Stella1952

Yep.

I'm delighted you are having fun and your soapies look fine! The colors are pure and springy!!

Mine usually went DOS in 2 weeks so I can't use it that quick lol. I bought one of those giant cans last year made many batches and they all did the same thing. Even the laundry soap bars went.

DAYUM!! Sometimes I wonder how long some of the cans sit on the shelves before we buy them... and how old the ingredients were when they made the stuff, etc. I have a feeling this is a good example of poor quality control in manufacturing facilities...

As rj said - you have to test, but sometimes I use this chart to get a ball-park idea of how different wicks roughly compare to one another...

http://www.wickit.net/recommendations.html

I love sample kits of wicks for this reason. One gets a wide range of sizes from which to choose. I always figured SOMETHING in that bag has to work... LOLOL

The only thing I can figure (Stella) is somehow you have overcome the natural laws of physics and are able to produce a candle than magically never gets hot

Of course not, Steve. I simply test to insure that when people burn my candles according to the instructions, that the exterior of the container does not become too hot to handle. I thought that was what I was supposed to do... :undecided

BEAUTIFUL WORK!!

Now which is it? Make up your mind already.

My mind is very clear on this - I don't understand where yours is, however... All I can suggest is to READ and TRY to comprehend what's being written and communicated, not what you can "make" of it. I freely admit I am particular about the APPEARANCE of my candles (but hardly OCD - that's known as literary exaggeration for comic relief - sorry I confused you), but it's a step beyond "embracing" when we are leaving wicks untrimmed because candles are growing so much in storage that a customer (I'm always worried about that silly ol' customer who paid money for a candle) can open up the candle they purchased and have to hunt for the wick!! Is it DIFFICULT to understand how I might have the OPINION that that's problematic?!! And people worry about WET SPOTS? REALLY?!!!!! :rolleyes2:rolleyes2:rolleyes2

And yes, we are all well aware of those opinions...and....

I am SICK of this. Did you just join this discussion to throw a handful of feces at me? Or were you actually interested in the discussion and the question posed by the OP? Go pick on SOMEONE ELSE because I have had enough of YOUR PERSONAL insults and those of Horsescents as well. Do either of you have any concept of civil discourse? Shall I start calling names and hurling personal insults at you? Shall I make oblique remarks questioning your mental stability? Should I suggest medications for both of YOU? Is this what passes for discussion? Do you even know how to disagree or discuss ideas WITHOUT discussing the posters on a personal level and calling others out like teenagers in gangs? I'm not sure either of you knows HOW to discuss and be civil... :undecided

I'm going to say this once, out loud, in public: GET OFF ME. Please discuss ideas, share opinions about the topics being discussed, laugh, joke, dance, but leave personal comments about me out of the discussion. If others wish to tolerate your crap, that's up to them, but I am tired of ignoring your personal barbs and insults which flagrantly violate the TOS here. If you have nothing better to do with your time than take potshots at Stella, I have some suggestions for other activities for you... and you could do them today... in the privacy of your own home...

My sincere apologies to the OP and other posters engaged in legitimate discussion in this thread.

I was just trying to figure out if I needed to burn for the full three hours to figure out if a container is overwicked since, for me, the first burn doesn't seem to be a good indicator.

When you are testing candles to see if you have the right wicking, you do not burn them under any kind of fan or in a draft.

If the candle smokes so much that it sets off the smoke detector, the most likely issue is that candle system is NOT working, unless you either have a smoke detector that is poorly located, too sensitive, or dinner's ready. A candle should not smoke excessively during ANY part of its burn. If the candle's componenent ingredients (formula) is out of whack, it won't matter what wick you use - the wax will not burn well.

To ascertain how a wick will perform in a container candle, you need to burn the candle all the way to the bitter end because conditions in the container change as it burns down. Burning for 15 minutes, pulling the wick from here, inserting into there, etc. is a waste of time. When you are trying to get solid testing data, it pays to use a methodical approach. Your approach is all over the place and so your data will be skewed.

As for WHY the wick is smoking, you did not provide any more answers about the candle and its composition, so I can't offer any more ideas to assist. Good luck! :-)

Why do you tell someone anything is a "bad idea" if it is their choice and nothing is going to be harmed by it except the possibility of some amount of soy swelling if they store it for a long time?

