New to the Forum - Problems with Wicks

[JAVAEBOY]

Hello everyone. I have been looking around and this seems like a great place to get some very useful information.

A little about myself. I have been making Gel Candles for about 4 or 5 years now. Started out just as a few Christmas presents, did a few very minor craft shows at work, and now trying to venture out into the larger festivals and such. My family is spurring me on.

Now my questions. Sorry if this get a little long....

I have been having trouble finding good wicks to use in my larger gel candles. I had only been using the wicks and gel available at the large craft stores, (Michaels, AC Moore, etc.) they are from Yaley. I had been staying away form the zinc core versions because of the discoloration in the clearer gels I have been using. My problem with the non-zinc cored, though is that they fall in the melt pool if the candles burn too long.

Since I am trying to make a go of it on the outside, I wanted to try to find a large wick that would work in a martini glass first, and give me a larger melt pool than I was experiencing with my medium size wicks from Yaley. I talked to the candle supply distributor that I have bought some of my incidentals from and asked their advice. They recommended and sent me samples of HTP-1212 and Cotton Core 62-52-18 wicks.

Here are my problems.

1. Although I am getting a somewhat larger melt pool with them, I still would need to put multiple wicks (4) to get a total melt pool on the top of the candle, and that I have read here is dangerous due to the high temperature that the gel may reach. Also, the wicks need to be put in at an angle to get the desired effect.

2. The HTP-1212 wicks have a noticeable trail of smoke leading from the wick itself while it is burning.

3. The 62-52-18 Cotton Core wicks seem to be dropping alot of debris in the gel.

4. Both wicks smoke intensely when extinguished.

I never had the smoking or dropping problem with my Yaley wicks. They are not pre-waxed. Would it make sense to coat them in gel, before putting them in the candles, to give them more structure? Is there a reason for the smoke trail, and the excessive smoke after extinguishing? The HTP-1212 candles smoke while burning actually set off a smoke alarm 30 feet away in another room.

I have to find a solution. I will be making Martini Glasses, Rocks glasses, and tall Pilsner Beer glasses. I have been using the Yaley medium wicks in the tall beer glasses, and have good luck so far.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Hopefully, I'll be able to help some people out here also...

Thank you,

Steve G

Upstate NY

[Vicky_CO]

Lets see if I can help a bit.

First is you might think about zinc again I have never had discoloring problems with zinc in gel but I have always use Penreco gel and quality wicks.

There is also a larger wick that the HTP 1212 it is the HTP 1312. but I do not think that is your problem I think you have gone to large try going down one size to the HTP 126 or even move to the LX wicks. LX wicks work very well in gel wax. Another good thing is to have you wicks coated in high melt point wax that will help a lot for stability problem.

Any cored wick you use is going to have mushroom problems.

You can double and triple wick gel with out it being a fired hazard as long as you test throughly. You also have to follow some basic guidelines like being the flame being far enough away from the side of the container.

HTP are famous for smoking a lot when they are put out. You smoking while burning is could be cause by a couple of things too large a wick or to much FO.

[JAVAEBOY]

too large a wick or to much FO.

Vicky,

Thank you for your input. Just a few questions.

First I'm a little naive when it comes to your term "FO". Is that "Flame Output"?

Another question, since I am fairly new to quality wicks, is when you say "too large of a wick", I get a little confused, because, my thinking was to have a wick or wicks that will give you a fairly large melt pool? If I am trying to burn a martini shaped candle with a 4 1/2" diameter surface, does it NOT make sense to try to use wicks large enough to create melt pools large enough to cover that area? I am probably wrong, so I concede to your knowledge.

When I see here reference to wicks numbers that are followed by a "Z" , like 51-32-18Z does that refer to zinc cored, instead of a cotton or paper? I also see reference to things like LX-24 NST2. I am unfamiliar with the NST2 treatment. Is this something I should look for, avoid or not worry about for gel candles

Second last question. When you talk about "Another good thing is to have your wicks coated in high melt point wax that will help a lot for stability problem." Is this something that the wicks (ie HTP, LX, etc) come with, or is it a matter of an article I read somewhere, of letting any of these wicks soak in a small batch of 210 degree gel, which would then take off the wax that is already on them, and replace it with the gel itself. I have read that by doing this, I also rid the problem of clouding the gel.

