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What do you think of this meeting?


Trappeur

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1. They are either looking for a supplier or
2. They want to hire you. Come to work for us as our master candlemaker for $XX.XXX salary or hourly wage.)
Either way, it sounds like they're just not very sophisticated in business matters.


Some things from your post that jumped out at me with my thoughts in brackets [Q: = Me ].

Trapp:

"Their goal that they are going to do is they want to wholesale to stores and [1 huge big name company which I also won't mention the name of is in the works]"

Q: 

[...or so they say. Don't we all wish for that one HUGE deal? Probably just blowing smoke but possibly true. I doubt it.]

 

Trapp:

"How much wax would it take to produce a large order of x amount of candles, what size wicks do I use for the style jar candle, where do I buy my wax from, wicks, oils,  etc"

Q:

[Rude and inappropriate for them to ask, but they may just be curious to see if they can afford this, while at the same time, trying to sound like they're knowledgeable.]

 

Trapp:

"This is what I'm thinking.  Anyone as we all know if they wanted to get into this field you go to the internet and find out everything, we all know that."

Q:

[No. Not everyone can. It has taken me nearly a year to figure how to get ANY sort of throw from a candle! They either don't have the time to do that, don't know how, or they just don't want to do it. They need a supplier. That's you, in their eyes.]

 

Trapp:

"They wanted to know if they give me a big huge order how long it would take for me to make and also they wanted to know if I could afford to order all supplies saying if I had to order $5,000.00 of supplies just to get started."  

Q:

[They're sizing you up to see if you can handle a big job. That's a reasonable question for them to ask.]

 

Trapp: 

"...they told me they know where i get my jars from at a grocery store in town and they in fact went and bought a case of these jars as the jars were sitting right there."

Q:

[Probably just a bargaining ploy on their part. They thought they were being clever. NOT!]

 

Trapp:

"They are in fact selling them for 22.00 (that is a triple markup)...kudos to them is what I say" 

Q:

[Listing them. That doesn't mean they're getting any orders at those prices. +SHIPPING?]

 

Trapp:

"How that company could ship the same style jar as I do for 6.50 which included the shipping is unbelievable but that is what they said."

Q:

[They're just saying that. Same tactic they used with the jars from the store. We've all shopped the internet long enough to know that price is impossible.]

 

Trapp:

"Bottom line is I'm not willing to have them order all supplies for me and know my sources..."

Q:

[You're absolutely right. You can honestly tell them you can't guarantee anything unless Trapp does the whole project.]

 

Trapp:

"They even went so far as to say they would go and pickup my wax to save on shipping."

Q:

[That's a plausible story, perhaps. I would consider such an offer.]

 

Well that was fun. I know from reading the other replies that I'm in the minority on this topic, but that's just what I garnered from Trapp's post. Very interesting topic. I'm pushing the post button in 3,2,1...
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

 

 


 

 

 

 


 

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Well, the NERVE! :mad:  When I get those type of questions from my incense customers, I just laugh a little and tell them that it's a well guarded secret how I make them :)   I did create my scent and dpg mixtures myself, through trial and error, just like I do with candles. Thus, I disclose NO mixtures, formulas, suppliers, waxes or any other thing that goes into it with a potential customer. Period. Same answer.

 

They do sound like they are trying to cut you out, or duplicate what you make...which is ridiculous, because without YOU, they have no candle line that's of the quality THEY already determined you have. No more answers for them, except for "do let me know if you'd like to place an order with me" with a smile :) Glad you brought this to the board. I'm always happy to help another candle maker out (with what I consider limited knowledge), but in this circumstance it sounds like they are trying to steal your business!

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1 hour ago, GoldieMN said:

@ShelleyF Great names!  I wish I was that creative as I prefer to change the names of the oil used as well.  But then I forget to write the original fo down.  Now what oil did I use to make "Cabin in the Woods"?  lol

GoldieMN

Coming up with different names can be really tough. I'm always coming across a candle I made that had a great scent. I forgot to write it down. Back to the names, I still can't come up with any clever name for Lavender except "Lavender". :rockon:

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18 minutes ago, Hopie said:

When I get those type of questions from my incense customers, I just laugh a little and tell them that it's a well guarded secret how I make them :) 

That's probably the best way to handle it. Or maybe, "It's my great-grandmother's secret recipe.";)

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I was always skeptical when someone wanted specifics from me. I mean they need some detail so that they could market it but i think they went a bit to far. 

 

It sounds like to me they are wanting specifics to cut you out all together and the candle would remain the same because they are using thr same products. 

