Wandering wick

Has two testers that I used this week and when they where close to the bottom the wick moved over to the side. I dont remember what temp I poured in but I do know that they where burning these for a few hours when this happened. I am using a 9oz hex jar with a zinc wick and igi6006 wax. Not sure what I did wrong but I have been pouring at 170 now but dont remeber what temp I poured those in. Am I not using enough glue? Please help:(

Did the wicks move on both of them, or just one ?

2 out of 3 moved.

You probably glued the wick off center of the container. As the wick gets to the bottom there isnt't enough wax to maintain the wick in the center of the jar. The wick is in the wax at an angle instead of straight up and down. You have to make sure that the wick is tight in the holder and that you centered the jar. If the whole wicking device moved (came unglued) you need to use anther method.

Hot glue isn't a perfectly reliable method, though it's not bad. Make sure you're using the high temperature glue sticks. They don't melt as easily.

If the following photo illustrates the issue you are asking about, it's why I use Permatex High-Temp RTV Silicone Gasket Maker (available from auto parts stores everywhere) to glue the wicktabs.

Even the high-temp hot glue I used in the candle above will not hold up to high temps at the bottom of a candle container without softening and allowing the liquid wax to seep underneath (which defeats the self-extinguishing design of the wick tab) or it softens enough to let go and wander. Either way, this creates a safety issue for which I have zero tolerance.

An easy way to gauge this is to research the melt temp of the adhesive material you are using, and match that up with the temperature of the wax at the end of a burn. I have verified temps well over 450°F in powerburned (torture tested) container candles.

The Permatex RTV is rated up to 650°F (343°C).

Edited November 6, 2009 by Stella1952

Stella thanks so much for the information. Thats exactly what happened to mine! I was so nervous about people trying to light this again and causing a fire or something. So the key here is to find a better glue. Im assuming its more expensive to use this Permatex glue correct? Thanks so much I was really stressing this on top of me being sick.

I think 450 F is probably an erroneous measurement, unless your candles have been catching fire.

I think 450 F is probably an erroneous measurement, unless your candles have been catching fire.

I thought that's what candles do.

Seriously, though, even if those temps are a bit off, I think I can vouch for the rest of that. I've used silicone gasket makers and sealers for years to patch all kinds of things together. Just never thought of using it on candles.

The only thing I've found that it won't stick to is one particular type of plastic. I think it's a polycarbonate. It's the plastic they make radiators out of.

I can't vouch for it sticking to glass, though. That's about the only thing I haven't tried the stuff on.

Heh, not the whole melt pool. 450 is somewhere around the flash point of the mixture.

I totally agree about the silicone. It's the best stuff to guarantee your wick won't move. I like the GE stuff. Still, some people use hot glue and that's fine. We don't have to make them feel inadequate. Short of silicone rated for nuclear war, you can use the higher-MP glue and don't be too stingy applying it. That stuff has such a high viscosity that the wick really won't move even around the melt point of the glue until the stuff starts to mix with the candle wax, so I think that using a little extra helps.

For testers I use either 3M mounting foam (exactly the same as stick-ums but cheaper and more reliable) or hot glue and they both work well. They're removable and don't require hours of curing time.

Im assuming its more expensive to use this Permatex glue correct?

This stuff sell for between $2.50 up to around $15 per tube, depending on which type and what size.

The $15 stuff is about the size of a traditional toothpaste tube and would probably survive the nuclear attack that topofmurrayhill spoke of.

You'd need about half as much as the amount of toothpaste you normally use. Maybe a bit less. With the cheaper silicone, you can get down to around $5 for that size tube. I'm guessing that the cost per candle is gonna be around 5 cents. Maybe less. You can get it at any auto parts store or at Wally world.

There are about 10 different types. Some of them may not want to stick to glass. You might need to experiment with that part. Never had it fail on anything else though, except the radiator. Even on that it held for a short time. It didn't melt, just didn't adhere to that type of plastic. Found out that nothing else did either, though.

BTW alcohol is the only thing I've found that will get it off your hands. Even with that it takes a little work, so FOs and such shouldn't affect it.

I think 450 F is probably an erroneous measurement, unless your candles have been catching fire.

I measured that in a thread where Carole (Bugtussle) was discussing one of her tins catching fire and I did a test to deliberately accomplish that (but failed). It's most certainly an "outside the norm" temp, but it certainly can happen. I don't think it's unreasonable to engineer the candle to withstand a high interior temp even if under normal burning conditions it shouldn't achieve them, although I don't approach nuclear war rating...

There are about 10 different types.

The blue (rated to 500°F) is a good choice - found it for $2.99 (3 oz. tube) here; the red (rated to 650°F) 3 oz. tube was $4.09. Acetone (nail polish remover) does a good job on removing it from skin. Because it sticks so well, it is a buttpain to remove. I use a single-edged razor blade. It is not as convenient to use - I can certainly wick faster with the sticky tabs - but the Permatex simply works better. I get the smaller tube because I don't want it to harden between my wick-a-thons. ANY adhesive that will stick to glass & metal will work, but it has to hold up to high temps and not soften or melt.

For testing, I use hot glue or adhesive dots, too. I only use the Permatex RTV on candles for sale.

Acetone (nail polish remover) does a good job on removing it from skin. Because it sticks so well, it is a buttpain to remove.

I guess I'll stick with the alcohol. I was already getting odd looks from the Walgreens cashiers, when I was going in and buying 10 pair of knee high stockings every week, that I used to polish scratches/seams out of candles.

