I think I figured out Beanpod's formula (sort of)

[topofmurrayhill]

One ingredient is believed to be butyl stearate, which also goes by stearic acid. That ingredient is not commonly used in soy wax, but is primarily used (by crafters) in paraffin to increase opacity in molded pillar candles. Hmmm, maybe I will try a little to see if it helps any with frosting.

That's very interesting...but it's not stearic acid.

As a free fatty acid, it's not unusual to find stearic in vegetable blends. Word has it that it's used in the Cargill C3 formula. You can also see many formulas in the veggie wax patents that include free fatty acids. I don't how much they decrease frosting.

Butyl stearate is different. From what I've been able to glean online in the last few minutes, apparently both fatty acid monoglycerides (USA) and fatty acid esters such as butyl stearate act as emulsifiers. You seem to have discovered a USA alternative. It would be interesting to compare how it works.

An earlier post brought up another possible ingredient that we didn't expect, namely soy oil methyl ester, or methyl soyate. Apparently this stuff is used as a solvent and as a biofuel. I wonder what it does in a candle blend.

[lsbennis]

hmmm...very interesting Geek...I wonder if they use that in CB Advanced to give it such a smooth look. Would the Stearic do anything to the scent throw?

[geekrunner]

hmmm...very interesting Geek...I wonder if they use that in CB Advanced to give it such a smooth look. Would the Stearic do anything to the scent throw?

Couldn't say for sure. Based on my limited knowledge, I would defer to Top on that. I know that stearic acid in a paraffin candle will tend to bind FO up to a certain level, but then at a greater level will release it, which causes mottling in paraffin. I had been under the belief that stearic acid did nothing for soy. I may play around a little with it now that I'm done with my big holiday candle production.

geek

[chris77]

ok, so I'm going to sound like a total newb now.....so what is the difference in Stearic Acid, and Palm Stearic? :embarasse

[kari357]

I have also played with stearic acid and vybar (small amounts) separately and together and still did not achieve anything close to Beanpods product. Maybe I need to try again with varying amouns?

[stacien]

I've always thought Beanpod was a Parasoy. I have a 4 ounce jar sitting right next to me now. FO is Cucumber Melon and the color is perfect red. Anyone who colors 100% soy knows that is a hard color to pull off let alone minimal frosting. Second of all they use Zinc cored wicks. Amazingly so does Root which is a Parasoy blend. Now it is honest phrasing in marketing when they say made from 100% stabilized soy wax. They still use 100% soy wax its the stabilization that gets them the finished product. I imagine their is no perfect machinary that can pour 100% soy wax without imperfections as opposed to hand pouring. I do get irritated when candle companies can't come right out and say Parasoy blend. Like they have a big secret to hide.

[chris77]

I've always thought Beanpod was a Parasoy. I have a 4 ounce jar sitting right next to me now. FO is Cucumber Melon and the color is perfect red. Anyone who colors 100% soy knows that is a hard color to pull off let alone minimal frosting. Second of all they use Zinc cored wicks. Amazingly so does Root which is a Parasoy blend. Now it is honest phrasing in marketing when they say made from 100% stabilized soy wax. They still use 100% soy wax its the stabilization that gets them the finished product. I imagine their is no perfect machinary that can pour 100% soy wax without imperfections as opposed to hand pouring. I do get irritated when candle companies can't come right out and say Parasoy blend. Like they have a big secret to hide.

I did post earlier some quotes from their website...they say that they do not use any paraffin at all in their candles....

[TxSioux]

I received word from one of my anonymous sources that Beanpod does use a soy blend, but it does not have any paraffin in it. One ingredient is believed to be butyl stearate, which also goes by stearic acid. That ingredient is not commonly used in soy wax, but is primarily used (by crafters) in paraffin to increase opacity in molded pillar candles.

Hmmm, maybe I will try a little to see if it helps any with frosting.

geek

After 5 yrs I have a 'blend' down that works well for me & PSA is something I have added to my soy wax for a couple yrs. I used to get slammed hard when I mentioned this, but seems to be not such a far-fetched idea these days. I used to give out my exact amounts, but have stopped doing that. I will tell you I add small amounts of beeswax, PSA & UA to each pound of wax. I use a vegetable blend UA that keeps my blend natural based. With this blend I'm able to use EZ Soy for votives & they're firm enough to withstand most anything the public dishes out. I got cracking when I started testing, but just kept pulling the beeswax down till I found what worked for me. Drop me a line if you decide to test this & I'll be glad to help.

Susan.

[TxSioux]

Second of all they use Zinc cored wicks.

I also use zinc wicks w/ my blend. I have almost eliminated frosting & jump lines. I personally think sitting in the middle of Tx w/ wicked humidity is the biggest problem for me. We all hate frosting & I can't tell you how many customers think it's cool & try to pick out the candles that have the most!! I gave up worrying about it & just count my money!

Susan.

[Crafty1_AJ]

My guess is that the soy wax is "stabilized" by adding some other vegetable wax(es) or components. They say no paraffin; so be it. The soy could still be blended with palm, cottonseed ... whatever. I've got soy/palm wax that is remarkably smoother and harder, and the finished candles hold up far better than a soy container wax typically does over the long haul.

[Antique Collector]

My first guess if a lot of separation from the container is evident, would be stearin is added to the soy, it separates a lot when used 100% in my taper molds, and adding it causes the same effect in the right amount to virtually any wax. It is a natural product (from tallow often, or, palm) though the vegetable only sort of people don't like the tallow based stuff. I just try to keep the tapers I make historically correct and that means natural waxes/fats, but not soy, it's hydrogenated soybean oil, though it's an okay wax.