Sucks that they tried talking you down, i cant stand people like that. 

 

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8 hours ago, ellajoan said:

I've had a few friends assume that candle making is simply---melt the wax, add the oil, pop in a wick, done.  A few of them are trying to copy our scents, jars, etc and asking us all of these questions as well.  None of them know that each candle involves months of trial and error and testing, testing, testing.  Whenever they ask me these specific questions, I tend to say--if you want to try your hand at candlemaking, there are plenty of websites that offer starter kit.  Heck, I'll even direct them here if they are serious--but I'm not planning on giving years of work away for nothing just because someone thinks this craft is easy.

I know it isn't happening. I haven't been doing it for years but I've done lots of research and many mistakes. I have my wax formula finally right and people want you to tell them your secrets. No way. Why would we do that? One lady had nerve to ask what supplier I got my Love Spell from so she could buy the oil to just diffuse it instead of buying melts. I told her there are many suppliers that sell it. Most  Love Spell are similar and grapefruits but I love the one that isn't. It's magical the one I've found and I tried 7 different ones before finding it. I was upset because she bought one and she picked right and got the right one the first time. Yes you guessed it. She only diffuses now and doesn't buy melts. Said she loves it and is saving money. I was so mad and sad that someone could do that. 

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7 hours ago, ScentedPleasurez said:

I was always skeptical when someone wanted specifics from me. I mean they need some detail so that they could market it but i think they went a bit to far. 

 

It sounds like to me they are wanting specifics to cut you out all together and the candle would remain the same because they are using thr same products. 

Sucks that they tried talking you down, i cant stand people like that. 

 

You are exactly right. I thought the same thing. They already have their name on it so they have to have it the same. I can't stand people like that either. It's disgusting. 

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7 hours ago, Quentin said:

That's probably the best way to handle it. Or maybe, "It's my great-grandmother's secret recipe.";)

 

7 hours ago, Quentin said:

Coming up with different names can be really tough. I'm always coming across a candle I made that had a great scent. I forgot to write it down. Back to the names, I still can't come up with any clever name for Lavender except "Lavender". :rockon:

lol I will have to do that. I do tell people it's my secret but something about Grandma might work better.

 

I haven't renamed Lavender yet but how about Soft Lavender if it's a lighter one which I have some lighter ones or Loud Lavender lol or Bold Lavender if it's very overpowering. I'm grasping at straws here lol

I renamed Nag Champa The 1960's

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8 hours ago, Hopie said:

Well, the NERVE! :mad:  When I get those type of questions from my incense customers, I just laugh a little and tell them that it's a well guarded secret how I make them :)   I did create my scent and dpg mixtures myself, through trial and error, just like I do with candles. Thus, I disclose NO mixtures, formulas, suppliers, waxes or any other thing that goes into it with a potential customer. Period. Same answer.

 

They do sound like they are trying to cut you out, or duplicate what you make...which is ridiculous, because without YOU, they have no candle line that's of the quality THEY already determined you have. No more answers for them, except for "do let me know if you'd like to place an order with me" with a smile :) Glad you brought this to the board. I'm always happy to help another candle maker out (with what I consider limited knowledge), but in this circumstance it sounds like they are trying to steal your business!

They are and it's pitiful. Trap is too smart to fall for that. Her candles are beautiful. Customers would know something happened as they can't make them like her. I bored a lady that I thought was going to ask because the conversation was headed that way. Lol so I said this business has SO many waxes. 30 paraffin, 100 soy, 40 palm, etc. Of course I don't know how many of each lol but she was so shocked she definitely didn't ask. Lol 

 

Here's one for you. lol I told a lady recently they have parasoy, paracoco,soy, coconut, palm, beeswax, paraffin, then said 415, 444, 464, and starting naming g bunch of numbers of soy, coconut, paraffin, and palm, feather etc. Lol said she thought this would be easy. Haha sorry lol it isnt

This is the biggest challenge I ever had but love it. I love a challenge. I'm addicted to it.

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It seems that if they were trying to get their price down through helping you order with a quantity discount, let's say for your wax or jars, then the way in which they asked would not be how one would go about that.  If you were wishing to create a discount through helping your supplier make purchase minimums to receive a lower price on the raw materials, you wouldn't approach it from an angle of purchasing it yourself, you'd draw up an agreement, loan the necessary money to the local supplier and create a special pricing structure with them based on the discounts they would be granted by being able to purchase in quantity.  That's it ... they would need to know nothing else ... they would instead be asking how much wax do you need to buy in order to get a discount from your supplier and go from there. 