I'm thinking that adding polish remover to the shopping list would add to the legend.

Since I wear a Van Dyke style beard, they already think I'm sinister when I walk in the door, anyway.

I was already getting odd looks from the Walgreens cashiers, when I was going in and buying 10 pair of knee high stockings every week, that I used to polish scratches/seams out of candles.

Like the time I hadda run to the minute market at 9pm 'cause the boy needed some vaseline for his sax reed and the old man needed bourbon. The cashier broke up when I set those two items on the counter and told me to have a FUN evening!! :embarasse

You should have put that one into the Wal-Mart thread. LOL

I use rubber cement if I'm gluing the tabs. No start-up time like hot-glue, and very fast cure time. So far no problems but I'm not certain it wouldn't let go. The container certainly should not be getting over 200F (175 is the recommended limit). Suppose the wick tab could get hotter than that.

My usual problem is the wick pulling off-center in the middle, but staying centered at the top and bottom.

The container certainly should not be getting over 200F (175 is the recommended limit). Suppose the wick tab could get hotter than that.

SHOULD is a mighty unreliable word... Product safety means that we don't always rely on what "should" happen (especially when selling to humans)... We have to do a little thinking about what "could" happen so we can defend ourselves in a lawsuit if something untoward "does" happen... The INSIDE container temp can be quite different from the surface temperature of the OUTSIDE...

BTW, is rubber cement still as flammable after it dries? I know it's REAL flammable when it's liquid... It also doesn't have much "holding" power, so how can you keep your wicks taut?

My usual problem is the wick pulling off-center in the middle, but staying centered at the top and bottom.

I like the bowtie wick holders that Lone Star and other suppliers sell - they hold the wick taut so that the cooling wax doesn't pull it off center in the middle. Edited November 11, 2009 by Stella1952

BTW, is rubber cement still as flammable after it dries? I know it's REAL flammable when it's liquid...

I didn't say anything but was wondering much the same thing. The solvent is both flammable and toxic. And when you're gluing metal to glass, how do you really know it's dried completely - or that it ever will?

I dunno, I guess it could be OK, but my instinct says to "stick with" the adhesives that are customarily used for this purpose. It's the first I've heard about using rubber cement.

I had the same thing happen to me with one of my powerburned test candles, an 8 oz in a mason jar, and I used high temp hot glue (plenty of it) to adhere to jar. This candle had been burning for 16 hours straight when I noticed the wandering, about 1/4" from the side of the jar (yikes) so it obviously got hot enough to dislodge the wick. so now I am looking for another solution as well.

Gluedots never worked for me... they were a complete nightmare to deal with... wick would just pop right off the bottom of the jar the second I poured my wax, what a waste!

I'm going to do some testing with that silicone... it makes me really nervous to think even the high temp hot glue couldnt hold the wick in place during a powerburn.

Has anyone ever tried E6000? I make button rings on etsy and thats what I use to secure buttons of all kind (plastic, glass) to metal bases... for metal to metal I will only use JB Weld. I just dont know the heat rating for E6000. JB can stand up to just about anything as its used on engine blocks and so on... but E6000 I just have no idea. Testing would be needed.

Another thing I might try... Loctite 349 Impruv<--- it needs UV (sun) to cure... my husbands an electronics engineer and he says they use it in some fab's. It adheres in minutes, but he has no idea about heat so I would need to test that.

All I really found in regards to this material was this article below. Depending on the heat resiliance, it could be a solution.

Glass Sculpture Designer Achieves Strong Bonds With Loctite® UV Adhesive and Durabond® Epoxy

Loctite® Impruv® 349™ and Durabond® E-30CL™ Epoxy provide the solution for difficult-to-bond glass on this custom CD and Video Rack.

Challenge:

Trio Design Glass creates custom glass sculptures and dinnerware. Bonding glass-to-glass and glass-to-steel has always been difficult unless all areas to be bonded are very flat. In the case of a custom CD and video rack, bonding seemed nearly impossible with all of the angles involved.

Solution:

Loctite® Impruv® 349™, an optically-clear UV adhesive that forms a tough, clear bond even in large gaps, was used on 100% flat components. For larger components that could not be easily ground 100% flat due to equipment limitations, Loctite Durabond® E-30CL™ Epoxy was used.

Buy them at Wal-Mart in the glue section. Cut each square into 8 pieces and stick to the bottom of your wicks. They don't let go until the end of the candle and are easy to remove from the jar if re-using. They are cheap and always available and only take a couple of minutes to cut into small squares. I usually cut one square in half and then cut four from each half of the square and peel off the paper and stick my wicks. I have never had a wick let go in nearly 4 years of candlemaking. HTH.

Chuck

--------------

ROLL TIDE ROLL!

I can vouch for this product. It's the same thing as stick-ums but 100% reliable. The version I find convenient comes in a skinny roll like cellophane tape. All you have to do it snip a square piece from the end and it's the perfect size for a wick tab.

Steve, thanks for posting that product photo - now I know what to look for! I want to test those puppies because if they do hold in both soy & palm wax without leaking or softening, it's one helluva lot easier to slap on a sticky than it is a dollop of goo.

I will give it a try. I actually realized that I was using a low temp glue so I found a glue company thats sells strong high temp. glue sticks and a great glue gun that gets the job done after plugging in after 3 minutes but if it fails I will be giving these a try. I would like to thank all of you for all these posts oh yeah and I finally learned the hard way test, test, test!!! Thanks

I have burned a lot of Yankees, and have had a wandering wick more than once. So it happens to the "big guys" too.:smiley2: