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Poor Hot Throw


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I use GB 464 soy wax and I can never get good hot throw. I heat to 185 and add FO, stir for 2 minutes, pour at 130/135. I am using the max FO at 12%. I have tested with ECO 8 and ECO 10. 10 seems too big (flickering flame and black smoke occasionally) while the 8 seems to not burn all the way across! I need any and all advice. Thanks.

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Ah, ok. ECO 10 should be fine for that size. So I think you are using too much fragrance -- 12% is a lot. You're giving your candles too much fuel, that explains the soot and too-big flickering flame. Do some tests with ECO 10s and a 6% and an 8% FO load. I'm thinking you'll get much better results. 

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Definitely agree on trying to decrease the fragrance load. I usually don't go over 9-10% at the most. It's a little counter-intuitive but more fragrance does not always mean more hot throw. Also be sure you are allowing them enough cure time. I wait at least 1 week with 464 but get better results with 2 weeks if I can wait that long ;)

 

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I am having the same issue with 464 and it's quite frustrating! I seem to have the mechanics of the candle down: the melt pool, wick, no cracks, etc.  The cold throw is wonderful, but then the hot throw is a disappointment.  Ugh.  Is the general rule of thumb that 464 will only give you a light (minimal) hot throw?  

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1 hour ago, ruralers said:

I am having the same issue with 464 and it's quite frustrating! I seem to have the mechanics of the candle down: the melt pool, wick, no cracks, etc.  The cold throw is wonderful, but then the hot throw is a disappointment.  Ugh.  Is the general rule of thumb that 464 will only give you a light (minimal) hot throw?  

There are several factors.  How long are you curing?   What FO's are you using?  What wick and container?  That info will help narrow it down a bit.

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14 hours ago, bfroberts said:

There are several factors.  How long are you curing?   What FO's are you using?  What wick and container?  That info will help narrow it down a bit.

Thanks for replying!  I have been using a 2.5 inch diameter container, GB 464, eco 10.  This last batch I used FO from candlescience (bakery scents) at 9%, in hopes of getting a stronger throw than my 6% previous tests.  I tested at 8 days and the hot throw was very poor.  

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What kind of thermometer are you using to measure the temperature of the wax? Here's my story with 464. 

 

I was using a regular candy thermometer when I started making candles, and was having similar issues with hot throw. Turns out it wasn't giving me accurate readings, either because I was measuring the temperature of the bottom of my pot where the thermometer was resting (and thus adding my FO at too low a temp) or because it just wasn't an accurate thermometer. Switched to one of the infrared thermometers and I've gotten MUCH better results since then. 

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1 hour ago, RedRoomGraduate said:

What kind of thermometer are you using to measure the temperature of the wax? Here's my story with 464. 

 

I was using a regular candy thermometer when I started making candles, and was having similar issues with hot throw. Turns out it wasn't giving me accurate readings, either because I was measuring the temperature of the bottom of my pot where the thermometer was resting (and thus adding my FO at too low a temp) or because it just wasn't an accurate thermometer. Switched to one of the infrared thermometers and I've gotten MUCH better results since then. 

That a really interesting thought.  I am using a candy thermometer.  I will look into a different one, now that you mention it.  I was also wondering if the climate would affect curing time.  I live in the Midwest, and it gets pretty hot and humid here.

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22 hours ago, ruralers said:

That a really interesting thought.  I am using a candy thermometer.  I will look into a different one, now that you mention it.  I was also wondering if the climate would affect curing time.  I live in the Midwest, and it gets pretty hot and humid here.

humidity will def have an impact on candlemaking overall.  I used a dehumidifier when I lived at the beach, I recently moved where the humidity is typically 35-40% so I no longer need to use it.

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2 hours ago, kandlekrazy said:

humidity will def have an impact on candlemaking overall.  I used a dehumidifier when I lived at the beach, I recently moved where the humidity is typically 35-40% so I no longer need to use it.