 

It would be nice to think that they are simply trying to arrange a win-win relationship with you, but as others have noted, they said some things that tell you otherwise.  I'd still sell them, but I'd keep them on a short leash.  😉

 

On the other hand, if they want to propose a loan along with a purchase order, then you may be looking at something more worthwhile.

 

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13 hours ago, Quentin said:

Coming up with different names can be really tough. I'm always coming across a candle I made that had a great scent. I forgot to write it down. Back to the names, I still can't come up with any clever name for Lavender except "Lavender

how about  calling your Lavender...Tuscan Summer ,...Provence ...Tuscan afternoon ..sleepytime...

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Well, I just had something happen from a phone call I just got from a supplier that is like a bomb just went off in my house of what transpired between this person and the supplier that has hit me like a lead balloon.   I'm so upset and my hands are shaking I can't even type here.   Will come back as soon as I can calm down.   I just can't believe what has taken place.

 

Trappeur

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3 minutes ago, Trappeur said:

Well, I just had something happen from a phone call I just got from a supplier that is like a bomb just went off in my house of what transpired between this person and the supplier that has hit me like a lead balloon.   I'm so upset and my hands are shaking I can't even type here.   Will come back as soon as I can calm down.   I just can't believe what has taken place.

 

Trappeur

 

I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this. I know how incredibly stressful these situations can be.  Best of luck, Trapp.  Please come back for some moral support.  We all love you!

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Just because they know what is in your candles doesn’t mean they could make them. It would be funny to see them try. You make a great product, they won’t find any better candles out there. It is not unreasonable for them to expect some sort of volume discount, but it is up to you to decide what terms you are willing to offer. The first question you need to answer is how much more work are you willing to take on. I would suggest that you email them and politely, but firmly, tell them what you are willing to do. Tell them you’ll need a deposit for orders over a certain amount and how much deposit you’ll need. They seem to want to turn you into an employee, but you already have a business. I’m sure the friendly handshake agreements work well most of the time in Blue Ridge, but it looks to me like something a little more formal is needed in this case.  I would give them prices and terms and let them decide if they want to buy your candles or not.

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To make this short and quick typing here, first off everyone here (too numerous to mention) but all of you here thankyou for giving me the support in this discussion going on.   What we have all talked about the whys and thinking and wondering the reasons of what the intentions are of this couple I believe we have all been correct in assuming they asked all the questions of me to get my formula of how I make a candle and how the supposed help they were leading me to think (thinking I was a dummy also I guess) of them buying all supplies to "supposedly help me out".....was nothing but lies told to me in our 2 hour meeting at their home 2 days ago.   I just received a phone call from a supplier that we all order from of which I will not mention who it is as it was so very decent that they even called me in the first place as they really didn't need to in the first place.....but she called me to tell me that yesterday this couple came into their business and ordered the waxes and other supplies needed to make candles.  It was heard that this couple mentioned my name to them.   She couldn't tell me what they ordered or how much but as it is against policy.  The reason she did call me is because yesterday after thinking what transpired in my meeting with them and after discussing things here on the board, for some reason, I don't know what made me think of it, but I did, I decided to call my supplier and I asked them should for some reason someone came into there business wanting to buy the supplies and waxes I use, I wanted them NOT to tell this couple anything about what I order or my business.  I just had a gut feeling as I have had since the meeting, and as us here discussing on the forum they were asking all the wrong questions and you don't do what they did to me..When I spoke with the woman at the supplier she said not to worry as it their policy not to give out any information to anyone who comes in, God forbid someone trying to copy me........I have been ordering from this supplier from the day they opened up and have an excellent reputation with them and I order from them EVERY single week for these years which isn't peanuts, well for me it isn't peanuts......When she called me a bit ago, she said, remember when you called me yesterday about something that you thought might happen?    Well it did!!!!!!But what I don't understand is how did they know what wax I use or wicks, etc....when I NEVER divulged that info to them..I never did.  When I asked the woman since she didn't take the order, could it be possible that whoever took the order went and looked up what I order and tell this husband and wife and she said she believes not.....But how did this happen????I am soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo mad you have no......................idea.......  I wished now at this point she never even called me, but I'm glad on another note.   So right now as soon as I finish typing here the bomb is going to hit the fan and I'm calling them right now and I am going to have a very detailed discussion with these people.  I just don't know how to start off this discusson.  I'm going to act real dumb and see just what they divulge to me, if they do, that they in fact  did go to my supplier and did in fact buy all what was needed.  I have to get my big girl panties on and take a deep breath, be calm, and not blow up.   You know I always give people the benefit of the doubt and am so honest, but this really took the icing off the cake.    And on top of it all, they tell me they are going to my biggest account and make a presentation of things they sell to try to land an account with them, like t shirts, mugs. etc....They asked me if I made another style candle jar that they could offer to my biggest account that they would like to possibly sell to them.....imagine that?   They know that my account sells other candle companies in there and name brands too like Wood Wick, Illume etc, but ever since I landed that account 4 years ago I'm proud to say my candles sell by far the best in there over the name brand ones as they sell at honest prices my candles.   It even amazes me that my little candles that I make in my kitchen and I deliver to them that the sales are as big as they are for me....but believe me, I work hard at it and many a night I haven't gone to bed to keep up with keeping them supplied  and all year long.   I told them I WOULD NOT make another style candle for them to sell them to my account when I already sell to them and I definitely don't want them to approach them......Now how disgusting is that they would think up an idea like that?    Do people really do things like that?  oh my gosh....These people are go getters that is for sure and they may be newly retiring and have the big bucks and bought a cabin up here and have big plans.....As little as I am, I'm not going to let someone walk all over me...I just can't.    I have worked so dilligently hard all these years to get where I am.    I'm not a factory.. I mind my own business living here in the mountains, I'm all by myself with my menagerie of animals that I just love and work right in my little kitchen doing what I truly love, candles, I've worked hard to secure absolutely beautiful accounts and honest ones that you just don't see nowadays....If I can't make candles, I can't feed my animals....Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill, I don't know,  but do know I'm not used to dealing with deceitful people.   All they had to do was be honest with me as I have always been.   Well, it 's time to make that dreaded phone call to them right now....  Wish me luck...I'm so easy to walk over me, but not this time...Wish me luck.....cause I'm going to speak my peace.:(

