omiller2109 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I use GB 464 soy wax and I can never get good hot throw. I heat to 185 and add FO, stir for 2 minutes, pour at 130/135. I am using the max FO at 12%. I have tested with ECO 8 and ECO 10. 10 seems too big (flickering flame and black smoke occasionally) while the 8 seems to not burn all the way across! I need any and all advice. Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRoomGraduate Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 What's the diameter of the containers you're using? If you haven't tried yet, I would try cutting back your fragrance load to 6% or 8%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omiller2109 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 Between 2.5” and 3” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRoomGraduate Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Ah, ok. ECO 10 should be fine for that size. So I think you are using too much fragrance -- 12% is a lot. You're giving your candles too much fuel, that explains the soot and too-big flickering flame. Do some tests with ECO 10s and a 6% and an 8% FO load. I'm thinking you'll get much better results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omiller2109 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 I will have to give that a try! Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runner14jc Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Definitely agree on trying to decrease the fragrance load. I usually don't go over 9-10% at the most. It's a little counter-intuitive but more fragrance does not always mean more hot throw. Also be sure you are allowing them enough cure time. I wait at least 1 week with 464 but get better results with 2 weeks if I can wait that long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruralers Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 I am having the same issue with 464 and it's quite frustrating! I seem to have the mechanics of the candle down: the melt pool, wick, no cracks, etc. The cold throw is wonderful, but then the hot throw is a disappointment. Ugh. Is the general rule of thumb that 464 will only give you a light (minimal) hot throw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfroberts Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 1 hour ago, ruralers said: I am having the same issue with 464 and it's quite frustrating! I seem to have the mechanics of the candle down: the melt pool, wick, no cracks, etc. The cold throw is wonderful, but then the hot throw is a disappointment. Ugh. Is the general rule of thumb that 464 will only give you a light (minimal) hot throw? There are several factors. How long are you curing? What FO's are you using? What wick and container? That info will help narrow it down a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruralers Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 14 hours ago, bfroberts said: There are several factors. How long are you curing? What FO's are you using? What wick and container? That info will help narrow it down a bit. Thanks for replying! I have been using a 2.5 inch diameter container, GB 464, eco 10. This last batch I used FO from candlescience (bakery scents) at 9%, in hopes of getting a stronger throw than my 6% previous tests. I tested at 8 days and the hot throw was very poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRoomGraduate Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 What kind of thermometer are you using to measure the temperature of the wax? Here's my story with 464. I was using a regular candy thermometer when I started making candles, and was having similar issues with hot throw. Turns out it wasn't giving me accurate readings, either because I was measuring the temperature of the bottom of my pot where the thermometer was resting (and thus adding my FO at too low a temp) or because it just wasn't an accurate thermometer. Switched to one of the infrared thermometers and I've gotten MUCH better results since then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruralers Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 1 hour ago, RedRoomGraduate said: What kind of thermometer are you using to measure the temperature of the wax? Here's my story with 464. I was using a regular candy thermometer when I started making candles, and was having similar issues with hot throw. Turns out it wasn't giving me accurate readings, either because I was measuring the temperature of the bottom of my pot where the thermometer was resting (and thus adding my FO at too low a temp) or because it just wasn't an accurate thermometer. Switched to one of the infrared thermometers and I've gotten MUCH better results since then. That a really interesting thought. I am using a candy thermometer. I will look into a different one, now that you mention it. I was also wondering if the climate would affect curing time. I live in the Midwest, and it gets pretty hot and humid here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 Could be overwicked. Eco10 in a narrow jar of 464 seems a bit large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandlekrazy Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 22 hours ago, ruralers said: That a really interesting thought. I am using a candy thermometer. I will look into a different one, now that you mention it. I was also wondering if the climate would affect curing time. I live in the Midwest, and it gets pretty hot and humid here. humidity will def have an impact on candlemaking overall. I used a dehumidifier when I lived at the beach, I recently moved where the humidity is typically 35-40% so I no longer need to use it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruralers Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 2 hours ago, kandlekrazy said: humidity will def have an impact on candlemaking overall. I used a dehumidifier when I lived at the beach, I recently moved where the humidity is typically 35-40% so I no longer need to use it. My hair would be so happy there! We are holding steady at 95% humidity. Did you use a dehumidifier in the area that your cured your candles or just in general? Thanks for the advice! