xxxAlpha71xxx

I've gotten a bit frustrated myself and have a new approach. I've done a bunch of testing that shows that a CD 10 wick in 6006 wax in an 8 oz elite jar from FC works for a lot of the scents I've tested . If I make a test candle that doesn't work with a CD10 then I'm just putting that scent to the side to re-visit later. Now, if I can just get those 8 oz tins to cooperate....

Thanks TT. I think my problem is that I get hung up on what I used to think was happening in the interaction between wax and wick vs what is actually happening. Having never really considered the relationship between the wax and the wick I guess I just kind of assumed that the wick was kind of a conveyance mechanism for the flame vs what it actually is, a conveyance mechanism for the wax. I guess the term "wick" should have been a hint. Viscosity never entered my mind. I was in construction quality control for 25+ years. Virtually every single material used in construction has to be tested in accordance with ASTM's to ensure they met specifications. I mean everything from aggregates, asphalt cement, nuts and bolts, concrete, and soils. You name it and it pretty much has a test method and associated spec governing it. And it wasn't just tested once. The contractor had to do Quality Control testing, the state DOT did Quality Assurance testing to verify the contractors results, then the Feds would pop in every so often to do verification testing to make sure the contractor and the state were both doing their job correctly. With all of the testing (read that overkill) we had to do and specs we had to meet I wonder if wax manufacturers have specifications they have to meet and who sets those specifications. I know there's an ASTM for candle safety but I'm not sure if there are actual specifications regarding the wax properties themselves. It seems that I see a lot of people talking about how wax can change from case to case. You'd think that there would be some requirements that manufacturers have to meet to make sure that doesn't happen.

Do you see any comments/complaints from people regarding the level of materials in a container candle? I would expect that there could be a considerable difference in the level of wax from one candle to another depending on the density and percentage of the FO used, along with the size of the container.. I've never actually paid attention to that sort of thing when I've seen candles at retailers....until I started attempting to make candles myself. Do your customers seem to notice/care? That brings up another question. When you fill do you weigh each candle? Or do you just weigh the first and fill the rest to that approximate level?

I was just reading around looking at wax information that, once I really sat down and thought about it, just seems backwards to me. General knowledge indicates that a soy wax like 464 will require a larger wick than a para soy blend like 6006. However, 6006 is listed as having a melt point of 133F while 464 is listed as 119F-125F. I know there's an explanation for this but it escapes me. Can someone please explain why the lower melt point wax requires a larger wick than the wax with the much higher melt point? I need a book that covers the chemistry and behaviors of different wax types; wick series behaviors, pros, and cons; an outline of proper wick testing procedures with photos of a successful test from start to finish; how specific gravity of a fragrance oil affects wick size requirements; how to eliminate or at least minimize mushrooming; candle safety; maximizing patience and eliminating shortcuts during the curing and testing process; as well as how to make the world's best margarita. For starters.

On the weight vs volume topic: With measuring and proportioning our materials by weight how then do you go about filling (and labeling) your containers? By weight or by volume?

Thanks @bfroberts. I thought I was going insane. This is the 2nd 60 pound case of 6006 I've gotten from CS-around a month apart-and I've seen similar results with both. I need to go check the lots and see if they are the same. Add HTP 105 to the list. I didn't have pics of that one but it had similar results. I've got the 8 oz Elite jars from FC and they seem to work pretty well with most scents with a CD10. I've also got some regular 8 oz Ball canning jars that I'm playing around with that seem to be doing ok with either a CD 8 or a Z51. I messed around with some of the 12 oz Elite jars from FC and was looking at around a CD18. I'm thinking that I may use the 6006 for those 8 oz jars.. For the tins, I've got some ProBlend 600 I can play around with and there's always 464.

Forrest has done some excellent work on testing 6006 with 8 oz tins and has indicated that, for the majority of his tins, a Zinc 51 seems to work well. I'm not sure if it's the wax I have, the tins I am using, sea level, how I'm holding my mouth, or what shoes I'm wearing but my results aren't coming up anywhere close. Regardless of scent or percentage I haven't had a successful (at least, what I have been considering to be successful) test on anything smaller than a Z60 on any of the scents I've tried, with that not being large enough in a lot of cases. I went back to the drawing board and put together some tins with 100% 6006, no scent, no dye, aged one week with the idea that I was going to overwick them (based on what I've read about wick sizes, 8 oz tins, and 6006 wax) just to see what would happen. The only ones I felt might not be too far out of line were the ECO 10 and the Z60. In these photos are ECO 10, Zinc 60, LX 22, LX 24, CD 14, CD 16. This was about 2.5 hours into burn #5. At this point I'm not even sure what I'm looking at. I guess what would really be helpful is if someone had photos of a successful 8 oz tin wick test that they could post. That would give me an actual idea of what I should be looking for, EDIT: Peak temps on the outside of tins at this point is 105F.

Candles and Supplies is where I got those. I wasn't happy with one of the packs I received but they've sent out a replacement so can't complain about their customer service.

Ignore me. I'm an idiot. Found a topic Forrest made about this very thing just a few days ago.

Does anyone out there have a reliable source for RRD and RRD NS-2 wicks? I ordered some to play around with but wasn't real happy with what I received. The 40s that were in the order pretty much missed out on the priming wax and had a terrible amount of bends and breaks. I'm probably going to have much better luck finding a consistent and reliable source if I ask you guys instead of Google. Pic is 34, 37, three 40s, and a 47. Thanks Chris

Wow, search is your friend. I just posted a poll on this yesterday....then ran across this post searching for various topics on 8 oz tins.