My hair would be so happy there!  We are holding steady at 95% humidity.  Did you use a dehumidifier in the area that your cured your candles or just in general?  Thanks for the advice! 

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I used an Eco 8 with 444 in a 2.5" diameter straight sided glass jar, with 10% BB's Gingersnap (blended with other bakery scents, it's been a while).  That wick worked for a powerful cold and hot throw.  I know the wax is different as far as melt point, but maybe it goes to show a little less fragrance and wicking down might help in that jar size. And I haven't had luck with over 10% FO, even when seller says otherwise.     

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On 9/6/2018 at 1:57 PM, ruralers said:

My hair would be so happy there!  We are holding steady at 95% humidity.  Did you use a dehumidifier in the area that your cured your candles or just in general?  Thanks for the advice! 

Just in my workshop area which was a studio apt on the lower level of our house.  So prob 1000 sq ft and it did a great job, I did everything candlemaking there including curing.  Just didn't burn there much.

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I've heard of some FO's getting a good throw after a longer cure, at least two weeks with soy.  I hear you.  I'm having trouble with some fragrance oil/wick etc combos too.  Have you tried a slightly smaller Eco for that jar, like an 8? Just a thought.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

I would suggest adding FO at a much cooler temperature.  Try adding around 145 and play with the temperature from there.  I also agree that you should use a lower FO load... generally around 8%.  Everyone says to add FO at 185 with golden brands but I have not found it to be successful.  

 

Also as someone who recently had horrific results in a studio with high humidity I definitely recommend making and storing candle products in a controlled humidity environment as well as letting your wax "air out" for a few hours before melting and using.  Humidity can definitely wreak havoc on the products and the process, I still have the tear-stained sheets to prove it LOL. 

 

ALSO... in my opinion you should get a decent enough HT after 24 hours of curing for testing purposes.  If you can't smell it at all after that amount of time it's probably a dud.   I test mine after 24 hours and they easily fill a 12x12 foot room or more.

Edited by CristiLee
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 9/18/2018 at 11:24 PM, CristiLee said:

I would suggest adding FO at a much cooler temperature.  Try adding around 145 and play with the temperature from there.  I also agree that you should use a lower FO load... generally around 8%.  Everyone says to add FO at 185 with golden brands but I have not found it to be successful.  

 

Also as someone who recently had horrific results in a studio with high humidity I definitely recommend making and storing candle products in a controlled humidity environment as well as letting your wax "air out" for a few hours before melting and using.  Humidity can definitely wreak havoc on the products and the process, I still have the tear-stained sheets to prove it LOL. 

 

ALSO... in my opinion you should get a decent enough HT after 24 hours of curing for testing purposes.  If you can't smell it at all after that amount of time it's probably a dud.   I test mine after 24 hours and they easily fill a 12x12 foot room or more.

I

 

On 9/18/2018 at 11:24 PM, CristiLee said:

I would suggest adding FO at a much cooler temperature.  Try adding around 145 and play with the temperature from there.  I also agree that you should use a lower FO load... generally around 8%.  Everyone says to add FO at 185 with golden brands but I have not found it to be successful.  

 

Also as someone who recently had horrific results in a studio with high humidity I definitely recommend making and storing candle products in a controlled humidity environment as well as letting your wax "air out" for a few hours before melting and using.  Humidity can definitely wreak havoc on the products and the process, I still have the tear-stained sheets to prove it LOL. 

 

ALSO... in my opinion you should get a decent enough HT after 24 hours of curing for testing purposes.  If you can't smell it at all after that amount of time it's probably a dud.   I test mine after 24 hours and they easily fill a 12x12 foot room or more.

I would love to know what wicks you have found to work well. I am currently using a 9% load, 464, 3” diameter jar and tried htp1212 and 105 and I can not get a hot throw in quite a few of my fo’s - I get a full melt pool, and some mushrooming but no soot. 

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