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Sponiebr

Help with gilding a lily....

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So, first... It seems as though I may be back... So that's a good thing, (well, for me, it's a good thing, yanno, for me...) 

Second, as embarrassed as I am to say this, I am woefully ignorant of gilding methods. 
I have not a lily to gild but I DO have a dress sword that I have to "freshen-up" a bit in silver... 
Specifically I have to re-gild the hilt, pommel and the scabbard accents and frog.... And it's gotta be in silver apparently. And... Silver tarnishes... but it's gotta be silver...  

Soooo.... I have 25 3x3" sheets of transfer type real silver leaf. I have the sword... I also should be able to locate various sable and other very soft bristled brushes to pounce and otherwise apply the leafing into all those crazy little nooks and crannies... (Sounds like a bad porno plot...) 

I really don't have any concept as to what I should use as the sizing, but I was thinking about maybe making up some spirit gum and using that? Maybe Elmer's rubber cement? Really thin PVA? PVA and spirit gum? Varnish with some Japan Drier? I mentioned this above,  but silver TARNISHES... What sort of insane handling requirements are there when leafing with real silver? I would like this to have a shiny finish when done, but really anything would be better than the corroded mess I'm working with now (it's not really that bad, but still there's gonna be some time spent cleaning it up.) 

No clue... That's why I'm here. 

Any help would be appreciated! 

Cheers, 

Sponiebr
The Executor of Bad Ideas and Sundry Services

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3 hours ago, franu61 said:

can't help you, but glad to you're back  :)

That's ok. TBH: nobody can help me... I think I'm a registered lost cause. 

(Or I'm lost because I'm registered... I get this confused a lot...) 


Good to be back though!   

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14 hours ago, coconut said:

Welcome back! Why does it have to be real silver?

 
Thank you for the welcome Coconut...

Why does it have to be real silver? 

:confused:

I dunno... It makes it more... effective... at dispatching werewolves?  

It's a Templar sword so it's fairly ornate, and it's hard to get into all the little nooks and crannies. 

I played with a couple of sheets of silver and used weldwood contact cement, which by the by, AIN'T GONNA work. Apparently the leafing is fairly porous and when wiped with a little naphtha to make sure it was grease free to prepare it for some spray on lacquer the foil and cement wiped off! 

Next on my list is really thinned out Elmer's White glue... 

THEN my next step if that doesn't work is: 

(fanfare) 

Krylon Chrome spray paint 'cause: 

tenor.gif?itemid=4582989
 

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I can't help but I'm sure there are at least 150 bad you tube videos on how to do this??

 

Edited by kandlekrazy

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8 hours ago, LittleMissSunshine said:

Wow do you make real swords? That is so awesome! Unless I completely misunderstood lol.

No... I lack the tools. More specifically I lack the LARGE amounts of money it takes to buy the tools, the steel, and the fuel to run the forge... I can't even afford a large hunk of mild steel to use as an anvil... It's EXPENSIVE. Otherwise I'd TOTALLY be out there bang'n out swords and knives left, right, and center... 

One of these days... 

19 hours ago, kandlekrazy said:

I can't help but I'm sure there are at least 150 bad you tube videos on how to do this??

 

Yeah, and they all say use "the special adhesive". Some have been so bold as to explain that ONE of the adhesives is an oil varnish, (I suspect with Japan Drier in it), but that's about as good as I can find. 

I went by Michael's and they had metal leaf out the WAZZOO!  But they did not have any of the "special adhesive" AND (oh this is SO TYPICAL of any store in my County) because they didn't have a "spot" for the adhesive they would NOT order nor would they stock it. 

The sales woman stated I was the 3rd person that week who had asked for it. 

I said  (and I quote) "Well, that's completely WORTHLESS!" 

Sales girl (and I quote) "Yeah. Sorry..." (turned on her heel and walked off.) 


(sighs) My local Walmart won't even order clipboards... I swear if you ask a major retail chain (NOT PUBLIX, Publix is WONDERFUL) in my County to get a product they normally carry,  I SWEAR they turn around and remove it from the inventory so it can't be ordered even by mistake. You will truly NEVER see it in the store EVER again. 

I honestly think that Flagler County is a corporate test bed for customer loyalty on how bad you can actually treat a customer before they end up leaving the store permanently and/or suing the store/chain.  

