cheapo" as I have mentioned above, but this is not by any means a "cheap" hobby or business. 

It does take patience and money. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't want anyone to misunderstand and think that I am saying paraffin is easy. Just because my first candles hit it off the bat scent wise the first time, they were actually awful candles. I just didn't know any better. They smoked and mushroomed like crazy but they sure smelled good!!

 

But I must admit paraffin is my first love when it comes to waxes. Maybe one of these days I will give it another shot and see if I can figure out how to wick it properly. LOL

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well let me say this, I know how costly it is because I've already shoved so much into this is why I feel like I can't give up. I tried figuring out candles for a few months (about 6 probably) then moved onto melts. I said in my first post that I have made a 'few candles' but I've made a few hundred or so. I have no idea how many for sure I've made. There have been so many times I've thought I nailed it that I'd get excited and make an inventory and then decide they were all wrong and I'd trash them (melt them down and dump out). I have LITERALLY wasted about 10K since last Fall. No joke. Actually counting a business loan I took out about 15K.... I've paid for so many things thinking I was ready. My husband believes they are perfect, but I always find something I think should be better.

 

I am my worst critic. I want it to be something "I" think is the best. Family is worthless for giving feedback (in my experience).

 

What I'm trying to do now is sort of start over and I had never previously tried double wicking so I thought I would attempt that, and then I also remembered everyone talking about a lower FO load so I thought about dropping down to 6% and see if it helps with smoking and mushrooming etc. I came here to do so more reading and thought I'd create an account to see if I could get any help/advice by asking questions instead of just reading and not participating.

 

I swear I have tried everything, or at least I feel like I have. I have made 100% soy, 100% paraffin, and a parasoy blend. I have tried eco's, LX, HTP, CD, and woodwick (I think that's all of them). I have a whole plastic tub filled with wicks. I have tried waxes: 464, 444, Advanced, Excel, 4627, Palm and then I've also spent money on my other waxes for my melts. I have 8 different size and style jars (hexs, tureens, jelly, mason, status, teddy bear, tumblers, apothecary and maybe more), and about 50 different FO's. I have had to move everything to our basement because I took over the whole upper level of our home. I even have 100's of packing/shipping boxes, bubble wrap, tape etc. I have everything a person needs to run a business (even 1 million in insurance thru Brower). I have $1000's in inventory right now that I just look at and think OMG! What am I going to do with all this?!?  I have spent so much money on this I'm ashamed of it!! Especially because it just seems like such a huge failure that it breaks my heart!

 

Wow - that was long! I don't get to let anyone 'inside my head' with my whole candle stuff because I feel like they don't understand. I feel like my family thinks I'm just a big failure because I put so much into this and got so excited about it and now it's one of the worse things I've ever done - putting my family in debt over wax :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest OldGlory

You are not the first person to do that, Emily, and you won't be the last. I think most people give up within 2 or 3 years. Making a good candle is just the beginning of having a candle business. Then you have to market your products, and continuously find new scents and respond to changes in customer demands, etc. It doesn't stop.

If you took out a business loan, you had a business plan. Where and how did it all unravel? What was wrong with all the other candles you made?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have spent so much money on this I'm ashamed of it!! Especially because it just seems like such a huge failure that it breaks my heart!

I'm sorry you're heart is broken, but if you haven't given up yet, please don't. And please please don't be ashamed for spending money on something you truly wanted to have work out! There is NO SHAME in that whatsoever!! None... 

 

Just keep reading, asking questions, question answers that you either don't understand or are not explained right or you don't think seem to sound right. Answer people who are trying to help you with the most information you can give them (which you do a great job of), etc, etc, and just keep plugging away. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well let me say this, I know how costly it is because I've already shoved so much into this is why I feel like I can't give up. I tried figuring out candles for a few months (about 6 probably) then moved onto melts. I said in my first post that I have made a 'few candles' but I've made a few hundred or so. I have no idea how many for sure I've made. There have been so many times I've thought I nailed it that I'd get excited and make an inventory and then decide they were all wrong and I'd trash them (melt them down and dump out). I have LITERALLY wasted about 10K since last Fall. No joke. Actually counting a business loan I took out about 15K.... I've paid for so many things thinking I was ready. My husband believes they are perfect, but I always find something I think should be better.

 

I am my worst critic. I want it to be something "I" think is the best. Family is worthless for giving feedback (in my experience).

 

What I'm trying to do now is sort of start over and I had never previously tried double wicking so I thought I would attempt that, and then I also remembered everyone talking about a lower FO load so I thought about dropping down to 6% and see if it helps with smoking and mushrooming etc. I came here to do so more reading and thought I'd create an account to see if I could get any help/advice by asking questions instead of just reading and not participating.

