TallTayl Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 @birdcharm Oreos changes are likely more to do with being made in Mexico than just the more recent trans fat issues. The flavors changed quite a long time ago, right around when the lines made the move. Since going low carb I no longer eat them, and with your observations that they are not as good I won’t miss them 🤣 Every chocolate product has changed in response to costs. cocoa butter has been replaced with palm oils, etc. you get the drift. Hershey bars are gag worthy. Crunch bars taste disgusting with that odd mouth feel of fake chocolate-like ingredients. We can look at ingredient lists on packaged food items to see changes as the laws for food are pretty specific. Not so with our waxes. The recipes for wax sure seem to have changed, possibly because of costs, possibly because of other things. Wax Manufacturers claim nothing in their processes have changed. Could be the engineered beans themselves for all we know. They have a few lab tests for insignificant things like color and needle penetration. None for burn characteristics. All all I do know is the soy waxes all blow and we are being told the wax is not the problem. I am tired of being lied to. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerven Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 @TallTayl A bit off topic but since you mentioned engineered soybeans... I have wondered if some of the pesticides and herbicides applied to them might find their way into soy waxes, since the oils destined for hydrogenation aren't going into the food industry (as much as before). Maybe that has something to do with the performance issues we're seeing? Monsanto released a double resistant soybean in 2016. 2017 saw approximately 20 million acres planted. 2018 is estimated to be at least 40 million acres. The plant is resistant to both glyphosate and dicamba. It just so happens that dicamba is volatile but a less volatile version was developed and approved in 2016. That's around the same time we started seeing burn and throw issues with soy wax. Coincidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 @Kerven that is as good a reason as any. If the beans changed that would explain an awful lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMissSunshine Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I have been having this thought a lot lately, and this thread only makes me feel it even stronger.....if soy is so bad/frustrating/poor quality/etc. then is 6006/parasoy even worth it? Even with a little bit of soy? Wouldn't pure paraffin just be better? What reasons would you have for doing parasoy at all over just pure paraffin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeana Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, LittleMissSunshine said: I have been having this thought a lot lately, and this thread only makes me feel it even stronger.....if soy is so bad/frustrating/poor quality/etc. then is 6006/parasoy even worth it? Even with a little bit of soy? Wouldn't pure paraffin just be better? What reasons would you have for doing parasoy at all over just pure paraffin? That's why I started this topic to hear what people have to say about some paraffins on their own. I know I see smooth creamy paraffin candles in stores all the time. I have played with various types of it before. All the ones I've tried are hard, and don't look any better than soy. They seem hazy where they have pulled away from the glass, which doesn't look too different from frost on soy. The ones I've tried don't crack though so that seems like a bonus. But that's why I've alway turned back to soy or soy blends. I also started this topic to see if Paraffins have the same trouble with varied batches. Does anyone use 4730 by itself? I haven't tried that one alone. Edited March 17, 2018 by Jeana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdcharm Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 7 hours ago, Kerven said: That's around the time I got a horrible shipment of wax as well. Problems started for me sometime around September when I ran out of some older wax I had from Peak and Candlewic and had to order more. It was from Candlewic and didn't perform quite as well but @birdcharm 's fix remedied that. Ran out of wax again a week or two before Christmas and ordered from Candlescience, which put me right back at square one during a vital time. Still a little bitter about that. I'm glad that worked out for you, at least for a while ... I just want to say that it was originally the advice of Moonshine that inspired me to go in the direction of additives, which I had been doing previously, but had stopped doing so until things changed a bit. The addition of a little stearic acid has been working for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdcharm Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 6 hours ago, TallTayl said: Since going low carb I no longer eat them, and with your observations that they are not as good I won’t miss them 🤣 Funny, I don't buy them, but hubby brought some home and since I hadn't had any in many years, I could really tell it wasn't the same ... my thought was that a Hydrox cookie would be better if I wanted that type of cookie. I know what you mean about the candy bars, Hershey's Special Dark is nothing like it was, which used to my favorite. I have an old set of refrigerator magnets that look like the old mini candy bars, one of