Curing before selling?

[Holly]

Hi,

I have read where some soy waxes do not take as long to cure as others. I have not tested many soy waxes so I can't really compare. I have only tested CB-3 Calsoy and Ecosoya 120 (I had on hand from last year as an additive for other paraffin waxes).

I was wondering if most of you make several soy candles to stock up so they are well cured before people purchase them or if you pour on demand and wait a few days to send. Also, maybe you pour them on demand and can send them right away knowing the scent throw will be up to par.

I never did feel that curing time helped with paraffin and most candlers believe that it is mainly candlenose and not the lack of curing time. Is it really different with soy? Does something really happen chemistry wise with the soy candle? I am not sure yet if I notice a lot of difference with the CB-3 Calsoy with a longer cure time. I usually test them after 48 hours and sometimes only 24 hours and they to me seem to have a really good throw, but maybe they could be better with a longer cure time. When testing so much it is really hard to judge the scent throw at times.

TIA

~Holly

[Meridith]

Yes Holly, soy does benefit from a longer cure. It also tends to benefit from a longer cure time than paraffin candles need. And some FOs just need a longer cure time than others and that's in soy as well as paraffin, but more so IMO with soy. I try to stay a little ahead of my stock because they do smell better the older they get. Sometimes they don't look as good because they might have frosted - but that doesn't bother me. I'm sure if you go to the old CandleTech board you will find a wealth of info on so many aspects and issues with soy.

[Holly]

Thanks Meridith for your input/help.

[kitkat]

You Know I have been saying this ...which seems forever......... If you buy a quailitly fo ...You can get your fo to cure withen 3-5 days............ yes the longer the stronger... but If i cannot smell withen the 3-5 does i reject that particular fo from that Co......I only buy fragrances that seem to cure withen the 3-5 days because my Time is money.....................

who wants an Fo that you have to wait 2 weeks for...............

not I......

mY 2 CENTS WORTH........ AND THEN SOME

HEY WHERE THE HECK IS THE WINK SMILEY???????

CATHY

[Elizabeth]

I personally do not subscribe to the whole "curing" theory. I think the only thing that occurs during that time one is waiting for a candle to "cure" is that you've given your nose a break from the scents and it smells "stronger" to you. Once you put that cap on the container, there isn't any magical chemical "reactions" that occur lending to a more fragrant candle. I've burned candles as soon as they've hardened and they've been wonderfully fragrant and no less so than ones I've had sitting on the shelf for 6 months!!

This of course is just my opinion and if anyone has some real, tangible proof to show otherwise, I'd be very interested in seeing it.And by tangible, I mean some proven data that supports it. Anything else is just a matter of opinion.

[kitkat]

not to be a smarty... but one week you do not smell but the next week you do Your right about how long something can cure though...... try pickles, or Beer, (ok so I am not a wine drinker)..... they can only get so great........and only get so ..well quaility..

and your right about the candle nose... but next week when i cannot smell the one that has been cured for 2 weeks.. after not playing with any fragrance at all............. well end of story...

loved your post.....gives us all something to think about.......

Cathy

[Holly]

Thanks Cathy and Elizabeth,

I enjoyed your posts. I too came to a pretty solid conclusion with paraffin that it is candlenose and not cure time. But of course, that is just my opinion. Now for the soy, I am not as familiar with soy as paraffin at this point and have read so much on the boards where people really do believe that cure time helps and it is not candlenose. I have also noticed that a lot of the people that don't see that cure time is an issue with paraffin are sure of it with the soy. So, I am thinking maybe there is something to this cure thing with the soy and maybe my candles will smell better over time. So far, I am not noticing anything drastically different, but then again I can't depend on my nose lately because I have been making several candles in the last few weeks.

[Elizabeth]

not to be a smarty... but one week you do not smell but the next week you do Your right about how long something can cure though...... try pickles, or Beer, (ok so I am not a wine drinker)..... they can only get so great........and only get so ..well quaility..

and your right about the candle nose... but next week when i cannot smell the one that has been cured for 2 weeks.. after not playing with any fragrance at all............. well end of story...

loved your post.....gives us all something to think about.......

Cathy

Not really sure what you're driving at but if you are saying that after 2 weeks you still can not smell your candles, then I'd say you should look at the fo's you are using and possibly the amounts. That is of course if you are using less than is recommended for your particular wax.