[Lightning Bug]

HI Susan. Just wondering and showing my lack of knowledge, :embarasse but what does PSA stand for? Thanks. Beth

[Burned Out]

I've used Veg Stearic in soy, and at the right amounts, it does make for a creamier, smoother candle that will release from the container. Cold throw is also fanatistic. Also helps with wetspots. Problem is, the stearic seems to kill the hot throw completely. Even with my best soy compatible FOs. The BeanPod candle I bought to test for myself has amazing hot throw, so I don't think it's Veg Stearic.

I read somewhere on the internet that the BeanPod process involves curing at a higher heat for a specified length of time - around 75 degrees - right after pouring. Of course, now I can't find where I saw that bit of info! But I'll start looking for it again, and post it here when I find it.

Yes, although the candles say "Made with 100% Stabilized Soy Wax", that doesn't mean there aren't other additives included. As long as the extra "stabilizing" additives aren't defined as "wax" i.e. paraffin, beeswax, they could safely make the statement without being guilty of false advertising.

[Cindy/WI]

I would like to know what PSA stand for too. TIA!!

HI Susan. Just wondering and showing my lack of knowledge, :embarasse but what does PSA stand for? Thanks. Beth

[NoOneSpecial]

Palm Steric Acid

[bugtussle]

ok, so I'm going to sound like a total newb now.....so what is the difference in Stearic Acid, and Palm Stearic? :embarasse

Can someone answer this one? I use palm stearic, but have never seen any other kind?? Carole

[Burned Out]

Okay, here is the info I was thinking about from another forum. Couldn't find the exact source that stated it was BeanPod's method, but it is the same method I remember reading about. It goes back to the idea about tempering soy wax as you would temper chocolate that has been discussed here before:

Another thought is what is called tempering. The crystals that the solid wax is comprised of need to stabilize. Do you have an area where you can place the candles for 48 hours in a temperature of about 75 to 80 degrees to cure? Preferably pour the candles in this environment and leave them for the 48 hours. This method is called tempering. The crystals normally continue to cure for some time after the candle solidifies and in this method you have them stabilize at a temperature that good adhesion occurs. It's worth trying.

I also understand Soy Basics / BeanPod is trying to patent their "Tempacure" or tempering process.

[Burned Out]

Hi Carole,

This is really Top's area of expertise. Top? But I do know that there is Palm Stearic (also called Triple Pressed Stearic) and traditional animal fat derived Stearic which was used prior to the Vegetable/Palm version being developed.

Both work in exactly the same way as I understand.

[bugtussle]

Thanks, Burned! I guess I have never seen the animal-fat stearic. Wonder why palm stearic is an acid? Maybe I will hit Wikipedia. Carole

[topofmurrayhill]

Thanks, Burned! I guess I have never seen the animal-fat stearic. Wonder why palm stearic is an acid? Maybe I will hit Wikipedia. Carole

Wikipedia is a good place to look. It has a pretty clear explanation.

Stearic acid is one of the solid components of fat and can be refined from animal fat or produced from vegetable oils. It already exists in soy wax (along with other fatty acids) except it's mostly bound to glycerin molecules three at a time to form a "triglyceride." What you buy from candle suppliers is a "free fatty acid" rather than a triglyceride (iow just the stearic acid with no glycerin) and some veggie wax formulas call for adding some of that.

These days the stearic derived from palm is the most popular. On the one hand it's true that it works the same as the animal stearic. On the other hand, you are never buying a pure product. Every batch of stearic acid can vary in purity and composition regardless of animal or vegetable source.

To a great extent, soy candles are a throwback to deriving candle fuel from fats and oils. Whether animal or vegetable, the chemistry of it is very similar. We have a large soy crop in the USA and they are always looking for different ways to sell it. Instead of animal products, vegetable shortenings like GB 415 are plentiful as the preferred ingredients for food production. Some of it gets sold for candlemaking as well.

[bugtussle]

Thanks, Top. Did Santa bring you a TurknSurf? If not, better go get you one. Happy New Year! Carole

[gicandles]

I suspect they are made out of EL Millenium blend wax as the Millenium blend shrinks as does not adhere to the glass. Hence why all beanpod candles are in containers with narrower tops. To prevent the candle from falling out. EL and Beanpod/Soybasics are the same people. Still no parrafin though.

[chris77]

I suspect they are made out of EL Millenium blend wax as the Millenium blend shrinks as does not adhere to the glass. Hence why all beanpod candles are in containers with narrower tops. To prevent the candle from falling out. EL and Beanpod/Soybasics are the same people. Still no parrafin though.

And here I've been holding on to that little secret hoping no one would find out while I'm testing....muahahahahahaha

[Rebecca]

When I have used their wax I have always used the stearic acid they sell and it helped with frosting, lumps, and FO throw.

I also have noticed through calling a few candle companies that they use the same play with words on the EO issue in their candles.

All in the advertising...

[Fern-Marie]

Geek...I put my tin foil hat on and I think you are right!

Hell, we all know that these guys are buying soys from the same manufacturers that supply our suppliers. I don't believe for a minute that there's some little lab tech mixing, blending, pouring, and testing without some major help from a major manufacturer. Trade Secrets my ***

Somewhere along the line some genius like Geek is going to shake and sniff, hope I'm not getting too personal here dude, and figure out which wax they are using.

I wondered if or when someone who has tested and worked with so many waxes would be able to spot a wax and notice a familiarity...and spill the Bean Pod. It was only a matter of time.

Kudos, Geek! Very astute.

Fascinating info on the "AD" lingo.

Isn't it odd that we 'home crafters' are turning out to be the truest to the craft...no fancy lawyering to help us sleeze out some sales with legal jargin that the average consumer would undoubtedly think is dishonest, or misleading. Deception is legal as long as it's worded correctly....?

The rats can't win all the rat races.