which is that type, at least I have that, lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandlekrazy Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 It's all just plain sad! The inconsistencies are real, they do exist across the board with soy waxes and it's horrible that seasoned chandlers are scrambling after a year to find a good soy wax or soy wax blend. I'm personally sick of testing every batch I buy, I haven't been lucky enough to get the same lot twice and I can only buy 100-200 #'s at a time. I just gave away every candle I made to test because I'm not happy with the results from the first 4 I tried. Thank God for melts or I'd be out of this business yesterday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 so after almost a year - my 2 whacked out cases of 415 I have left that I left partially opened I made a few candles with various additives and some with none and it's still not what it was but it is better....still not going back but kinda proves some of the moisture issues they supposedly had with equipment failures and the fact that they couldn't produce fast enough for all the ecosoya people that were buying up whatever they could since they couldn't buy anything at all for a long time - I don't think soy is ever going to be the same again with new regulations in place but it can be worked with ....my issue is I know what it "could" be and it's not good enough for me - and on top of it I'm nit testing every lot that comes in because I'm so anal about all that EVERY fragrance would have to be tested also and that is just not practical it's so sad burning my old tester jars with the good stuff but it will be okay- this has forced me to revamp my branding and my whole line and I'm actually pretty excited about launching a new blend 👏👏 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdcharm Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) On 3/15/2018 at 9:13 AM, Trappeur said: To me that looks like your house might be a little too chilly, but then you said it was 75 in it? Hmmmmm I use 464 and that happens to me if the air is cool. It sure looks like a surface crack to me. Pouring at 150 give or take works for me. What temperature do you pour at? Trappeur I'm still curious about this question as well, and I too have asked, so I'm hoping @Jeana will tell us at what temperature this wax is cracking so we all know what temps to avoid. I've still been pouring my wax from last fall at 140-150 and haven't experienced any issues with it, so I'm wondering if this is now something to be concerned with in purchasing newer stock. Also, I've never had 464 ( 5702-02-02 ) frost, even after burn sessions, it rarely does so, although I have had 415 ( 5715-00-77) and 444 (5715-02-02) do that a bit after burning the candle. Jeana ... at what temperature did you pour the candles that experienced cracking? P.S. I'd like to add that I really don't think frosting is so bad, kind of like the wet spots, it's just part of what this stuff is, I guess. Edited March 17, 2018 by birdcharm to add P.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Black Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 16 hours ago, LittleMissSunshine said: I have been having this thought a lot lately, and this thread only makes me feel it even stronger.....if soy is so bad/frustrating/poor quality/etc. then is 6006/parasoy even worth it? Even with a little bit of soy? Wouldn't pure paraffin just be better? What reasons would you have for doing parasoy at all over just pure paraffin? I have only been testing 6006 for about a week now so take whatever I say next as just that. But immediatly I notice my whole house filling up again with scent. Not just the room im burning in, but upstairs too. And I am only curing for a day. A DAY! 24 hours and im burning. It honestly doesnt matter what I do, it seems I cant mess up the pour with this wax. I do have slight, and I mean SLIGHT dips near the wick. But they arent top to bottom like they were with soy. Im almost tempted to start doing a two pour style to get a nice even top. But the scent throw...my god. I use 7% FO usually, and it seems like a real nice sweet spot so far. Biggest issue is wicking. What I was using in the same jar for my 444 wax, is no where the same for this 6006. So im having to swap wicks out and gradually wick up each test. The way this stuff burns is more downwards than traditional side to side melt pool. Meaning, my mp is deeper than normal and im not getting that touching the sides melt pool I want yet. Of course, im still in the top 1/3 of the jar so time will tell I guess Take this how you will, but so far after a week im dumbfounded as to why I let myself struggle with soy for so long. Kudos to others who make it work for them really, hats of to you folks. I just think Im done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Black Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 16 hours ago, LittleMissSunshine said: I have been having this thought a lot lately, and this thread only makes me feel it even stronger.....if soy is so bad/frustrating/poor quality/etc. then is 6006/parasoy even worth it? Even with a little bit of soy? Wouldn't pure paraffin just be better? What reasons would you have for doing parasoy at all over just pure paraffin? And just to add to that, there may well be a 100% paraffin wax that is better, it just seems that all the paraffin waxes I test seem to soot too much for my tastes, even with proper