[Meridith]

It is correct that with quality FOs you will get a better throw. Quality in anything counts. And some FOs, no matter the quality, just aren't going to throw in your wax. But, I have customers that have bought from me before a few days after I poured, and they tell me that they can tell a difference between a freshly poured candle and one that has cured longer. The consensus is they prefer the older ones. I test my candles within a few days of pouring and if they don't smell strong, I will close them back up and wait a little longer to see if they get stronger. I won't usually deal with an FO that needs a long cure time. Now there is something to be said for candle nose in that it does exist because my nose can't smell alot of stuff anymore, but when a customer has never burned a particular scent of mine and tells me that initially they didn't smell it, but smelled it after letting it sit for a few more days, I've got to believe that there is something to be said for curing. So I will cure as much as I can depending on the FO cuz like I said, some FOs need more cure time than others.

[Chad]

Curing is a myth. But if you really just like taking up valuable shelf space and holding back your production time, then I say let em cure.

Edit to add: The one benefit you get from letting candles sit for a few weeks with the lids on is the fo builds up under the lid a little more which would make the cold throw stronger.

[shutterbugg]

ok i have to jump in here. I must say i agree about the curing to a degree. My j-50 i dont cure at all. BUT my astorlite Q i cure. The longer i let it cure the better it throws. I will argue that point till im blue in the face

[Chad]

BUT my astorlite Q i cure. The longer i let it cure the better it throws.

By throw I assume you mean hot throw. How did you go about ruling out "candle nose"? To do this you would need someone else to make the candles in a different location besides your house. Make one candle then let it sit for 3 weeks and then make another and bring them both over to you without you knowing which one was what. And then you would have to light both of them at the same time in different rooms of equal size at separate locations in your house. Even then the one you smelled first would seem stronger.

[Meridith]

I'm assuming J50 is a paraffin wax. I've never really worked with paraffin so I can only speak to soy and what my experience is with it. My experience shows that soy does benefit from a cure time - how long depends on the FO.

Well, I stick with the curing since my customers like the cured ones better. Happy customers means repeat sales. Therefore, it works for me!!!!

[shutterbugg]

How did you go about ruling out "candle nose"?

By sticking my nose in coffee! ohhh and just so you know, i did have someone else test for me. My neighbor and MIL. I gave them each two candles. ONe i just made and one i had for 3 weeks. Both people said the one with the purple dot on the bottom had a awesome throw where as the one with the red dot on it did not. The purple one was yep you guessed it, the one that i cured for 3 weeks

Editing cause i cant spell

[Chad]

By sticking my nose in coffee! ohhh and just so you know, i did have someone else test for me. My neighbor and MIL. I gave them each two candles. ONe i just made and one i had for 3 weeks. Both people said the one with the purple dot on the bottom had a awesome throw where as the one with the red dot on it did not. The purple one was yep you guessed it, the one that i cured for 3 weeks

Lemme guess, they burned the purple one first.

And of course the "cured" one would have a better cold throw as I mentioned in my previous post.

[Holly]

Curing is a myth. But if you really just like taking up valuable shelf space and holding back your production time, then I say let em cure.

This is one reason why I posted this thread....I would rather not take up valuable shelf space. But, if I had to let them cure, I would sacrifice time in advance and shelf space.

Edit to add: The one benefit you get from letting candles sit for a few weeks with the lids on is the fo builds up under the lid a little more which would make the cold throw stronger.

I agree with this 100%.

Thanks for your input Chad.

[Holly]

I'm assuming J50 is a paraffin wax. I've never really worked with paraffin so I can only speak to soy and what my experience is with it. My experience shows that soy does benefit from a cure time - how long depends on the FO.

Well, I stick with the curing since my customers like the cured ones better. Happy customers means repeat sales. Therefore, it works for me!!!!

Good point Meridith. If I had customers that said the same, I would do the same. I have only had one friend so far try my soy candles and she just received them and none of them are older than 4 days old -- had to give them to her when I did. I will have to put the cure thing to the test with my friends. It is too hard for me to tell for sure since my nose is constantly smelling oils.

[mystical_angel1219]

ok i have to jump in here. I must say i agree about the curing to a degree. My j-50 i dont cure at all. BUT my astorlite Q i cure. The longer i let it cure the better it throws. I will argue that point till im blue in the face

You need to cure Palm~ for a LONG time to get ANY scent throw. I don't care what anyone says. I have Palm pillars sitting here that literally have been wrapped up for 6 months to get a good, strong scent throw. I don't sell Palm pillars expect for special requests from some of my favorite customers.

On soy curing~ This is a personal preference. My customers swear the candles get stronger the longer they sit. Some of my fragrances I won't sell for a week or so. It depends on the oil. Both supplier and scent. The stronger ones like Amish Harvest can be sold right away. Lovespell, Ocean and a few others seem to benefit from curing for me.