 

I swear I have tried everything, or at least I feel like I have. I have made 100% soy, 100% paraffin, and a parasoy blend. I have tried eco's, LX, HTP, CD, and woodwick (I think that's all of them). I have a whole plastic tub filled with wicks. I have tried waxes: 464, 444, Advanced, Excel, 4627, Palm and then I've also spent money on my other waxes for my melts. I have 8 different size and style jars (hexs, tureens, jelly, mason, status, teddy bear, tumblers, apothecary and maybe more), and about 50 different FO's. I have had to move everything to our basement because I took over the whole upper level of our home. I even have 100's of packing/shipping boxes, bubble wrap, tape etc. I have everything a person needs to run a business (even 1 million in insurance thru Brower). I have $1000's in inventory right now that I just look at and think OMG! What am I going to do with all this?!?  I have spent so much money on this I'm ashamed of it!! Especially because it just seems like such a huge failure that it breaks my heart!

 

Wow - that was long! I don't get to let anyone 'inside my head' with my whole candle stuff because I feel like they don't understand. I feel like my family thinks I'm just a big failure because I put so much into this and got so excited about it and now it's one of the worse things I've ever done - putting my family in debt over wax :(

There is a wick company that you can send 3 candles to & they will find the right wick for you. I'll find the link & post when I do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Emily Anne don't be so hard on yourself. We all went through a similar struggle.

 

I do have a suggestion and it works. But you have to stick with it. Pick one wax. ONE. And work with it. Stick with it until you have your candle. By the time you learn how to make that one candle you should know just about everything there is to know about that wax.

 

Also, check with other candlemakers on this forum or other candle forums to see if you can enlist their help with testing them out for you. What you want is effective critique you can rely on to improve your candle.

 

Once you have that wax down then you can move on to another. Having mastered one wax prepares you to work with others. I wish I had stuck with my paraffin until I perfected it.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Emily anne I can completely understand how you feel , I have been testing for 3 years now , I started out with paraffin couldn't get it right so moved on to soy wax then rapeseed wax , I also have hundreds of jars , I tried new jars thinking this will make it work and it didnt so I moved on to new wax and new jars and I had been going round in circles. However just this past month I feel like I am starting to understand abit more about how candles should burn . At first I thought that I had to accept mushrooms as no matter what I did I couldn't escape them , however I had a candle given to me that burned absolutely perfect, it required no wick trimming and there wasn't a shroom in sight! So then I started on a whole lot of new testing where I didn't want my candles to get mushrooms, I picked one wax and one brand of wicks and also one jar, the jar I have started with is small it's only a 4 oz jam jar and I have managed to wick 2 fragrances now that do not need wick trimming and they get no mushrooms, so now what I do is I make up 6 candles with 2 different wick sizes with fragrance % 6,7 and 8 and then I light them and watch them all burn. The 2 candles that I made that burned perfect had 8% fragrance yet I made another candle with a different fragrance with 8% and that burned not so good so I remade it with 7% fragrance and that burned better with no mushrooms but still not quite right so I will remake again with 6% fragrance and if it's not strong enough or still doesn't burn right I will move onto another fragrance. So fragrance % really does seem to affect the burn of a candle.

How long did you test the xcel wax for? And what wicks did you use ? X

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Emily anne I can completely understand how you feel , I have been testing for 3 years now , I started out with paraffin couldn't get it right so moved on to soy wax then rapeseed wax , I also have hundreds of jars , I tried new jars thinking this will make it work and it didnt so I moved on to new wax and new jars and I had been going round in circles. However just this past month I feel like I am starting to understand abit more about how candles should burn . At first I thought that I had to accept mushrooms as no matter what I did I couldn't escape them , however I had a candle given to me that burned absolutely perfect, it required no wick trimming and there wasn't a shroom in sight! So then I started on a whole lot of new testing where I didn't want my candles to get mushrooms, I picked one wax and one brand of wicks and also one jar, the jar I have started with is small it's only a 4 oz jam jar and I have managed to wick 2 fragrances now that do not need wick trimming and they get no mushrooms, so now what I do is I make up 6 candles with 2 different wick sizes with fragrance % 6,7 and 8 and then I light them and watch them all burn. The 2 candles that I made that burned perfect had 8% fragrance yet I made another candle with a different fragrance with 8% and that burned not so good so I remade it with 7% fragrance and that burned better with no mushrooms but still not quite right so I will remake again with 6% fragrance and if it's not strong enough or still doesn't burn right I will move onto another fragrance. So fragrance % really does seem to affect the burn of a candle.

How long did you test the xcel wax for? And what wicks did you use ? X

My Twin! HEE HEE! :D

Great post!

