mamacat

I'm starting to think home-based businesses aren't even legal without them coming right out and saying so! I've been looking into some things and finding nothing but road blocks so far. It's like you have to be a rich corporation to get anywhere (legally). First, insurance- My homeowners insurance states that it won't cover the "part or entire" home used for business purposes. It seems like most home owners insurance won't cover and will drop you completely. Business insurance seems to offer liability only (product and outside of the home stuff, like craft shows). The most coverage I can find is from Brower Insurance with their Artist Program but the property insurance only covers the equipment inside, not the house itself. So what happens if there is a fire from a candle or something? Then while looking for something completely different I came across my local zoning laws. They basically don't allow any home business or even storing of inventory. Am I living in a very strict neighborhood or is this common? I won't have customers coming to the house or advertise from it, so I didn't think about this before and not sure what to make of it. So what are all of you doing? Do you have insurance that really covers you and your home (not just product liability)? Can you share which company you are using? What about your zoning laws? I'm not in business yet but looking at this I'm not sure if I'll ever be. Thanks!

Breaking it down like that helps me feel better, thank you! I guess I panicked and am not thinking clearly. I did let her know what could happen, but she replied that I was paranoid and acting crazy and that I'm taking a craft way too seriously. She didn't take responsibility for anything or agree to stop selling them, just turned it around like I'm being irrational and said I'm making a mistake by letting potential customers down and if anyone screwed anything up it was me. She just doesn't get it. Honestly, if the chances of this causing trouble are very slim, should I purchase liability insurance right now if I'm not going to give anything else away until I'm ready for business? I don't even know how to apply with some companies I browsed since they ask for business info and income generated from it. I don't even have a business plan yet, just playing around with creating, testing and perfecting right now. I know having insurance is always the safest thing but if I don't have it in my budget right now and am not ready for selling, is it wise or a waste of money? Am I even eligible really?

Oh no, I was just joking about denying they're mine. This was definitely a lesson learned. I really wish I could contact these people, just to be in the know and set things straight with them. I feel horrible about all of this. I sent a calm email to my mother (she isn't answering her phone) and it's pretty clear that she's not going to let me contact them. She's spazzing out and getting overly defensive right now, but said that when she gave out the duds she let them know that they were "misfit bars". I can't believe she knowingly sold any of them! It really worries me. I've been looking at liability insurance today and have only seen a couple options that also cover candles. Are there companies out there that offer installment payments? I don't have $500+ to put out right now, this is why I was planning on waiting until next year, we were going to use our tax return to pay for the costs of going into business if I were ready then. It seemed so common on here for people to hand out testers to their family and friends, and I figured most people doing this as a hobby and gifting them out most likely aren't insured. I've been meaning to do things the right way and responsibly (that's why I never handed out a candle no matter how much she begged, and haven't sold any final products) but didn't really think of this scenerio happening.

The soaps were wrapped unlabeled and placed in a ziploc bag that I wrote on. The clamshells were just written on with a Sharpie the scent and % of FO I used, just for my own use and to check cure time differences. Nobody contacted me, they contacted my mother and she copy/pasted that part of their email in an email she wrote to me. She could give them my contact info but isn't giving me theirs. I think she's just afraid I'm going to make her look bad. I think my mom's request for making tea tree and OMH for my grandfather is actually a request from her coworkers...or her. I don't know.

Come to think of it, I could deny that these soaps were made by me, couldn't I? LOL

No, I just gave it to them in a ziploc baggy with the scent and type since that's all they cared to know. I don't know if my mom would repackage it if she were selling it. I don't know if these people think they're getting EOs from her telling them or her labeling them that way.

That's what I was afraid of. I had all intentions of having insurance before I started to sell or if I thought they would have ended up in other hands. I just didn't think it was necessary right now with just my family trying them, they would have laughed if I thought I needed it in regards to them. Ugh that woman. Hubby's not going to be happy about this, I told him I wouldn't be doing this until next year . Okay, thank you! Oh- do I need a business name for insurance or anything else right now before I apply?