[Vicky_CO]

Okay curing I know all the arguements. But here are some intersting things to think about.

Paraffin is a stable substance so anything you add to it is going to remain the same with the exception of fading colors.

Soy on the other hand is not you can do to things to make it more stable but you can never totally stablize it. If it was stable it would not do all the weird thing it does like grow(had more than one candle do that) If it soy candle get frozen it does weird things to the burn(sometimes nothing goes wrong others) Yes I know that by have 2 candle from the same batch one get frozen and one not and the frozen one burn weird and the one that remain at room temp. burn perfectly fine.

So with knowing that soy does change does it make sense that it is not going to effect the scent throw?

Now here is my experience soy needs to cure and the longer you cure the better the scent throw. I burned a candle that for some reason this candle would not sell no one wanted it sold all the rest of the batch but that one. So I restocked and right after I made more (so yes I had candle nose from that scent) I burned it. It drove me out of my house my hubby was screaming for me to please put it out it was to strong. I agreed with him. Okay I will admit that candle was over a year old.

[Meridith]

On soy curing~ This is a personal preference. My customers swear the candles get stronger the longer they sit. Some of my fragrances I won't sell for a week or so. It depends on the oil. Both supplier and scent. The stronger ones like Amish Harvest can be sold right away. Lovespell, Ocean and a few others seem to benefit from curing for me.

That's exactly how I am. My cure time depends on my FO and supplier. I do suffer from candle nose, which is sometimes a good thing since I now don't smell alot of those unpleasant smells that families seem to emit. But if a customer thinks some of my candles smell better with a cure, than who am I to say they are wrong? I believe it is more reasonable to believe that the customer is going to smell that candle a whole heck of alot better than I will. I'm just around the stuff way too much. People always comment on how good my house always smells. I never smell it.

Bottom line, I believe in a cure time for some FOs and stand by it. I listen to my customers and the way I do it works for me. I say, believe what you want and do what works best for you.

[kitkat]

What i am driving at is.. if I cannot not smell a candle that is suppose to be cured in 2 weeks ... then I will not use that fo.... I liked mine cured withen 3-5 days...once they cure they are cured.........

[Kaybee23]

I agree with the curing time as well. Like Mystical, when I was making palm candles, I never got them to throw well right off. They always took several days/weeks to throw well. My soy also does the same with lighter scents. I have a hard time getting light scents to throw in my soy, but a longer cure time seems to help them. The heavier ones seem to throw well right away. Just my 2 cents worth.

[pamperme]

My soy also does the same with lighter scents. I have a hard time getting light scents to throw in my soy, but a longer cure time seems to help them. The heavier ones seem to throw well right away.

I totally agree with that statement..

I have done the same thing..light scents I cure..strong kick butt ones like red current I do not and they throw fine..actually if they did cure they would probably be so strong it would be sickening..this was with plain 415 soy..I use a 50/50 blend now..and I do not seem to have to cure any.

[Elizabeth]

Vicky, i'd be willing to bet that the reason the soy candles that were frozen burned so crappy was because of condensation occuring from being frozen. The air trapped inside the closed container contains some degree of moisture and freezing it will cause it to form tiny ice crystals . When thawed, that water will lay on the top of the candle, possibly even being inside the candle if there was any trapped air bubbles.

I've made soy candles and i've not experienced this "growing" thing but to my way of thinking the bottom line is, and this is in regard to hot throw, fragrance will be released from a candle when it is warmed whether or not it has cured or not and having it sit longer doesn't really do anything to change the structure of the fragrance oil or its "binding" to wax. Now remember, this is just my opinion based on my own experiences. I am still on the hunt though for some objective data to prove this whole cure thing one way or another.

[Fire and Ice]

I personlly agree with curing to get a stronger scent throw.

And I have testers who test my candles. I have four of them and they all agree that curing is an absolute must with my soy candles.

About a year ago I switched soy waxes and found that the new wax needed a longer cure time than my ols wax even though they were both produced by the same company. Cargils. The old wax was so much quicker at curing up that I purchased about dozen 50lb boxes from other candlers on the east coast. I began adding to the new wax and sure enough, it shaved at least one to two days off of the curing time.

I will, test my candles from time to time but 96% of the time, the testers do that work. As I've had the same testers for nearly five years now, they should know.

And I fully agree with what Mystical Angel too. Amish Harvest can go out the dor in two days where Lily of the Valley will take six days.