Who put the soap in the C3?

I read in a previous post that someone else came across this in the last two boxes....soapy looking bubbles during the melt process...the color of the melted wax is also darker than it used to me....and sink holes and air bubbles are worse than ever. The slower I pour the more little teeny bubbles show up in the jars and than they just sit there stuck..very frustrating. I think this has been the first time I'm thinking it might be worth switching to another wax...I hate spending so much time fixing the darn candle....are there any good alternatives to C3....

Thanks

I had posted previously about the bubbles - I have solved it for the most part by heating the wax to about 185. My bigger problem is that I seem to get more frosting with it. It helps to turn up the temperature of the room where I pour. I wish they hadn't changed the formula!

Good luck!

There was a batch I got last year of C-3 that was dirty and bubbled when melting...

It looked clean until I melted it down..

Then at 125 it would start bubbling like someone threw water in it!!!

When it cooled down, there were strings of greasy looking dirt.

It did not melt clear, but a dirty brown color???

It was horrible!! That was the first and thank god, last bad batch I ever got of the C-3..

Call Nature Wax and ask them directly.. They maybe helpful...

That's a great idea.....just put in a call to customer service waiting for a call back from Technical Support....will update if any good info comes from it...

Thanks

An Elevance Technical Support Rep requested the lot number on my C3 boxex and is following up with the manufacturer. She said she'll get back to me next week.

Good to hear that they just did not dismiss it..

Keep us posted!!!

I am definitely interested in hearing their response!

Update:

Elevance is NOT taking this lightly...they have requested I send a 1lb sample of the wax for them to analyze. These are the first boxes that I've purchased with "Elevance" marked on the outside. At this point, I'm kind of in a holding pattern because I'm not sure I should make any more candles with this C3. I also noticed when testing a couple of the candles from this batch that there is quite a bit of foam in the Melt Pool. The throw seems fine but there also seems to be less glass adhesion.

Has anyone else seen this problem with boxes labelled Elevance??? I have tried heating to a higher temp but it hasn't helped. I did notice pouring hotter, approx 160F, seemed to help with the sink holes...

Since I still have 2 "bad" cases of C3, I, too, e-mailed Elevance and Nature Wax. Never heard from Nature Wax, but Elevance has called me twice. I gave her the lot number from my wax and I was also asked to send 1 lb samples. The only thing that is a little troublesome to me is that you had contacted Elevance before I did. The person I spoke with sounded as if they had never heard of such a thing - no one else had complained about this.

I'll send my wax samples to Cargill, but I'm not sure what to think,now.

I do know that my "good" cases of C3 are from a supplier listed on Elevance's website. My "bad" cases of C3 are from a supplier not listed on Elevance's website. Probably means nothing, but still a little interesting.

It does seem to be a slow process but there's a few people involved in the email threads I've received. I'll take that as a good thing. BTW, I purchased my problem cases from the Jar Store and they are listed as one of Elevance's Distributors so I don't think that means much. Unfortunately, if I purchase somewhere else besides the Jar Store, I will get hit with shipping and I'm not sure I won't run into the same problem. Elevance has not said I should not use the wax but who knows at this point. Maybe we should think about putting Lot Numbers on our candles going forward in case we have a recall??

Is this different than the tiny champagne-sized bubbles I have always gotten when burning pure C-3?

Yes, I believe it's different. I've gone through quite a few 50# boxes of C3 over the past couple of years and these were the first two boxes that exhibited this behavior. I use a Turkey Fryer to melt and once it's melted there a soapy foam on the surface of the melted wax. The color is also different...it's more like cider colored than the vegetable oil color it usually is. It doesn't go away if you increase the melting temp and also pouring into the pouring pots seems to increase it if splashes too much. I made some candles yesterday and skimmed as much of the foam off the top as possible before pouring. The foam hardened just like wax when it cooled.

I sent a sample from each box to Cargill along with the lot numbers and hope to hear back soon on their findings. I was told by Elevance Technical Support that it wasn't necessary to stop using the wax, which made me feel better.