Thank you for the replies, I'm definitely not giving her anything else unless it's a gift. I don't have product liability insurance yet, and both my mom and uncle know this.They were the only two people that were supposed to use them and give feedback, they knew this. I do try them out myself first, I'm just looking for a second opinion. BUT, the biggest mistake is that I've given her things that weren't even meant to be tested just because she asked for them- like the melts made from leftover wax, and there have been a batch of soaps that I had miscalculated the FO and it irritated my hands. I was holding onto them to just remelt with more soap base to just keep around the house but she saw them, sniffed them, loved how strong they were and I told her what was up with them. She said she could really use them as they were, that nothing bothers her skin and I told her no because they seriously gave me an itchy rash and she just stuck them in her purse and said don't worry about it, just start over if I want them weaker but they won't hurt her. She is a bit of a freeloader and I didn't care too much about keeping them and thought there was no point in arguing if she's been warned. But now I'm afraid they've been sold. Then there are the ones from when I first started and was having a hard time dissolving the powder colorants. They were just embarrassing, but she wanted them. Aside from my emotions, can what she did hurt me legally or business-wise later? I have no idea who these people are that she's selling them to. While she told the woman in the email that they were testers, she didn't tell that family she gave the first bunch to. I don't trust her. She is knowingly misrepresenting FOs as EOs. (She mentioned a few months ago that I should do only EOs because that's what people want and I told her it's not in my budget right now and I like a variety of scents but am planning to do both. She's using it as a selling point and I'm the one who looks like a fraud.) Everything was unlableled other than scent and type, like "Goat's Milk- Lavendar" or "Castile- Eucalyptus Spearmint". No ingredients or business name or anything...by me anyway. Will I be held responsible (legally) if something were to happen right now or will she since they weren't meant to be sold? And if she claims to be trying to help me create a customer base for when I start selling (which I never wanted her to do, especially like this), aren't they going to be really really upset when they see these aren't EO soaps? What if I charge LESS than my mother did, will that become my problem if they felt like they've been cheated paying more for testers? I really don't want to start things off this way, I feel like I've been sabotaged.

I am so upset right now and not sure what to do. I am making candles, melts, and M&P soap with the intentions of selling in the future, but I'm not ready for business yet. I have never given anyone a candle to test, but have given soaps and melts to my mother and uncle to try out for their opinions. None of these were final products. My uncle has been great with giving me specific feedback and I love having a male perspective on scents. My mother, I'm afraid has basically screwed me. The first bunch of soaps that I gave her she gave away to an unemployed friend to help them out and didn't want to ask them for feedback. She wanted more to try for herself and I told her I needed her feedback on them, that I can't afford to just give them all away. While she was here she saw a stack of melts on my shelf and asked to test them too. I told her they were just the left over wax from my soy candles and aren't the wax blend I use for tarts. She sniffed a couple and asked for them anyway and I said sure but they don't come out of the clamshell as easily and don't last as long. She ended up taking all of them. A couple weeks later I asked for her feedback on the soap. She said she was waiting to run out of her regular stuff but could I make something for my grandfather who had an itchy rash. I gave her a bar of tea tree & aloe and a bar of OMH to see if any of those would help. Every time I asked for feedback she would change the subject or say they smell good but she hasn't tried them yet. She said my pap liked the soaps and could use a lot more of both. Yesterday she called me and said her friend has a request for a liquid soap using specific ingredients and I told her I wasn't able to get into liquids or cold process yet. She got upset and said she already told her I could and can I just try. After we hung up she sent me an email begging me to just try it out and can I have it ready for when she comes to pick up the soaps for my pap next week. She copied and pasted a section of an email from her friend so I knew exactly what she wanted. The woman says in the email that she had a custom request of (made with two specific oils plus 3 essential oils only) and to put it in (a link to a specific glass jar). She said she will pay the usual $5 to test in case it's too liquid for her liking. She went on to say that in response of requested feedback, she loved the tea tree oil soap, that the oatmeal milk and honey didn't smell like much of anything so I should make sure it's an organic honey or add an eo, and that the coconut lime one was light in scent but it was acceptable since I'm using essential oil and not the '"fake perfumey junk" but they all feel good on her skin. She also said that the wax melts were perfumed so she gave them to her daughter, and that as long as I only use pure essential oils she will continue to test if I still want her to. I was livid. I gave away around $100 my cost of product to my mom for free and they weren't meant to be sold- I lost out and she profits? I never claimed any of these were made with eo's (the tea tree one was, the OMH was unscented and they were meant for my grandfather! The rest were fo's except a lavender but I don't know where that ended up). I don't want this woman (or anyone else) getting really upset when she finds out she was using the fo's she's so against, and I don't want to screw up my reputation before I even start! I don't want those 50 or so wax melt clamshells out there- they really weren't meant to be melts! I called my mom and just burst out with "you're selling the testers?!" and she said no, she gave them away to co-workers for faster feedback and when I pointed out the line in the email about $5 she got defensive about how she was only trying to help me, and how she needs money right now and that I don't appreciate her getting me customers and started to cry and hung up on me. I don't know how many she sold or to who, and if everyone is under the impression they're made exclusively with eo's when they're not, I don't know what to do. If anyone wants a refund I know my mom won't be able to give one and it will be on me to deal with. I don't like that none of these people have an ingredients list and may react to something. I feel like I should get in touch with them but don't think my mom will give me their info and I don't trust her to be the middle man. I don't want a bad reputation or lawsuit before I even make my first sale. What would you do in this situation?