Edited by ChandlerWicks
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Emily Anne - I want to share my experience so you know that your not alone and that you shouldn't feel ashamed.

 

I too have buried a lot of cash.  $20k+ (I stopped counting at $20k).  I too have an entire living room of stock.  I am an Analyst by trade, and I started this business with my Fiance.  I thought 'How hard could it be making a candle'...... Well I think we will both vouch; it's not.

 

The one thing, like any tradesmen, it's understanding your tools.  Persist, persist persist, and in a few months you'll be the one on this message board giving help to those around you.

 

May I suggest, if you are struggling, to take a methodical approach; Which I have started doing and made some good leg way with.

 

1 - Keep your method for making your candles the same EVERY time.  I.e  Make a wicking tool that wicks your double wicked candles the same width apart everytime.  Ensure you heat the wax to the same temperature every time, add your fragrance at the same temperature everytime, and poor it at the same temperature; everytime

2 - Select a wick suited to your wax, and make 1 candle of each size wick WITHOUT FRAGRANCE.  It's important you understand what your wax does without fragrance, so you can see the effect your fragrance has when you add fragrance to it.  i.e  2 x HTP 62 may work for you and the candle burns beautifully.  Add %5 and it may still burn well. Add %8 and it may stop burning.  So you go down to 7%, then 6%.  You must be methodical.

3 - Note down the beginning middle and end burn of your candle.  Eliminate any wicks that do not burn for you in your wax without fragrance.  If the wick does not burn without fragrance then the likelihood is it will not burn well with fragrance.

4 - Repeat steps 2 & 3 for another brand of wick you think will work in your wax.  Repeat this over each wick you have in your living room, until you have a list of wicks that are working without fragrance.  

5 - Once you've identified candles that burn nicely without fragrance, start adding at 5% and see how that effects the burn.  It may burn great; so try 7%, and see how you go.  You will likely have to wick up, but make sure when wicking up you are not using a wick that did not burn without fragrance.

 

A few things I've learnt in my 8 months of testing (without a successful candle)

 

1 - The start can be slow in an initial burn; by the time it gets to the bottom of the container, the melt pool will be bigger and the jar will be hotter.

2 - Just because a wick size is higher in number does not mean it will perform the same, and just burn hotter.  One example is this.  I use HTP in 4627.  The HTP 52, 62 and 93 are the only wicks that will burn successfully every time in my candles.

     - HTP 83 burns hotter than the 93 and has an out of control flame; and turns the wax black

     - HTP 72 and 73 drown out half way down the jar, and turns the wax brown

     - HTP 52 and 62 burn perfectly;  They do not soot, they do not turn the wax a nasty colour and they burn a perfect melt pool by the 3rd burn

     - HTP 93 performs almost the same as the 52 and 62 with the exception of a hotter burn. and an ever so slightly deeper melt pool.  

     - All of the above wicks performed the same with fragrance in them (8%); so now I know the fragrance is not my issue and I can focus on performing the same tests on other wick brands.

3 - When you read posts about 'drowning wicks' or something similar; do not assume what you read is whats happening.  Only you can determine the issue through testing.  Write some test cases down and just work through them until you've proven to yourself what caused that particular issue.  Experience is the only way to learn.

4 - Not every fragrance will give a great throw.  Pick something that you know has a strong throw and only test with that. Remember Vanilla's are hard to burn.

5 - Sometimes less is more, don't assume throwing more fragrance at the problem is going to help.  and don't assume going up a wick size will either.

 

That is just my 2c worth.  I wanted to give you what I've learnt over the last 2 weeks since I've now been taking methodical steps to eliminate elements as the problems.  In the last week I have determined that there are only 3 wicks in the HTP range that I can use and I now know that I can focus my efforts on finding other wicks that will fill the gap for when I may need to deviate from the HTP 52 62 or 93.

 

Hope this helps.  Keep at it; your not alone!

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OH and one more thing!  This caught me out for months

 

You work with the fragrance all day long; after pooring your candles; you can't smell the fragrance and the likelihood is that when you burn them you can't either

 

Example

 

I was hooked on trying to load 12% fragrance in a candle because I thought it wasn't throwing, and the 4627 claims to hold %12.  One of my most critical friends kept telling me the one thing I need to do is make sure that the candles throw well or they wont sell.   I finally loaded it up and got it to burn (only half way down) by adding 8% fragrance; so I shipped out these candles which were only burning half way down to get feedback.  Within 24 hours my family and friends were all ringing me telling me they were too strong and they had to extinguish them within 30 minutes. ME:  Couldn't smell a thing!  Yet my brother claims his house still smells of vanilla 3 weeks on!

 

I now dose them at 5% and they burn well and the hot throw is amazing.  I use a vanilla; and it's a very thick vanilla.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...