I believe that the right to possess and express a personal opinion extends even to me. When I am writing anything, unless I quote another source, what I write IS my opinion. You are free to take it or leave it. I'll stand by what I said.

As far as "older soy candles". Am going to beg to differ on that as well.

I'll just bet you will... :rolleyes2

Two weeks ago..give or take...I lit up an old soy candle. It was from approximately 2002-2004. It burned like a champ with amazing HT.

Excellent!! I have similar experiences BECAUSE I PAY ATTENTION TO FROSTING ISSUES.

No one has said nor implied that frosting impacts how a candle BURNS - it's a cosmetic issue. If you don't mind a customer opening a candle and seeing something that looks like brains, or can't find the wick, that is your choice - it won't impact the burn nor the HT (once the wick is located). I don't make it a practice to sell old candles. I think my customers deserve fresh ingredients.

As far as shelf life, every soy wax manufacturer lists an expiration date for their wax. Generally, it's one year. Under good storage conditions, it can last far longer. Same with FOs, etc. I don't think even the people nitpicking and arguing in this thread will disagree that FRESH ingredients make the highest quality products.*

*(oh god, I've gone and done it again... SOMEONE is going to post that I'm 100% wrong again and they ALWAYS AGE their soy wax and FO before using and that there's nothing wrong with doing that and there is no law that says they can't...)

Candles made with fresh ingredients that are burned within a few months of being poured are generally the best quality. Pardon me if I incorrectly assUmed that we are always trying to make high quality products for sale to customers.

Just more hair splitting. The brief flare up of a wick is not going to speed up a full melt pool. A flare up might last 30 seconds or a minute max and then the extra wick is gone and begins sucking wax. A fast forming melt pool would be due to over wicking the container and even then its going to take some time for that to be achieved. My cow, it takes a few minutes for a full force heat gun to melt the top of a 3 to 4 inch container so how in the world does a lowly wick hasten fmp? More hooey. IMHO

I think it's a load of hooey, too, Steve. That's why I don't do it. Thanks for bringing up those points.

Ask yourself "what is above the stove top"

The fan? The range hood? The oven? The microwave?

Is an "extractor" some kind of super duper vent fan or range hood or what?

I'm not familiar with the term, which is why I asked... Do you know what it is, Pam?

What kind of wax? What kind/how much FO? Additives/amts.? What kind of wicks/sizes? Which of the various FOs & wicks smoked? How long were the wicks trimmed initially? Did you trim them before beginning the second burn? To the same length?

What's an "extractor"?

Container candles do burn differently on the first burn vs. subsequent burns, especially as they go lower and lower into the container. Perhaps it has something to do with the fresh wick initially, but that doesn't last long! I think it has more to do with the level of the candle being closer to the top and the way the air currents set up as the candle burns down into the container. Photos would help...

I've used the regular Crisco in soap without it developing DOS or going rancid, but I don't use a very high percentage of it.

While using butter flavored Crisco has a major *ick* factor for me (I just can't reconcile butter flavor + soap), I see no reason why you couldn't use it successfully. Even if it DOSs or separates or some other horrid soap thing, it won't blow up your kitchen, so I think you should go play with SoapCalc and then go for it!! Maybe it will turn out so well I'll have to get over my *ick* factor and try it myself! :laugh2:

*Moan, Whine*

I wish I had never seen that nifty calibration kit... want creates suffering... :undecided

that quarter info is very cool too.

Absolutely!! Thanks, LL, for that tip. That will keep me from pining over the kit above...

I like turtles

Me too!

You can argue until the cows come home, Horsescents. You can rudely write "100% wrong" in your argumentative opinions as many times as you like. We ALL have opinions and interpretations. When mine differ, I try to err on the side of customer safety and protection of chandlers from product liability. In the link YOU posted in a different thread, the author pointed out that it's very important for people to pay strict attention to the standards because even though they are voluntary, in a court of law, those standards WILL BE BROUGHT UP as if they were mandatory.

You are 100% WRONG, Stella. The end of a candle's useful life is when it stops burning safely, and you can design a candle that burns all the way down to the bottom and consumes all the wax safely.

