Palm wax candle making course - interested???

[MichelleinMD]

Hey guys!  I just wanted to put this out there to see who might be interested in this.  I am in the process of launching an online course called Palm Wax Candle Making for Fun and Profit.  I have been a palm wax candle maker for nearly 10 years - creating my own candle business and even opened a store front to boot.  I also now it is pretty difficult to find the right info about making palm wax candles which is why I want to teach an in-depth course on the topic.  The course, which is broken into 5 different modules, will cover everything about what is palm wax, sharing real facts that discredit the negative publicity that surround the palm oil industry, discuss and list ingredients and equipment needed to make palm wax candles - plus resource guide on where to buy the materials too, a full professional video production showing the whole candle making process, how to fix common issues that occur when making palm wax candles, and a big section just on how to go from a candle making as a hobby to start one's on small business and what steps to take to get you there so anyone can make a profit doing what they love - making candles!  

 

If any of this sounds interesting and want more info, the link is... [link edited for self promotion]   In case you can't wait, if you go to the link there is info to actually get the free checklist on candle making ingredients and supples with links on where to get them NOW,  via the same link too.  I expect the course to launch, crossing my fingers, for the first week of July 2018.  

 

Thanks!!!

Michelle

 

 

[Amish]

As a beginner and a 5 month lurker, I would definitely be interested. Soy wax is way too frustrating. 

[birdcharm]

On 6/13/2018 at 10:43 AM, MichelleinMD said:

 

.... will cover everything about what is palm wax, sharing real facts that discredit the negative publicity that surround the palm oil industry ...

 

 

I personally don't feel that the palm oil industry is receiving "negative publicity" for no reason.  I know that some palm products for cosmetics and candles are certified by the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil (RSPO), but that doesn't exactly solve all the problems.  I see that at least one (that I know of) popular candle making supply house now refuses to carry palm wax completely.   I see palm wax mentioned quite a bit, but I do not know if all suppliers are sure that their products are RSPO, and I'm also not sure that if they are it necessarily means there is no current habitat destruction; certainly, the plantations are monocultures of what once was vital and beautiful flora and fauna.  I really feel that this aspect of this product should not be disregarded.

 

 

[ScentedPleasurez]

4 minutes ago, birdcharm said:

I see that at least one (that I know of) popular candle making supply house now refuses to carry palm

That was a big step to make and really speaks volumes of that particular company. I had purchased palm from them andvread their response as to why it was removed. It was a big seller for them. Im surprised that so  many are still using palm. 

[Amish]

Candle Science said something about not carrying it for similar reasons too.  So maybe this could be red flag after all. I've also been looking into coconut wax as well. 

[Sebleo]

South America is projected to produce more soy than the USA in the next decade. It's soy production growth has been eating away at it's rainforests for years. Killing rainforest, displacing animals and people.  It's just not getting the publicity. Yet. 

Why do I choose palm despite the devastation palm farming caused in the past? The industry is working towards cleaning itself up. And if you are knowledgeable about all wax production, there is not one that is better for the environment than another. 

[Jcandleattic]

17 minutes ago, Sebleo said:

if you are knowledgeable about all wax production, there is not one that is better for the environment than another. 

This. Soo so much this!!! 

[ncraiders]

I have to agree all forms of candle wax have environmental issues concerning them.   The difference is some groups have the money to spend to try and discredit other wax types and the majority of people eat that info up and never stop to think about what issues the other wax types might be causing.

[birdcharm]

4 hours ago, Sebleo said:

South America is projected to produce more soy than the USA in the next decade. It's soy production growth has been eating away at it's rainforests for years. Killing rainforest, displacing animals and people.  It's just not getting the publicity. Yet. 

Why do I choose palm despite the devastation palm farming caused in the past? The industry is working towards cleaning itself up. And if you are knowledgeable about all wax production, there is not one that is better for the environment than another. 

 

Akosoy (Golden Brands) soy is sold to the consumer saying that it is soy that is grown in the U.S., not South America.  Which brands of soy wax that we commonly purchase are not grown in the U.S.?  Of course, I'm not saying our (U.S.) environment is not important or that soy is a "natural" product, as it's certainly not and it has its issues.  But, as far as I know, the soy wax we buy is not being grown where there was once rain forest.  This doesn't make all soy any less damaging, but for crafters in the U.S., I believe the soy products are grown here.  Most likely, as has been stated here before, paraffin might be less damaging since it's a by-product of something already being produced.

 

The comment I'm addressing, "sharing real facts that discredit the negative publicity that surround the palm oil industry" isn't to say that other forms of wax are not guilty of anything, but that palm is certainly not innocent and that the "negative publicity" is not made up stories, but actual conditions that some of us may have concern about and shouldn't be disregarded.