I also noted glass adhesion is not as good with this formula. I've always washed my jars in ammonia and have had good luck with eliminating the wet spots...however they seem to be prevalent in about 1 out of 10 jars I pour with this wax. I have also been pouring hotter, 150-160, which has helped eliminate most air bubbles that are much more prevalent in this wax.

Sorry for the long thread but I think it's important that chandlers using C3 get this info.

blt212 and bsalmon26

Could you please post the lot numbers..

Are you both using wax from the same lot??

I want to make sure I do not get this lot when I order with my supplier.

My 50# Boxes have the following lot numbers:

L8K14 00:20

L8K14 00:19

It would be interested to see if bsalmon's are the same....

Mine have the same beginning but different numbers at the end:

L8K14 00:39

L8K14 00:42

Is the lot just the beginning "L8K14" part or the whole string? I think I will be calling the company as well.

I'm guessing the number after the colon reflects the sequence number in the lot as they're mfg'd. I have no idea how many are made in each lot. Are you experiencing the same type of problems with yours?

Yeah, I am having the same type of issues. I get the soapy bubbles and definitely have a bigger problem with frosting than I have ever had.

Sorry to hear you're dealing with this as well...it certainly adds a whole new dimension to working with soy. Elevance did receive my samples and so far they have ruled out moisture and are running more tests on additive levels. I'm told they may have those test results completed tomorrow....stay tuned..

Same Lot number as yours! INTERESTING!

I think I spoke with Michelle from Elevance. Gave her lot number "L8K14". YES, whoever received this lot number should definitely call. She was interested, but gave me the impression this was "new" to her.

I haven't had glass adhesion trouble, though. I need to order more and not sure where to order from? I don't want 20 cases of L8K14! Does anyone have any "good" lot numbers?

Aunt B

I received this message from Michelle at Elevance.

I heard a more from the plant on the C3 browning issue. They said, “lecithin will burn and change the color of the oil if overheated. I heated a sample of the flakes to 200 deg F and there was some darkening. By 300 deg F, it was much darker than initially. Products with more lecithin will actually turn black if heated too much.”

Can you confirm what temperature you were melting the wax at? And, have you tried heating it at lower/different temperatures; if so, do you recall what temps? This info will help further our investigation.

Also, regarding the bubbles: the plant believes it is due to the agitator in their tank. When the oil level gets low in the tank, the agitator keeps turning at the surface of the oil. This is causing more aeration of the oil than normal and when melted again, the air escapes thus causing bubbles to form.

The tank is currently set up to shut the agitator off when the oil level gets below the blade but they have increased the level so it won't churn the surface and created excess air. This should prevent the problem for occurring in the future.

Thanks for your help and input throughout our investigation. We appreciate your patience as we continue to remedy this issue!

Thanks for the update....I received similar info and replied to her regarding my melting temp since I never heat over 200F even though I set the Turkey Fryer to 175F it does tend to go beyond that. I also always confirm the temp with a handheld thermometer. As I told her the color isn't as big of an issue as the soapiness or air bubbles. I also asked her for technical advice on the sink holes and if C3 is actually supposed to be a one pour wax, what is their advice for melting and cooling temps to eliminate these issues as much as possible. I think the sink holes are worse in this lot but they've never not been an issue for me no matter what combination of temps I try...

Thanks ladies for all the information you have posted here. It will be very helpful if any more of us get one of those bad cases.

I hope they offered to replace the case for both of you, because their reason for the bubbles is not acceptable IMO. QA should have caught that before it went out the door.

I'm waiting on that answer and an answer regarding a good Lot number.

My wax never heats beyond 180 (use a hand held thermometer in addition to automatic one). I agree the color isn't the real issue.

I have found something that helps. After pouring wax into pour pots, add color (if used) and fragrance, I do my normal stir, stir, stir, etc. Once the wax settles a bit, I use the low, low setting on my heat gun and the bubbles will dissolve. Stirring very slowly while apply heat helps also. Use very very low heat. No bubbles after you pour into your jars.

Aunt B