You can do whatever you wish. It is near impossible to do what you are advocating, not in a lab setting, but in real life and common practice for every container candle, for every wax type and for every chandler. You can continue to argue but what you advocate (ie. designing container candles for a 100% burn) is irresponsible, IMHO.

I'm sorry, Horsescents, but you are just arguing for the sake of argument. If the NCA makes that recommendation to consumers, don't you think it's a real good idea that WE AS CHANDLERS go along with it? SHEESH!!!

If I recommend that the customer should trim the wick to 1/4", that's how the candle should begin as well. An old trick of the trade was to leave the wick longer for the first burn so that it would achieve FMP faster. Perhaps that's a good idea with paraffin, but for palm wax or soy wax, there is no race for FMP, particularly on the first burn. This might also be advantageous for certain shapes of containers, but it's asking a bit much for customers to understand that for the first burn, we leave it longer and cut it shorter on subsequent burns. It's tough enough to get them to even trim a wick in the first place!

Since the NCA also recommends that candle wicks be trimmed to 1/4" (regardless of type or wax), I think that's a real good idea to follow.

http://www.candles.org/safety_rules.html

"...As I mentioned, the ASTM F2417 standard requires that candles come to the end of their useful life without any secondary ignition, excessive flame height or cracking of the container (if there is one). It does not specify how that is to be achieved nor does it discuss wick tab height."

While what the NCA considers "the end of a candle's useful life" is not defined in the ASTM standard (probably because it varies by candle type - ie. container, pillar, votive, tealight, taper), since they recommend that customers extinguish a container candle at 1/2", I think logic could easily lead one to the conclusion that somewhere around 1/2" remaining in a CONTAINER candle is what is considered the "end of a candle's useful life."

high scent load in most of my candles (normally 12-13%)

That is over double the manufacturer recommendations for C3 and C1 (same for both waxes).

"The recommended fragrance load for this wax is 6% or less, although a 7 to 10% fragrance loads

may be added with the addition of additives to help control the fragrance"

I have great results in C3 using 5.88% (1 weighed oz. per 16 oz. of wax, or 1 oz. PP). Overuse of FO will cause wicking difficulties and frosting issues. Using more does not net a better or stronger HT - in fact, it can diminish it because of the burn issues encountered. Backing off on the FO percentage will help with your burn issues, allow you to get the same HT from less FO and save money.

I use CDNs and CDs for C3. HTH :-)

Who said a 3 inch container? I didn't. I just said that in my experience these larger wicks are more prone to throw soot, my solution is to double wicks. Now if we want to discuss container size, I don't need to do this until 4 inches.

The candle the OP is discussing is a 3" container candle (Post #1), that, when wicked with an LX24 (Post #5), resulted in sooting of the container to some extent. Before trying the LX 24, she was seeing wisps of smoke with ECO 8. Originally, she thought no smoke was produced using the LX 24, but then on a subsequent burn, noticed the soot.

Doesn't matter what size container you are using - if you use a wick that's too big for it, you can expect soot. I don't think it has to do with just the higher sizes wicks - it's the mismatch of the container size & wick size that causes the conditions where the wick's flame is likely to produce more soot.

VERY KOOL!! You are doing GREAT with those felted soapies!!

...dripping green with envy...

So do we get to see a pic of the rebatch?

Well, obviously, weight is weight. What's important is to have several different weights to check the low, middle and high end of the scale's capabilities. The kit below, $20.90 from Old Will Knott Scales, seems to have nearly any size weight for calibration that any of us would need for our scales...

http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/calibration-weight-set-red-17-piece-class-m2.html

Here's all the calibration weights they carry in case you just want to buy a couple or three...

http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/calibration-weights-sets.html

HTH :-)

(I LOVE looking at the Old Will Knotts Scales site... it's the ultimate candy store of scales. Who knew they had so many different kinds of scales?!!! They even have accessory bird perches for weighing birds!!)

larger type wicks, CD-22, LX-24, and others

In a 3" container, one would not be using a CD 22! A CDN or CD 14 should work fine (range from 12 -16 for the sake of argument). I have no idea how large an LX 24 is, 'cause I don't use 'em, but if it is THAT much too large for that size container, that certainly might be an issue. I don't see that sooting is any extra problem with large CDN wicks when used in a wide container... if used in a container that's way small for that particular size of wick, well, SURE - doodoo can and will occur!