 

 

[Sebleo]

I'm talking about the oil industry as a whole and not wax. All the waxes are by products of oil production. In the same way they don't drill crude oil in order to produce paraffin wax. I think it is less than 3% for both soybean and palm plantations that actually go to wax production.

 

As soy demands rise due to overwhelming popularity, so do the need for soybean farms. Hence American businesses moving to South America. 

Even though you buy soy wax that's made in the USA, the demand for soy is causing deforestation nontheless.

 

So, I guess my point is.... so many people/companies/organizations bash palm for deforestation and use it to persuade people to buy all natural/good for mother earth soy that it needs to be pointed out....yes, there are issues with the palm industry but there are also issues with the soy industry.

 

And, on a side note, approximately 70% of the products in everyone's home has palm oil. From the kitchen to the bathroom. So, avoiding palm in candles, to me, is silly when it's in so many of the products we eat and put on our skin. 

 

In regards to discrediting the negative publicity....they make a valid point. A lot of people still have in their minds images from the 80''s of all the deforestation in Malaysia and Indonesia. Some big strides have been made to correct and prevent deforestation in this part of the world. 

[birdcharm]

Yet, if American crafters are purchasing soy grown in the U.S., it is not the same as supporting palm grown elsewhere.  I agree that both have their issues and I agree that soy wax is not "natural" due to the chemicals that are used on the majority of the crops -- definitely an issue.  It's another reason to look to blends with coconut wax or beeswax for those who wish to somewhat diminish the use of soy.  There are quite a number of people purposely looking for foods, soaps, cosmetics, etc. that do not have palm oil, so it's evident that people understand, at least to some degree, what the demand for this particular oil is causing.  If the demand for soy increases enough to bring more awareness, then probably there will be many who try to avoid it or lessen its usage. 

 

When there is public awareness about an issue, even the smallest bit of support in the direction of making buying decisions makes a difference because if enough people do the same thing, it does make a difference.  A small piece of litter, for instance, doesn't appear to be much, but when everyone litters, just look at what happens to our oceans ... if everyone stopped littering, the problem would diminish ... in other words, every little thing does matter in the grand scale of things since it's all connected. 

 

The images people have in their minds isn't from the 1980's ... it is happening today, we just need to pay more attention to it, and care about it.

 

Quote

In the late 1980s, our area of western Borneo was mostly covered in old-growth rainforest. Gunung Palung was just one small slice of a much larger forest that blanketed the coast and spread inland to Borneo’s interior. But through the 1990s and 2000s, the landscape outside the park was systematically logged, burned, and farmed, replacing rainforest with croplands, plantations, and barren areas. In the past few years especially, huge areas have been converted to industrial oil palm plantations. This rampant development has reduced the park to an isolated island of forest surrounded by a growing sea of cultivation.    source

 

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by birdcharm

[Sebleo]

I agree with most of what you're saying. 

 

And if someone wants to stay away from all palm products that's dandy. It just irks me when people ban the candle products only and have no clue or care as to the vast products they consume daily with palm oil. With less than 3% going to wax...that's not making a dent. And really the USA accounts for a small percentage of word wide palm oil usage.

 

Just like your litter analogy with things being connected...that's how I see the soy industry. The demand is growing and so is the need for farming. While American crafters can say that their specific soy wax did not directly lead to deforestation it is a rising global demand that is causing deforestation. Therefore it is connected.

 

75% of Brazil''s soy comes from illegally deforested land. 70-80% of Indonesia''s palm comes from illegally deforested land.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative or say one wax is better than another.  I would still be using soy wax if the darn PB was still any good!

 

Everyone has to decide what is important to them and where they draw the line. As a crafter and as a consumer. 

 

Anecdote... I don't want to contribute to conflict diamonds. Some people who feel the way I do choose to buy conflict free diamonds. I choose not to buy diamonds or gemstones at all. 

 

 

 

 

 

[TallTayl]

Here is the thing... if the global demand for palm stopped completely today, what do you think would happen to the palm plantations? Would they suddenly go fallow? 

 

The underlying problem in the areas where palm grows is poverty. People need to eat. The palm farm owners need money to feed their families. If nobody were to ever buy palm again as of this moment, soy would be planted (or whatever is in demand at the time). 

 

Palm is much more economical to grow than soy. It produces more per hectare through longer seasons and more harvests per year. Palm has not yet been bought up by the big ag corps and turned GMO. It does not (seem) to require as much pesticide or herbicide or water as soy. Soy farmers living near me are dying from really horrible diseases from herbicide exposure. 