wicking. I havnt tried them all mind you, but the ones I have tried I ended up making blends of soy anyways. So I figured it would be easier to just use a pre-blended parasoy this way I can use one melter and not have to keep two melters going at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 What wick style are you using in 6006 Clear Black? Wow it's about double 464 in price...For me selling wholesale, I could never up my prices to the shops.... You know I hate to put this out there after so much discussion is going on about all these waxes and the problems that everyone is having and so many switching to other waxes but I have upped my percentage of oils to 1.2 or 1.3 oz per pound of wax and I am having just wonderful luck (knock on wood) with awesome throws.....I'm absorbing this extra cost of goods for right now as I can't possibly change my wholesale pricing...well, not right now. Trappeur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Black Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Trappeur said: What wick style are you using in 6006 Clear Black? Wow it's about double 464 in price...For me selling wholesale, I could never up my prices to the shops.... You know I hate to put this out there after so much discussion is going on about all these waxes and the problems that everyone is having and so many switching to other waxes but I have upped my percentage of oils to 1.2 or 1.3 oz per pound of wax and I am having just wonderful luck (knock on wood) with awesome throws.....I'm absorbing this extra cost of goods for right now as I can't possibly change my wholesale pricing...well, not right now. Trappeur With the 6006 im testing woodwicks Trap. If I need to go to a traditional wick I will, but so far the wood ones are working. My problems with woodwicks tend to be in the bottom portion of the candle where the heat gets higher and the woodwicks throw this black gunk into the wax from the wick. No idea what it is but since the first day I tried wooden wicks its done this. Im trying a thicker gauge wood this time around, maybe it will behave better who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Black Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Trap, at wholesale or pallet rate pricing at Candle Science 464 is $1.06/lb and 6006 is $1.50/lb so for $.44/lb more I think you could re-work your pricing to make it work? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 8 hours ago, Clear Black said: With the 6006 im testing woodwicks Trap. If I need to go to a traditional wick I will, but so far the wood ones are working. My problems with woodwicks tend to be in the bottom portion of the candle where the heat gets higher and the woodwicks throw this black gunk into the wax from the wick. No idea what it is but since the first day I tried wooden wicks its done this. Im trying a thicker gauge wood this time around, maybe it will behave better who knows. Oh gosh I know what your talking about Clear Black. Once I bought a candle like what your making and the exact thing happened to me....when I lit the candle all this black gunk flew all over the candle and turned the top somewhat black and very nasty looking. Actually as the candle was burning it spit out that black stuff in intervals. I threw out the candle afterwards. Sorry can't give any advice.... Trappeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trappeur Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 7 hours ago, Clear Black said: Trap, at wholesale or pallet rate pricing at Candle Science 464 is $1.06/lb and 6006 is $1.50/lb so for $.44/lb more I think you could re-work your pricing to make it work? Hmmmm...I'm going to refigure pricing again Clear Black...Maybe I made a mistake....Wouldn't be the first time. Thanks! Trappeur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Black Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 8 hours ago, Trappeur said: Hmmmm...I'm going to refigure pricing again Clear Black...Maybe I made a mistake....Wouldn't be the first time. Thanks! Trappeur Anytime! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeana Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 On 3/17/2018 at 8:38 AM, birdcharm said: I'm still curious about this question as well, and I too have asked, so I'm hoping @Jeana will tell us at what temperature this wax is cracking so we all know what temps to avoid. I've still been pouring my wax from last fall at 140-150 and haven't experienced any issues with it, so I'm wondering if this is now something to be concerned with in purchasing newer stock. Also, I've never had 464 ( 5702-02-02 ) frost, even after burn sessions, it rarely does so, although I have had 415 ( 5715-00-77) and 444 (5715-02-02) do that a bit after burning the candle. Jeana ... at what temperature did you pour the candles that experienced cracking? P.S. I'd like to add that I really don't think frosting is so bad, kind of like the wet spots, it's just part of what this stuff is, I guess. This is a layered candle. The bottom part was poured about 175-185, I always pour the colored part this hot or hotter. I' don't check the temp every time I pour. The top part (the part in the pic) was poured no hotter than 135. The next set I poured I did the tops even cooler, like around 125. I still had lots of cracks around the sides. I was able to repair them, but took more time than should have to finish the order. My shop was still around 70-75 for the next set of candles too. I