Last Question, at least for now... I am planning on getting my new gel directly from a candle supply house. I am assuming it is Penreco Gel. Do you think that may make a difference in my smoking problems?

Thank you again...

SteveG

[Vicky_CO]

Boy you making me think LOL that is a good thing.

FO = Fragrance oil

Yes the "Z" means zinc The NST2 is not a concern or worry that is just a treatment they do to the wick to make it burn better.

The problem with that martini glass has always been that the top it so much larger than the bottom. I do not know if you have noticed but the wick will pull gel to itself so what seems like to small of a wick at first may not be in the end.

Bare wick for gel is best because of the clouding but if you are having stability issues then you need to have the wicks coated in something that will cause it to stand up. And unless you mess with it to much you should only have problem with clouding around the wick itself.

You have been using craft store gel which first is LP or low density type Here I do basically a quick walk through of gel.

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2957

If what you are getting ready to buy is Penreco they tell you flat out that it is I personally would never use any other gel wax. I do not trust the stuff people make in house it has a tendency not to be consistent. Yes poor quality gel can cause smoking but last I had heard the craft store like Micheal and hobby lobby had to use Penreco LP gel wax mainly because of Penreco patient but that could have changed in the last few years.

I have not used craft store stuff in so long I do not keep up with what they put out not only that but I found craft store usually have the worse grade of just about everything. I go look through craft stores but I rarely buy anything in them.

[JAVAEBOY]

Vicky, Thanks again for your quick response. I am somewhat familiar with the 3 densities of Penreco Gel. Since I really don't do candles using floating embeds and most of my customers prefer unscented candles. The majority of my candles use a tea light in a votive glass within an outer glass with my decorations in gel, hard to explain, but they have been going over very well. I think I am going to be using the Penreco LP gel for those surrounds as well as the candles I really expect to be burned traditionally. The candles that I will be using wicks for are going to be about 3" or less in diameter. Rocks and beer glasses in particular, which of the LX and Zinc cored wicks would you recommend I try first? I really don't like the smoking of the HTP wicks, so I think I am going to stay away from them. I know it sounds like a cop-out but, I don't have too much free time to experiment with too many wicks before I have to start getting candles ready for the show(s). Thank you again... SteveG

[Vicky_CO]

Your are talking about the double glass method most of us use that for any of our decorative gels because no one wants to burn them other wise.

Well I am not going to be much help in wicking because I use MP and HP so any recommendation I would give would be for the denser stuff.

Most of the supplier now offer sample packs which is a good thing they will give you the full range of any type of wick for just a few dollars and most give you 5 of each size so you can narrow down what you need really quickly and relatively inexpensively.

[JAVAEBOY]

Vicky, One last quick question. (Sure she tells herself). Assuming I was going to go with MP gel, since the MP gel isn't really that much more expensive, which wick would you recommend then for these 3" diameter candles?

I will still order a set of Samples anyways. That is what they sent me for the HTP-1212 and 62-52-18 Cotton Core wicks when I asked for their recommendation. SteveG

[Vicky_CO]

In zinc I would start here 60-44-18z but jump up to here 62-52-18z if needed.

LX I would start at at least LX 24 in MP gel a tealight takes LX 10 to LX 12.

I am only giving you starting point as I do not make anything that is exactly 3", you need to test for yourself to see what you like.

[JAVAEBOY]

Vicky,

I just placed my order for MP gel and dyes and they are sending me a sets of sample wicks in both LX and Zinc Core.

Thanks for all your help. Hopefully, I'll be testing all this stuff this weekend.

Hopefully, someday, I'll be help others as much as you have helped me.

SteveG