 

I seriously sly doubt that all of the soy wax we buy is traceable “only” to the US. The beans, when harvested, get dumped into a collective hopper and shipped away off shore for processing with beans from other countries. 

 

Sugarcane is equally bad, but we’re turning a blind eye to the green algae bloom from plantation runoff.  Both coasts of Florida are dead or dying from it. Where is our collective outrage? 

[se2653]

I would be interested in this course- where can we access it?  Thanks for sharing your knowledge- love this forum!

[Sebleo]

1 hour ago, TallTayl said:

Here is the thing... if the global demand for palm stopped completely today, what do you think would happen to the palm plantations? Would they suddenly go fallow? 

 

The underlying problem in the areas where palm grows is poverty. People need to eat. The palm farm owners need money to feed their families. If nobody were to ever buy palm again as of this moment, soy would be planted (or whatever is in demand at the time). 

 

Palm is much more economical to grow than soy. It produces more per hectare through longer seasons and more harvests per year. Palm has not yet been bought up by the big ag corps and turned GMO. It does not (seem) to require as much pesticide or herbicide or water as soy. Soy farmers living near me are dying from really horrible diseases from herbicide exposure. 

 

I seriously sly doubt that all of the soy wax we buy is traceable “only” to the US. The beans, when harvested, get dumped into a collective hopper and shipped away off shore for processing with beans from other countries. 

 

Sugarcane is equally bad, but we’re turning a blind eye to the green algae bloom from plantation runoff.  Both coasts of Florida are dead or dying from it. Where is our collective outrage? 

 

You made some great points. Don't even get me started on sugar!

[TallTayl]

The whole topic is a grenade. There is no right answer. Heck, depending on what you read or who you listen to, scented products of any kind should be banned. California is leading the parade for VOC in products. 

 

Factory farming of all types is destructive no matter how you look at it. We need to choose the position that feels best to us personally. Market our product by its merits versus the competition’s shortcomings. 

 

Heck i dislike single use plastic, yet here I am selling my melts in plastic clamshells as it is best suited to protecting and presenting the product. I feel like a huge hypocrite sometimes. 

[Sebleo]

I agree. And the only reason I responded was someone posed a question as to why people still use palm. Just wanted to offer up the comparison, like you said, factory farming is destructive.

 

I feel the same way about clamshells. I just bought 2 more cases...over 1500 and so far I'm selling more individual tarts and 1 lb bags. But, I'm still in my first year so I will see how it goes. It would be nice to drop those though.

[TallTayl]

Wishing I could find something that would hold up in my outdoor Faire as well as those clams. 😢

[ScentedPleasurez]

On 8/28/2018 at 12:02 PM, Sebleo said:

And the only reason I responded was someone posed a question as to why people still use palm

I did not pose a question as to why so many still used palm, what i said was a statement of my own opinion and i said that i was surprised that so many still use it. 

I made candles for numerous years before leaving for awhile due to surgery. I am very knowledgeable of different waxes and their claims. 

I do not bash anyone for their choice of wax that they prefer to each their own. Regardless of how you or myself feel about the pros and cons of this or that wax it will still be used. I will not use it, 80% deforestation or whatever the percentage is currently will take years to regrow, i will not see it in my lifetime. 

I applaud candle science for no longer carrying the product. 

 

[birdcharm]

43 minutes ago, ScentedPleasurez said:

....  I applaud candle science for no longer carrying the product. 

 

 

It was very interesting to me to see their page about this topic, I also applaud them for doing what they feel is right by their beliefs in what they choose to support or not support.  I've read stories about the RSPO program not being capable of making sure there aren't labor abuses or environmental concerns.  So the certification doesn't necessarily mean everything is okay.  I saw a story about how the women on the plantations are working, esp. in terms of hand-spraying chemicals.  These kinds of things, for whatever reasons, have usually always swayed my decisions about things, and being a candle maker with choices to make about the waxes to use is no different.  It's difficult because all waxes have their "pros and cons" as you say, I guess we just have to weigh them out.

 

Here's are a couple of excerpts from an article I read, I thought it was interesting, so I'm going to post it.

"To offset the toxic effects of pesticide exposure, Musim Mas, the company that owned the plantation where Sari worked, gave employees who handled chemicals milk or pudding. “They told us that it was to help us detoxify,” Sari said.  There’s no evidence that milk could mitigate the effects of exposure to toxic pesticides." 

 

At least the RSPO is trying to address the issues ...

"When she started on the plantation in the ’90s, she did not get masks or gloves to protect her as she handled the chemicals. Now, however, her employer is a RSPO member and has started providing workers with protective equipment."