 

Trappeur

 

If  I had big enough "B.....lls" I'd get in my truck right now and drive down the road to their cabin unannounced and walk up to the front door which you see right into the kitchen and shock the crap out of them as I could see them trying to make a candle.....Now wouldn't that frost their butts......

To each their own....if they had intentions to go in this direction, they should have been honest up front right while we were in that meeting.  Oh yes, too....I never thought about it till a while ago....all the time this discussion was going on and they were sleazily picking my brain for all the answers, every time I answered them, he happened to be sitting in a chair opposite me with his lap top and every time I answered he very quickly was always typing something into his computer.....Now I know why....taking all notes.   But unfortunately, when I walked out the door and was driving away, they really never got any answers from me so they knew as much as when I left as before I even got there...NOTHING....Too bad....for him.....Wish me luck as here goes nothing....

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I wish luck.  I am sad that i was right in my thinking from the start as well ass sorry this happened to you.  I would of much rather been wrong on this one.  If they ordered the exact same things you do then someone spilled the info to them.. We all know that there are people working at companies that do not follow policies.

 

Once again sorry this happened and good luck with whatever happens from here.  

 

Thanks for the update on this as well.

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@Trappeur If they happen to be on this forum, they could have gotten most the info from here.  

 

Conniving, greedy people is how I would tag them.  I hope the wholesale account says no to their candles.  I would be totally stressed as well.  Get some of that chocolate wine and sit with your cats.  Then figure out a way to take that skunk over to their house. lol

GoldieMN

 

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4 minutes ago, GoldieMN said:

@Trappeur If they happen to be on this forum, they could have gotten most the info from here.  

 

Conniving, greedy people is how I would tag them.  I hope the wholesale account says no to their candles.  I would be totally stressed as well.  Get some of that chocolate wine and sit with your cats.  Then figure out a way to take that skunk over to their house. lol

GoldieMN

 

You made me laugh Goldie....thanks...needed that.

Oh I have thought many a time what if they are on this forum....you never know...

 

Well if you are Jerry and Suzanne (that is their names), and your reading this.... shame shame on you....Karma will get you.....

 

Trappeur

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Even though they bought the exact things i guarantee that their final product wont be like yours. Every crafter has their own little tricks or spins, it could be the temp you pour or whatever, plus its a little thing called karma and she has a way of biting people in their ass when its least expected. 

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I can almost guarantee that they will not test candles properly before selling them.  So there candles will more than likely end up being very poor quality and in the end that will defiantly make it harder for them to make any money off repeat buyers.

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