julie Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 These are made by Primal Elements. Was wondering if anyone makes something like them & where to begin?Also where do they find all those good scents that are gel safe? I do J223 candles (mostly bakery scents) & none of the fo's I have are listed as gel safe. I buy most of my fo's from BCS & WSP. Bums me out that I have all these great fo's & can't play with the gel!Happy New Year,Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luci Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 I get almost all of my gel safe fo's from www.aromahaven.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julie Posted December 31, 2006 Author Share Posted December 31, 2006 Thanks! Just hate the thought of having to buy new ones but I would love to try those candles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicky_CO Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Check the FO you have if they have a FP over 175 then do a polarity test on them you might be surprised how many you have that are gel safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doglover Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 I have made some similar....and they really are cool to look at. You can vary the colors with the seasons. I did red, white and blue for July 4th....they sold like crazy. I lightly scented the gel cubes...most of my fragrance was in the paraffin wax.Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonrose64 Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Now those are cute. 1 more thing for me to do. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle Man Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Primal Elements has patents on most if not all of their candle processes. It my not be wise to make chunk gel with a wax over pour.Primal Elements’ candle products are protected by one or more of the following United State Letters Patents – 5,879,694, 6,033,210, 6,068,472, 6,171,101, 6,171,102, 6,210,153B1, 6,214,295,B1, D424,719, D425,636, D436,866, and D439,684. Other U.S. and foreign patents pending.Just plug the patent # into here to find more info http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htmHere is the basic meaning of patent # 6,033,210 - The present invention generally relates to decorative candles and more particularly to a decorative candle having uniquely shaped, integral gel components suspended within the candle by a petrolatum and paraffin mixture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 BCN has a line of gel fo's that also work very well in paraffin and some in soy...Dream Weaver is one of my favs, and the blackberry jam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephD Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Candleman, wouldn't that apply to any gel embeds then? I don't quite understand how you would be able to patent something that a lot of people do, or maybe I'm not understanding the patent right? lolStephanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doglover Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Who wants to be the first to patent a paraffin wax candle???? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephD Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 lol It just floors me that some people will patent something that other people have been making for years. Earlier this summer I was doing craft stuff and some I made myself, no pattern, but other stuff I bought patterns for at wally world. Well, come to find out, if you use their patterns, you cannot sell what you make from them. Some of their craft patterns are things I saw years ago at craft shows. I guess maybe we should patent everything we make so we don't get screwed! lolStephanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle Man Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 lol It just floors me that some people will patent something that other people have been making for years. Earlier this summer I was doing craft stuff and some I made myself, no pattern, but other stuff I bought patterns for at wally world. Well, come to find out, if you use their patterns, you cannot sell what you make from them. Some of their craft patterns are things I saw years ago at craft shows. I guess maybe we should patent everything we make so we don't get screwed! lolStephanieThe problem with that and us small time guys is...We can not afford the filing fee for the patent.You have to be able to catch others infringing on your patent, this takes $money$You have to prosecute which cost $money$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julie Posted January 1, 2007 Author Share Posted January 1, 2007 Check the FO you have if they have a FP over 175 then do a polarity test on them you might be surprised how many you have that are gel safe.Vicky,Thanks for telling me that. I will definetly check them & keep fingers crossed that I have some usable ones!Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julie Posted January 1, 2007 Author Share Posted January 1, 2007 Primal Elements has patents on most if not all of their candle processes. It my not be wise to make chunk gel with a wax over pour.Primal Elements’ candle products are protected by one or more of the following United State Letters Patents – 5,879,694, 6,033,210, 6,068,472, 6,171,101, 6,171,102, 6,210,153B1, 6,214,295,B1, D424,719, D425,636, D436,866, and D439,684. Other U.S. and foreign patents pending.Just plug the patent # into here to find more info http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htmHere is the basic meaning of patent # 6,033,210 - The present invention generally relates to decorative candles and more particularly to a decorative candle having uniquely shaped, integral gel components suspended within the candle by a petrolatum and paraffin mixture.Just want to play...not sell but thanks for the warning.Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle Man Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Candleman, wouldn't that apply to any gel embeds then? I don't quite understand how you would be able to patent something that a lot of people do, or maybe I'm not understanding the patent right? lolStephanieI did not look at the date of the patents. If anybody can prove that this process has been done before the patent, and file a case against them & win, then the patent would become void. They may not worry about small time candle makers like us, I don't know.But...The owner of "Cool Water" is sending of lots of C&D letters even to us small candle makers. We need to re-name that scent and not just put type after it.Also Natures Garden candle supplies received C&D letters from both B&BW and VS. So they since have stopped carrying their scents or they re-named them, in a way, that is ok from B&BW and VS lawers. Also they could not mention in any way that this re-named scent is a dupe of said company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephD Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 I saw the letter NG got. I change all the trademarked names. My cool water is cool mist. Another thing I found, if you change the name and it is too close to the trademarked name, they can still come after you. Figures! Anyway, I know I have seen candles similar to that at craft shows. Problem is, there are a lot of candlemakers out there and not a lot of them on the internet so they probably have no idea about all these patents companies are trying to get. It just irritates me! lol Stephanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonrose64 Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 yeh well I don't get it. So we are suppose to be afraid of making candles because there might be a patent on them?So what happens when there is a patent on every type and shape of candle made with wax?Are we suppose to stop making them?I think it's stupid. As long as we change something in it what are they going to do?Everyone wants a patent and everyone wants to make a big stink about it. Ok, off to patent every little thing I made, but 1st I shall check patents so I don't waste my time trying to patent something that is already done.:rolleyes2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickie1st Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 yeh well I don't get it. So we are suppose to be afraid of making candles because there might be a patent on them?So what happens when there is a patent on every type and shape of candle made with wax?Are we suppose to stop making them?I think it's stupid. As long as we change something in it what are they going to do?Everyone wants a patent and everyone wants to make a big stink about it. Ok, off to patent every little thing I made, but 1st I shall check patents so I don't waste my time trying to patent something that is already done.:rolleyes2lol sis :highfive: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephD Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 I agree and the trademarking of names kills me. I think there are certain names they should not be able to trademark, like sugar cookie! Of course, I don't make enough on my real job to do anything about it or trademark every little name I have to come up with! lolStephanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaP Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I found this information on the US Patent office website.Novelty And Non-Obviousness, Conditions For Obtaining A PatentIn order for an invention to be patentable it must be new as defined in the patent law, which provides that an invention cannot be patented if: “(a) the invention was known or used by others in this country, or patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country, before the invention thereof by the applicant for patent,” or “( the invention was patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country or in public use or on sale in this country more than one year prior to the application for patent in the United States . . .”I would think the part about the item being known or used one year prior to the patent being applied for would cover the question.There is more info on the US Patent site...relating to this matter.Bill Jacksonville Fla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassy-girl Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Items are often "patented" without alot of research, It all comes from the wording in the patent application. So if no other publishings are found with "XXX", a patent is granted. Trademarking is different and on the use of the word. Trademark is only for the "MARK" itself.. that being the way the word is being used.. ie " Cool Water" as the way it is presented by the perfume manufacture as opposed to say a line of Clothing Called "Cool Water" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladysj Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I've been seeing alot about the re-naming thing the past few days. I've re-named my dupe fo's and put it like this on my description list. Not sure if I can do this or not so please let me know.Gracious(Amazing Grace Type) Will this work or should I leave off the type part of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsAllME Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Here is what the main patent states...BTW, it shows to be filed 06/99 A decorative candle comprising a container that defines an interior chamber. Disposed within the interior chamber is a candle core sized relative to the container such that a cavity is formed between the candle core and the container. At least one component is disposed within the cavity in abutting contact with the candle core and the container. The component is encapsulated by a mixture that has a melting point lower than the candle core and the component such that neither the candle core nor the component melt when the molten mixture is poured within the cavity. In the preferred embodiment of the present invention, the candle core is a paraffin wax candle core and the mixture is a paraffin/petrolatum mixture. Furthermore, the component may be a gelatinous component formed from a mineral oil gel.This might be an ignorant ?, but how is a patent able to be obtained when the finished product contains ingredients that already have a patent...ie gel wax? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle Man Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 This might be an ignorant ?, but how is a patent able to be obtained when the finished product contains ingredients that already have a patent...ie gel wax?They are not making the gel so that is not a patent infringement.Their patent if for the concept and process of gel chunks over poured with a paraffin wax.Now if you over pour with soy (and can get the gel/soy mixture to burn right), that ,I think, would not be a patent infringement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsAllME Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Thx Candle Man....Gotta admit, kudos to them for being able to do it...sux for the rest of us "small taters" who simply enjoy making candles, tho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.