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenni Wix Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 I used an Eco 8 with 444 in a 2.5" diameter straight sided glass jar, with 10% BB's Gingersnap (blended with other bakery scents, it's been a while). That wick worked for a powerful cold and hot throw. I know the wax is different as far as melt point, but maybe it goes to show a little less fragrance and wicking down might help in that jar size. And I haven't had luck with over 10% FO, even when seller says otherwise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandlekrazy Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 On 9/6/2018 at 1:57 PM, ruralers said: My hair would be so happy there! We are holding steady at 95% humidity. Did you use a dehumidifier in the area that your cured your candles or just in general? Thanks for the advice! Just in my workshop area which was a studio apt on the lower level of our house. So prob 1000 sq ft and it did a great job, I did everything candlemaking there including curing. Just didn't burn there much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omiller2109 Posted September 8, 2018 Author Share Posted September 8, 2018 Tested a candle at 7% FO with 464 and Eco 10 wick. Cured for 1 week . I’m using 1/2 pint (8 oz) mason jars and getting absolutely no hot throw. Adding fragrance at 185, stirring 2 minutes and pouring around 135. This is frustrating! What am I doing wrong?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenni Wix Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 I've heard of some FO's getting a good throw after a longer cure, at least two weeks with soy. I hear you. I'm having trouble with some fragrance oil/wick etc combos too. Have you tried a slightly smaller Eco for that jar, like an 8? Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenni Wix Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Sorry, I just saw where you said 8 didn't burn a wide enough MP. Hmmm. Might it with lower FO percentage? I'm curious. Not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CristiLee Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) I would suggest adding FO at a much cooler temperature. Try adding around 145 and play with the temperature from there. I also agree that you should use a lower FO load... generally around 8%. Everyone says to add FO at 185 with golden brands but I have not found it to be successful. Also as someone who recently had horrific results in a studio with high humidity I definitely recommend making and storing candle products in a controlled humidity environment as well as letting your wax "air out" for a few hours before melting and using. Humidity can definitely wreak havoc on the products and the process, I still have the tear-stained sheets to prove it LOL. ALSO... in my opinion you should get a decent enough HT after 24 hours of curing for testing purposes. If you can't smell it at all after that amount of time it's probably a dud. I test mine after 24 hours and they easily fill a 12x12 foot room or more. Edited September 19, 2018 by CristiLee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruralers Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Update, I revisited my no-throw candles again and they seem to be preforming much better. You can actually smell the candles now, so that's a huge improvement. Thanks for all the advice. Hello curing time! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilligan Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 On 9/18/2018 at 11:24 PM, CristiLee said: I would suggest adding FO at a much cooler temperature. Try adding around 145 and play with the temperature from there. I also agree that you should use a lower FO load... generally around 8%. Everyone says to add FO at 185 with golden brands but I have not found it to be successful. Also as someone who recently had horrific results in a studio with high humidity I definitely recommend making and storing candle products in a controlled humidity environment as well as letting your wax "air out" for a few hours before melting and using. Humidity can definitely wreak havoc on the products and the process, I still have the tear-stained sheets to prove it LOL. ALSO... in my opinion you should get a decent enough HT after 24 hours of curing for testing purposes. If you can't smell it at all after that amount of time it's probably a dud. I test mine after 24 hours and they easily fill a 12x12 foot room or more. I On 9/18/2018 at 11:24 PM, CristiLee said: I would suggest adding FO at a much cooler temperature. Try adding around 145 and play with the temperature from there. I also agree that you should use a lower FO load... generally around 8%. Everyone says to add FO at 185 with golden brands but I have not found it to be successful. Also as someone who recently had horrific results in a studio with high humidity I definitely recommend making and storing candle products in a controlled humidity environment as well as letting your wax "air out" for a few hours before melting and using. Humidity can definitely wreak havoc on the products and the process, I still have the tear-stained sheets to prove it LOL. ALSO... in my opinion you should get a decent enough HT after 24 hours of curing for testing purposes. If you can't smell it at all after that amount of time it's probably a dud. I test mine after 24 hours and they easily fill a 12x12 foot room or more. I would love to know what wicks you have found to work well. I am currently using a 9% load, 464, 3” diameter jar and tried htp1212 and 105 and I can not get a hot throw in quite a few of my fo’s - I get a full melt pool, and some mushrooming but no soot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Do you happen to have any ECO wicks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruralers Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 I have had good luck with ECO and CD wicks. At this point, I can't really say which works better for me. I make candles with both brands and then test to determine which one preforms better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CristiLee Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 @gilligan I use ECO wicks. The size depends on the width and material of the container I am using. If you are successful with some of your oils and not others, it might be the oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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