I want to thank you all again for your advice. I think my frustration was sending me down the path of things spiraling out of control (jumping from 6% to 10% FO load, etc.) and I may have ended up throwing in the towel since NGI's recommendations just weren't working for me at all! I started adding the scent at 180F and while I didn't see much improvement with the Brandied Pear and the HTP and LX wicks, I am sitting here smelling Oakmoss and Amber at 7% with a CD8 filling the room! The first time I've had a good scent throw! I found my old sample bag of CDs but they only went up to an 8, so I popped one in just to see how it burns. Unfortunately the supplier these came from doesn't offer them anymore so my next set may act differently, but I'm leaning toward CDs now and ordered a few sizes from Candlewic. My next tester will be the same scent with 6% load since I'm still getting some waving and mushrooms, but at least it's holding off until the middle of the jar to act up. One thing I would like to fix is the wick placement due to the curling of the CD, it's really putting my melt pool off center by about 1/4", leaving a good amount of hang up on one side but depth on the other. If I move the wick over it looks bad to me, like the candle wasn't made correctly. Still lots to figure out. But again, THANK YOU for getting me back on track, I really appreciate it!

Thank you SO MUCH for your help!!! I'll just melt these ones down to tarts and will let you know how the new ones go. I'm finally excited to try again, I was really losing hope there, thank you! :smiley2: I'd like to try CDs again but shipping kills me from the suppliers I've found. I ordered the last ones from Wholesale Plus when they had candle stuff since they had a free shipping offer, now I've just been ordering from Peaks and CandleScience. (I'm in western PA if there's a nearby supplier I don't know about .)