 

Article

"Indonesian Women Risk Health to Supply Palm Oil to the West" - April 19, 2017

 

 

 

[ScentedPleasurez]

@birdcharm thank you for sharing!  

 

Some would turn and look the other way for the almighty dollar.

 

Im sure it Will be like whats going on with monsanto now

 

[ncraiders]

It is sad that most of the main waxes used for candles all cause some form of environmental damage as well as loss of habitats for certain plants and animals.  It is also sad that no matter what your thinking is on the different waxes it really won't have an effect on that main resources growth and sales.  Even if none bought more of that wax it really would not matter in the end due to the fact that only a small percentage of that resource is going to wax.  There are so many products on the market that carry some form of byproduct from oil, soybeans, and palm that the waxes really aren't gonna effect it all that much one way or another.  Probably the least effecting wax is beeswax.  tho i imagine there are some issues with that wax as well as far as how it is collected.  I for one respect every ones choices on why they choose wax a over wax b and c.  Cause like others have said we all look at  the possible pros and cons and choose the one we feel works best or the one we think is least effecting natural environments.

[Jcandleattic]

Very well said @ncraiders

[MichelleinMD]

For those who have been brining up the topic of some suppliers poo-pooing the industry and such - this is why I cover this topic in the course.  The statements from Candlescience for example, is 10 years old and their claims are NOT based on factual evidence.  This is where my journey in learning more about palm wax began, but I wanted to see both sides of the story.  I tried to find the sources of the claims and couldn't.  I did learn about the RSPO, MPOC.org and others that is where you should look for real info on the industry because it is from the industry.  You wouldn't use resources like the National Enquirer for facts about cancer because one article talked about a celebrity who battled cancer and won due to a special diet, would you?  Then why put all your faith in one article that says "palm oil is bad"?  

 

The course covers so much including one tip such as  going directly to suppliers and ask for certifications and letters of authenticity to ensure the wax they sell you and they obtain is truly sustainable. It works as I did this on my own with my American supplier and have the letter of authenticity with the proof to show it is sustainably grown, obtained and sourced and refined.  It's piece of mind for me, but also speaks volumes with my customers - both retail and wholesale.  Another aspect the course covers, what other articles don't cover, is about the growth and lifecycle of palm trees and how no endangered animals are harmed because it is just the fruit that is harvested.  No negative article will tell you that the palm trees are planted on previously logged land - already designated for agriculture - that grew rubber and other tropical woods used for furniture and such yet left fallow with no other industry coming in to re-establish the forests that were reaped of it's benefits.  There are 15 different harsh laws in place to for the protection the environment and endangered animals too.  To even have a palm oil plantation you have to grow through a ton of regulations and certifications to just get started - I do not see the same for soy and other waxes.  Also, palm oil trees are set up on plantations that are essentially rainforests allowing for natural fauna and wild life to roam freely - without the use or need of harsh chemicals like pesticides, because the natural eco-system already takes care of it.    I want people who have heard of palm wax to really know there are two sides to the negative allegations and you would be surprised if folks are open minded to the facts than the false propaganda - that do not site sources or studies backing up their claims.  I have been heavily involved with the education of palm oil for 10 years of research backing up the truth with resources, articles, studies and so on.   Again, the course covers this information and if anyone has any interest in anything palm related you should check it out....  

 

 

[MichelleinMD]

On 8/27/2018 at 6:32 PM, birdcharm said:

 

Akosoy (Golden Brands) soy is sold to the consumer saying that it is soy that is grown in the U.S., not South America.  Which brands of soy wax that we commonly purchase are not grown in the U.S.?  Of course, I'm not saying our (U.S.) environment is not important or that soy is a "natural" product, as it's certainly not and it has its issues.  But, as far as I know, the soy wax we buy is not being grown where there was once rain forest.  This doesn't make all soy any less damaging, but for crafters in the U.S., I believe the soy products are grown here.  Most likely, as has been stated here before, paraffin might be less damaging since it's a by-product of something already being produced.

 

The comment I'm addressing, "sharing real facts that discredit the negative publicity that surround the palm oil industry" isn't to say that other forms of wax are not guilty of anything, but that palm is certainly not innocent and that the "negative publicity" is not made up stories, but actual conditions that some of us may have concern about and shouldn't be disregarded.

 

 

Birdcharm....  You should check out this article....  There's two sides to every story and this article says it better than I ever can.  https://www.researchgate.net/publication/290605611_The_Danger_of_a_Single_Story_The_Malaysian_Oil_Palm_Plantations_Deforestation_and_the_Incorrect_Pro-Sustainability_Narratives