Went to a craft fair with my wife today and of the 4 vendors that were selling candles none of them were using dye. For curiosity sake do you dye your candles? Why or why not?

I just made a set that's going into my storage closet. With dye: CD8, LX18 Zinc 51 WI 755 HTP 104 ECO 8 Did another CD8 without dye. See you in a couple of weeks.

I *know* I need an intervention. I woke up yesterday morning and told my wife that someone had emailed me and told me that a Premier 765 would work perfect in an 8 oz tin. When you start dreaming about candles and wicks....well, the first step is you have to realize and admit that you have a problem

Left to right CD 8, 10, and 12. The CD 8 cleaned up very well. The CD 10 and 12 left quite a bit of wax in the corners. Should I be happy with what I'm seeing on the CD8 even if it never achieved a "full melt pool"?

I'm not even really sure what I should be looking for at this point. Using any wick I try I *never* achieve a full melt pool. However, CD8, CD10, and CD12 will all clean up the sides by the time they are finished. Should I be content with that or should I be looking for that elusive pool of melted wax that runs from one side of the tin to the other?

That they are. I have a set I started testing this morning. 8 oz tin 6006 wax 185/170 7% Candle Science Day at the Spa CS Blue liquid dye Cured 1 week 76F room temp It's early but after first burn out of the CD's the CD 8 and CD 10 have equal melt pools, larger than CD12. CD8 and CD10 are mushrooming pretty badly and the CD12 has none. Be interesting to see how these do as they burn lower. I'm taking pics of these as I go. If they're interesting at all I'll put them together and post them so you can give me some of your expert advice on what I'm seeing.

I've actually seen the same thing. A CD 12 in my 8 oz tin just burrows a hole down through the middle leaving a good 3/8" + wax ring around the sides. A CD 8 however, while not necessarily making a nice melt all the way across, leaves much less wax on the sides and cleans that up pretty well as it burns lower. I just decided to stick with the CD 8s.

When you guys perform wick testing on multiple candles concurrently how far apart are you spacing your containers? I see a lot of wick testing on YouTube where they have 10, 15, 20 candles on a table all crowded up next to one another. It seems that would skew the results because the heat given off by the candles is going to increase the air temperature in the immediate vicinity to much more than what the air temp around a candle burning by itself would be.

I am so grateful to you for this list. I've now actually done a set of burns from the bottom of the list to the top in an 8 oz tin and the visuals have caused me to reevaluate a lot of the assumptions I had made about wick sizes. The one major thing I've realized is that it is possible for a candle to be overwicked and not reach a full melt pool. In a lot of instances I had started with a larger wick than required then, when I didn't get a full melt pool, kept going up and up when I really should have been using a smaller wick than the original. I had a container/scent combo that seemed to require a CD16-18. When I went back and started smaller (as you recommended from the very begining-sorry, I can be a bit hard headed) and moved up the list I hit a winner at Zinc 60. It seems that some of the larger wicks were melting so fast in the center that the heat wasn't having a chance to reach the edges. Same thing with a different container-CD 8 but actually worked better going down to an HTP 83. Changing that perspective put me into a place where I also found that zinc wicks don't actually mushroom as bad as what I had seen previously because I'm no longer overwicking. It was really frustrating to see that no matter what scent, no matter what percentage, no matter what dye every 8 oz tin I did seemed to require a larger wick than anything on this list. Now that I've actually seen how each of these wicks burn (and quit trimming them down to pretty much a nub) my testing is now lining up much better with what I've read from you and others. This list has been a huge part of finally getting my head wrapped around how different wicks and sizes perform and I've been able to get through some of that frustration. Thanks everyone that's put time and effort into this!

Where do you think a Zinc 36 would fit in this list?

Another thing that I've found works well-and what in using now-is just a plain old pair of wire cutters Something like this.

While my wife and I absolutely can't stand it I've made a few and given them out to friends who love it. Guess it's just not something my nose enjoys because other people seem to.

Post Revival Time: I've been fighting this issue since I started this. One of the larger candle manufacturers (I won't mention their name but it rhymes with Yankee Candle) suggests 1/8" wick length, so tha't's what I've been doing. It's been killing me because no matter what I did, no matter what wax, no matter what fragrance, percentage or dye my wick needs didn't match hardly anything I had seen browsing through the board. Looking at the wick list Forrest made the smallest wick I needed for an 8 oz tin was larger than the largest wick on their list. I know there are differences as variables change but it just didn't make sense to me that every combination I tried was way out of the top side of that list.....until two days ago. I took a few candles to my wife and told her to trim them as if she had just bought them and brought them home. Yep, more like 1/4" or so. Made a huge difference and the tins are now testing more in line with the results that Forrest published.

I'm playing around with some of your designs (and thank you very much!) but I was actually looking at 4 oz tins. I was working on my first top to bottom burns and it was looking like I was going to have a lot of wax left on the sides and in the corners at the bottom. Was thinking about glue to lower the wick to give it a bit longer to burn and clean up that wax. However, they burned *much* longer than I expected they were going to and cleaned themselves up by the time they were done. I tried glueing some wicks in using some hot glue my wife had. The minute I went to center them after the pour I ended up holding them in my hand at the glue didn't stand up to 170 very well. That's why I was looking at high temp glue. However, as the problem I was expecting didn't appear I'm just going to stick with what I was doing. I'll let you know how things go with the centering device once I get it made. If it works as well as it appears that it will it might be something you should consider marketing. Those centering devices that CS sells have limited functionality. The manufacturer is supposedly willing to resize them but the emails I sent to the included address all bounced so I eventually ended up sizing it to the sizes I needed myself (yay, Dremel).