Hi everyone, I've been lurking on here and trying to make candles for about a year now, and am yet to make a successful candle. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. At first I started off with EcoSoya Advanced in votive jars thinking it would be a cost effective way to get the feel of things. I wasn't able to correctly wick plain wax using HTPs, ECOs, or CDs and I tried a few scents with no throw at all so I junked the Advanced and votive containers figuring they're too small to get a good throw anyway and the wax just isn't the best choice. So then I moved on to EcoSoya CB 135 and Libbey Status Jars with the wicks I had left. Once again I cannot figure out a good wick or get a decent scent throw. Here is my latest try: EcoSoya CB135 with Brandied Pear from CS at 1oz/lb in a 3" diameter status jar, no dye, cured for 7 days, wick trimmed to 1/4" every 3 hr burn: HTP62: MP didn't completely reach sides after three burns and it mushroomed every time. Very light scent above candle only, but without a full MP I wasn't worried about it. It was the largest HTP I had at the time so I had to end it there. ECO6: There was a curl that burned a little off center. Each of the three burns gave a MP 1/8" deep on one side but left about 1/8" of wax on the other side of the glass. No mushroom. Scent was weak near candle. ECO8: First burn: The flame was balling and mushrooming after an hour. The MP after 3 hours was about 3/8" deep but left wax on sides, and the scent was more fuelish or just non-existant. Second burn: Same balling flame, it took the wax off the sides but the MP only made it to 1/8" deep that time with no scent again. Big mushroom. Third burn only lasted an hour since the flame was just nuts and a huge mushroom was forming. Took out the ECO8 and put in an ECO6 to see if there was something wrong with that jar. The ECO6 flame was fine, but the MP didn't make it to the sides of the jar, scent was there but very light above candle, no real throw though. I decided to just make a new one with more FO at that point and needed to order different wicks. I used the wax in my melter and it smelled strong and true, so now I'm thinking the fragrance load was fine but I already made the next candle. EcoSoya CB 135 Brandied Pear with 10% FO load in 3" diameter status jar, no dye, cured 7 days, 3 hr burns: LX16: MP only grew to 1/4" away from sides and started to tunnel after 3 burns. No scent throw at all. Small mushroom. LX18: MP just reached about 1/8" away from the sides of jar but it mushroomed big time after 2 hours and the flame started balling. The scent throw was light just near candle but had more of a fuelish smell than true scent. I was thinking it was over-scented? The second burn had a large mushroom and needed trimmed after an hour and the flame was balling so I ended that burn. Maybe the LXs burn too hot? HTP73: MP made it to 1/8" away from sides with a light throw near candle but smelled more perfumish than the last batch. After 3 burns it was obvious it wouldn't clear the sides. Small mushroom. HTP83: The flame was balling and flickering while growing a mushroom quickly, had more of a fuelish scent just like the LX18. MP would just reach sides at the end of 3 hours. After 2 burns I gave up on it. So now I'm not sure what to do next. Why are the wicks mushrooming and the flames balling but not creating a full melt pool? Do I continue to wick up? Wick down? Order new wick types? Is the problem too much FO? Should I try less than 1oz/lb even though that load barely gave a throw? Does the fact that it smelled good in a melter but no throw in the candle mean it's definitely a wick problem and not an issue with temps when I make them? In both sets I heated the wax to 180F, added FO at 150F and poured at 125F. Should I change any of those factors? Any advice is appreciated!

That's probably it then, thanks Beth! Maybe I'll give them a try. I hope that everything I already ordered when I was planning on using Ecosoya Advanced is compatible with it.

I understood what Camay was saying. The meaning of paraffin on an MSDS is good to know, thank you. But on this particular sheet when they say "paraffin wax" instead of just "paraffin" how would you interpret it? Would they still label it that way for any wax or does that mean paraffin type wax? Also there is a sentence under Health Data that says "Petroleum waxes studied were not found to be carcinogenic..." which made me think that paraffin type wax is included in this particular product, but I'm not extremely familiar with MSDS forms and if this is included as general information for any wax sheet, or only on the petroleum derived ones? I'm just trying to figure out how "organic" this wax really is and what's in it, and don't want to just rely on AccuBlend's answer since they're the ones advertising and selling it. If this is a parasoy blend then I don't think it meets my standards of "organic" and won't assume that the soy was organically grown, it's probably GMO also. I might as well go with any other soy wax then.

Sorry for my last post, it was cut off by my battery dying and I didn't realize it posted. I was on my tablet and must have touched submit before it turned off. Just disregard that little tangent lol, I guess the food allergies are why I'm sensitive to misleading labels, it is a big stress of mine. Anyways, one of the companies I emailed last week wrote back and told me that I can find the organic wax at accu-blend.com. I'm trying to figure out what this wax is, it just says Accu-Veggie #44 Organic Container wax. Has anyone used or heard of it? They don't list what is in it but looking at the MSDS sheet it looks like it could be a parasoy blend? Am I reading this right? http://www.accu-blend.com/PDF%20Files/all_nat-organic_msds.pdf Thanks again for the help!