ran a test on one of these latest candles and they are burning hotter. That is frustrating too. So not only am I getting the visual issues of the wax, now I see it is burning differently too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 I get cracks in upper layers too. The rest of the candle is too cold and the melted top wax cracks as it cools rapidly. Happens when I do a second pour to level or repair caverns often when the temps are cold in the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeana Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) On 3/17/2018 at 11:36 AM, Trappeur said: What wick style are you using in 6006 Clear Black? Wow it's about double 464 in price...For me selling wholesale, I could never up my prices to the shops.... You know I hate to put this out there after so much discussion is going on about all these waxes and the problems that everyone is having and so many switching to other waxes but I have upped my percentage of oils to 1.2 or 1.3 oz per pound of wax and I am having just wonderful luck (knock on wood) with awesome throws.....I'm absorbing this extra cost of goods for right now as I can't possibly change my wholesale pricing...well, not right now. Trappeur Depending on the price of your FO, and how much your are increasing it, it can add up to an additional .20 to each candle, or more. If I switch over completely to one of my easier to get Paraffins it will be .31 per candle more. That's not much different. Don't you have to retest everything when you are adding more FO anyway? I just started playing with 4630 because I have it on hand, and I have used it for years to mix with 464. I have rarely seen consistency issues with it over the years. Right away I noticed the throw puts my soy candles to shame . If I switch over there wouldn't be problems with frosting, cracking, or varying batches of wax. I feel this would be worth the .31 more per candle. Edited March 19, 2018 by Jeana 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeana Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 27 minutes ago, TallTayl said: I get cracks in upper layers too. The rest of the candle is too cold and the melted top wax cracks as it cools rapidly. Happens when I do a second pour to level or repair caverns often when the temps are cold in the shop. I don't think that 70-75 is cold really. Last year it was way colder in my shop than this year. The room temp would be around 60-65 and I didn't have any cracks on the top or the bottom layers. I just pulled a tester from the order I just made and it is burning hotter than it should be. It's not enough to wick down, but I just hope people are trimming their candles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMissSunshine Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 On 3/17/2018 at 11:58 AM, Clear Black said: I have only been testing 6006 for about a week now so take whatever I say next as just that. But immediatly I notice my whole house filling up again with scent. Not just the room im burning in, but upstairs too. And I am only curing for a day. A DAY! 24 hours and im burning. It honestly doesnt matter what I do, it seems I cant mess up the pour with this wax. I do have slight, and I mean SLIGHT dips near the wick. But they arent top to bottom like they were with soy. Im almost tempted to start doing a two pour style to get a nice even top. But the scent throw...my god. I use 7% FO usually, and it seems like a real nice sweet spot so far. Take this how you will, but so far after a week im dumbfounded as to why I let myself struggle with soy for so long. Kudos to others who make it work for them really, hats of to you folks. I just think Im done. So glad to hear you say this, because I just ordered 60lbs of 6006! So excited to try it. I've heard great things. And I completely agree with your sentiment. I am so excited to move on away from pure soy. I'll be trying CD wicks for now, and possibly zinc depending on how the CD's perform. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 18 hours ago, Jeana said: I don't think that 70-75 is cold really. Last year it was way colder in my shop than this year. The room temp would be around 60-65 and I didn't have any cracks on the top or the bottom layers. I just pulled a tester from the order I just made and it is burning hotter than it should be. It's not enough to wick down, but I just hope people are trimming their candles It’s not just the ambient temp. The rest of the wax in the container is cold by comparison, which speeds the cooling of the new layer. Simple physics. Especially given the nature of the newer soy lots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeana Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, TallTayl said: It’s not just the ambient temp. The rest of the wax in the container is cold by comparison, which speeds the cooling of the new layer. Simple physics. Especially given the nature of the newer soy lots. I understand that the upper layer cools faster anyway. But I was also talking about the cracks in the lower part of the candle. Everyone has been saying it's caused by room temps being too cool. I'm just pointing out it's not really cool, its normal. So outside influence isn't the problem. Another reason I mentioned ambient temps was because you stated in your comment your layered top cracking was related to your shop being cold. Edited March 19, 2018 by Jeana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.