Krylon's looking better and better... 


;)

Sponiebr 

(You know what I'm in charge of and what I do...) 



 

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You probably have to go mail order. We once bought a gold leaf kit and it included that special glue. But real swords are not made of silver and would probably rust not tarnish? Krylon may be a good bet!

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Michaels has a product called Mona Lisa Metal Leaf Adhesive. You can find it on their site. It becomes tacky after application and stays tacky for two days. It is water based, so I don't know if it will rust the sword.

 

Michaels also offers an acrylic spray sealer - Speedball Mona Lisa Metal Leaf Spray Sealer, Clear (whew, that's a lot to say).

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On 4/11/2018 at 5:00 AM, coconut said:

You probably have to go mail order. We once bought a gold leaf kit and it included that special glue. But real swords are not made of silver and would probably rust not tarnish? Krylon may be a good bet!


I'd really just LOVE to avoid that whole additional cost thing BUT, I learned that the sword is an antique circa 1880-1920 and it's actually a really nice sword so I'm MUCH less likely now to just go spray painting all willy-nilly. The leafing is only for the hilt (cross guard) and the pommel and those appear to be some sort of cast yellow metal maybe brass or some sort of light weight bronze, not really sure...  
 

 

18 hours ago, Kerven said:

Michaels has a product called Mona Lisa Metal Leaf Adhesive. You can find it on their site. It becomes tacky after application and stays tacky for two days. It is water based, so I don't know if it will rust the sword.

 

Michaels also offers an acrylic spray sealer - Speedball Mona Lisa Metal Leaf Spray Sealer, Clear (whew, that's a lot to say).



Yeah, that's where I went because Michael's is supposed to carry both of those items. However, the LOCAL store manager WILL NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE take a duplicate "peg" down to add a product that the store would normally carry. 

I spent time in Post Soviet Russia just after the collapse and I am VERY familiar with the concept of a store shelves stocked as far as the eye can see with 2 brands of products. E.G. pasta "aisle/section/department" (it's hard to describe but trust me it was a massive PITA) stocked with elbow mac in unmarked plastic produce sacks, OR elbow mac in these super low quality spirit duplicator printed chipboard boxes. The other choice was rigatoni in unmarked plastic bags. Cooking oil? 3 brands of identical plastic bottles with different colored same sized labels for sunflower oil. (no... no, no, no  olive oil, no corn oil) THAT IS IT. That was your selection. That was your selection EVERYWHERE. Honestly it was fine, because EVERYBODY had this in stock at ALL TIMES (y'know except when there was a financial crisis and the ruble fell out and then you couldn't buy ANY non-perishable foods ANYWHERE).    

I SWEAR the major store chains in my county are run just about the same way as Post Soviet Russia. 20 pegs at Walmart of identical items, with identical prices, identical SKU's, and USUALLY identical levels of stock, --- all out of stock, NEVER to return, never to be ordered again, and NEVER to be removed. 

Y'know, I REALLY should suss out some sort of method of recording my trips to these stores so that people can actually see the surreal nightmare of the Flagler County shopping experience.


@Kerven if you have some of this adhesive could you describe this stuff for me? What does it smell like (solvents? what kind e.g. smells like Kerosene or like spray paint?)  What does it feel like? (maybe you already know what it is?)  


Thanks for the suggestions folks! 

Cheers, 
Sponiebr

The Executor of Bad Ideas, BAD attitudes, endless rants on non-Sequitur subjects, and other non-sense as needed. 

 

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Only tried gilding with metal leaf once (ornaments) and used some sort of general craft adhesive spray and a glossy enamel spray... it wasn't fun - complete mess. No experience with the acrylic spray, although, I have used the Rust-oleum clear enamel on iron planters to stop rusting and acrylic floor sealer (dries as hard as resin - a permanent addition to my countertop now... oops) on other things. Wouldn't suggest using those on an antique piece, however, considering how difficult they are to remove. Your question made me curious, so I fell down another rabbit hole and that acrylic spray and adhesive was what I found.

 

Did they at least offer to special order the item from the site and have it shipped to the store for pickup? Come to think of it, I'm not sure Michaels does that... I need to find out. Too many times I've needed an item or two and didn't want to pay more in shipping than for the item.

 

 

Edited by Kerven
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If you have an antique sword I would not do anything to it. You will probably hurt the value of it.

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