Very insightful information and thank you for the suggestions! Still trying to figure out my feelings on all of this. That answered my question as to how GE soy oil could be GMO-free! Wow. Why do they even bother testing knowing there won't be any proteins in there to test? It's like when my daughter was diagnosed with food allergies, I did a ton of research (that's actually how I found out about GMOs since they're thought to be causing more food allergies) and allergists believe that it's the food's proteins that are allergenic which is why soy and peanut oil are considered safe for those with soy and peanut allergies. Well, there are a lot of allergic people who still react to the oil but they were dangerously misinformed because of lack of knowledge and testing, there are still a lot of unknowns yet they feel comfortable giving answers. I went through a period of mystery hives with my daughter and the allergist couldn't figure it out because they could only test for proteins and they didn't have a test for what I was suspicious of (annatto extract used as a natural coloring in her "safe" cheese and yogurt). He thought the extract wouldn't contain proteins so that couldn't be it, but after I cut it out of her diet she stopped reacting. Point being, whether it's allergens or GMOs or whatever else, if there is an important enough reason why people care if something is present in a product, there shouldn't be an answer unless it is a clear fact. Just because science pointed to a protein theory doesn't mean all other components are "clean", and oils shouldn't be labeled free of anything if they don't have a test for it, chances are something is there. And I swear I get more truthful and helpful information from forums than I do from "experts" when it comes to anything anymore LOL! Rant over.

Yep, those are the kind of claims that had me really believing there are non-GMO waxes out there when I started ordering supplies. And Ecosoya stating that they're "kosher certified" gave me more reason to believe that they're non-GMO, until I became curious as to what kosher actually means and came across articles that said they are trying hard to exclude GMOs from meeting kosher standards but it's hard to know what is GMO and what isn't due to lack of labeling, so certified kosher doesn't mean anything when it comes to GMOs right now. I always knew that actual candles couldn't possibly be organic, but assumed that those who claimed it meant that they have been made from organic soybeans which made up most of the candle. I thought that "all natural soy" meant a bean from mother nature, not developed by Monsanto. I thought if it said "GMO-free" it must not be GE or else the oil in turn would be GMO. There's been so much green-washing by people who seemed to be knowledgeable of these issues that I thought I was actually buying a non-GMO soy candle all these years. I don't really know where to go from here and feel like someone popped my balloon. I am for the most part a "green" person, but wanting GMO-free wax wasn't to market a green product, I was just excited to create beautiful, creamy, delicious smelling candles using a sustainable wax that could also benefit farmers who don't use GMOs as so many others claimed they were doing. I don't know if I "hate" Monsanto, but I personally feel that they are jeopardizing our health, land and future for the sake of power and profit and have been boycotting whenever possible. While burning a soy candle doesn't carry the same threat of ingesting GMO food, I have to figure out if I feel like I'm still supporting GE by making soy candles, or if I should think "if I can't beat 'em, burn 'em" and that it's less GM soy in our food. I don't want to be an extremist but don't want to be a hypocrite either I guess is what it comes down to. Sorry I'm rambling and thinking out loud. Maybe I should just explore other waxes but they haven't really appealed to me as much as soy before. And beeswax seems expensive.

Nobody? I see a lot of companies online claiming to make their soy candles out of 100% non-GMO or organic soy wax and have written to them but don't think they're going to share which wax they use (haven't had any replies in a week). If there is a wax I'd like to order it ASAP, otherwise I'm going to have to rethink using soy because I personally don't like the idea of GMO farming (it scares me lol) and would rather support a conventional or organic grower if possible. This isn't for marketing purposes, just my own concerns. Any suggestions on how to find this secret supplier? I understand that about 98% of our soybeans are GMO but it seems like there's someone in the 2% selling wax. I really don't want to give up the idea of making soy candles, I love them.

Hi, I'm completely new to candle making and am ordering my supplies to get started. I was wondering if there is a such thing as soy wax that is organic or non-GMO? I saw that Ecosoya claims to be free of GMO material but then I read deeper and saw that they just meant that the oil has been stripped from the pesticides and genetic material and that they are affiliated with a biotech farming organization. I'm having trouble finding a supplier that doesn't use GMO soy and was wondering if anyone else has found one? Thanks!